[Penguin]

A complete neurological exam can't be performed just by looking at a videotape. As a physician, Frist knows this, even if he is a cardiologist and not a neurologist. For him to say what he did is absurd.

What about the "fake" subpoena Congress issued for Schiavo last week, even more ridiculous than the hasty law they just passed. Their reasoning was that she had to be kept alive so that she could answer the subpoena, and that anyone who interfered (removed her feeding tube) could be prosecuted. A woman in a persistent vegetative state on a feeding tube was summoned to testify before Congress. I find all of these maneuvers to be misuse and abuse of legislative powers.

Don't they have better things to do? Shouldn't they be voting to open ANWR up for oil drilling or something. Oh, wait...

One federal court already refused to order the feeding tube reinserted. I wonder what the next wacky government intervention will be if the appeals court does the same.

The spouse's decision should be final. I respect Terry's family's hopes and religious beliefs, but it's simply not their decision to make.

[Michelle]

I'm confused now, it said on CNN that her parents have filed for an appeal in Atlanta, they live in Florida, can you just file appeals in a different state if you like?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Michelle

I'm confused now, it said on CNN that her parents have filed for an appeal in Atlanta, they live in Florida, can you just file appeals in a different state if you like?

It not in the Florida state courts anymore. It's now a federal case and it has to be appealed to the 11th. Circuit, which is in Atlanta.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Ninong

It not in the Florida state courts anymore. It's now a federal case and it has to be appealed to the 11th. Circuit, which is in Atlanta.

Thanks for clearing that up for me George, it was confusing. I feel for her parents, but I honestly feel they are fighting a losing battle

[Ninong]

This will probably continue to play out in the federal courts for the next few days. Assuming they are turned down by the 11th. Circuit Court of Appeals, I believe it would then go to Justice Kennedy. He may get the other justices involved at that point or he may reject their appeal himself. It would probably be better if the entire Supreme Court got involved but who knows if that will happen.

The constitutional issue that has been raised by the passage of this statute needs to be resolved sooner or later and the sooner the better. Rather than just reject her parents' appeal, I think the Supreme Court should rule on the constitutionality of the statute itself.

[Reefland]

Ok so I don't have CNN in front of me; what is the status of the feeding tube right now, in or out?

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Ok so I don't have CNN in front of me; what is the status of the feeding tube right now, in or out?

It is still out at this point.

[Reefland]

And how long does it take before someone that is getting no liquids to dehydrate? Can't take too long right?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefland

And how long does it take before someone that is getting no liquids to dehydrate? Can't take too long right?

Scott,

You can find a detailed answer here.

[Reefland]

I guess since she's in a totally vegetative state she wouldn't even know that she's hungry, I couldn't imagine going without food though. Shoot I'm hungry now!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefland

I guess since she's in a totally vegetative state she wouldn't even know that she's hungry...

She has no cognitive function whatsoever according to the diagnosis of all of the court-appointed doctors and all of the doctors hired by her husband. Her parents have found doctors whose opinions differ from the opinions of the court-appointed doctors.

Dr. Frist, who is running for the Republican nomination for President in 2008, has publicly stated that he has reviewed the home video from 2001 that was supplied by her parents and it is his professional diagnosis as a medical doctor (a cardiologist, not a neurologist) that her eye movements are indicative of cognitive awareness. It is truly amazing that a cardiologist, after viewing videotape, would contradict the diagnosis given by court-appointed neurologists who have actually examined her. They have replied that her eye movements are typical of a persistent vegetative state and do not indicate cognitive awareness.

However, this is not the first time Dr. Frist has made some incredible statements that seemed designed to pander to the religious right-wing of his party. Senator Frist, who insists on being addressed as Dr. Frist, was questioned in December 2004 by ABC's George Stephanopolous about inaccuracies in many abstinence-only sex education curricula that were brought to light by California Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman. Asked whether "tears and sweat can transmit HIV," Frist first said, "I don't know." Then later said, "You can get the virus in tears and sweat. But in terms of the degree of infecting somebody, it would be very hard."

The Centers for Disease Control website says, "Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV," though it does say, "HIV has been found in saliva and tears in very low quantities from some AIDS patients." It is never present in sweat.

Frist also asserted that condoms have a "15 percent failure rate." When used properly, the failure rate is actually, at worst, only between 2 and 3 percent.

The American Medical Association's Code of Medical Ethics requires doctors to "be honest in all professional interactions" and "make relevant information available to the public."

Dr. Frist has proven himself time and time again to be very reluctant to say anything that would upset the "pro-life base" of his party.

Declaring that the HIV virus can be transmitted in sweat when he knows that's not true is bad enough but to publicly contradict the diagnosis of the many neurologists who have declared Terri Schiavo to have no cognitive awareness based on his one-hour long viewing of a home videotape is outrageous. He has never even been in the same room with the woman! His statement is an insult and an attack on the integrity of fellow doctors who have actually examined Terri Schiavo. Her EEG is flat. No signs of electrical activity at all. She presently has 75% of her brain but only the brain stem is functioning.

P.S. -- Just last week there was an article online about the results of a study of the abstinence-only programs. The study found that 88% of teenagers who took the pledge to abstain from sexual intercourse before marriage actually did engage in intercourse prior to marriage versus 98% of teenagers who did not take the pledge. But, the rate of STD infections in teenagers who took the pledge to abstain was much higher for a number of reasons. One of those was the fact that they were much less likely to possess condoms and the other was the fact that they were six times more likely to engage in oral sex.

[Biomanjcs72]

on the courts thing -

if the 11 circuit denies the request - they appeal back to the 11th circuit (a 3 judge panel reviews; then the entire slew of them i think) - 1 or 2 times I can't remember which - but I know at least once -

then it goes to the supreme court.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Biomanjcs72

on the courts thing -

if the 11 circuit denies the request - they appeal back to the 11th circuit (a 3 judge panel reviews; then the entire slew of them i think) - 1 or 2 times I can't remember which - but I know at least once -

then it goes to the supreme court.

Oh, OK.

So it could take several days before it goes to the Supreme Court? I know Anthony Kennedy hears emergency appeals from the 11th. Circuit and I know he would act very quickly but I'm not sure how long the process takes to get it before the entire Supreme Court??? In other words, what happens if Justice Kennedy turns down the appeal?

[almostdiva]

OK -- I am going to try and copy and paste all the various comments that I want to reply to, but I might not get all of them....

Unfortunately in our world today there are spouses that would rather have their significant other dead, regardless of their medical condition. Is this the case here? If one could decide that her husband is not rationally acting in her best interest then perhaps it would be better for her parents to be able to override his decision. If on the other hand he is acting in her best interest, and there is some documented proof that this is also her wish,"

Scott -- according to a report I heard on NPR yesterday (I guess I have now opened the door for folks to start shouting how liberally biased they are... ) Michael Schiavo decided he would hold firm after a deposition several years ago in which his attorney (same one he still has) was asking the parents what they would/wouldn't do to prolong her life. He started off by asking if they would amputate an arm, moved to the other, moved to her legs, then asked if they would approve open heart surgery. In each case the parent's reply was "yes" they would have the particular treatment/procedure carried out. When it became evident that they would do almost ANYTHING to keep her alive, he decided he would continue to advocate on her behalf -- no matter what.

Now why would a Congress pass a law for just this case, what kind of a law is this? What would preclude other lawyers from using this law in the future and try to clutter courts with all sorts of appeals? I just don't get where is the sense in this?

Gene -- The "Right to Life"/evangelical movement has decided that Terry is going to be their newest symbol/rallying point/cause celebre

All 12 of the independent court-appointed doctors who have examined her over the years have reached that diagnosis after examining her. I'm sure they did an EEG plus the usual physical neurological stimuli. You can stick pins in her and there is no response of any kind.

George -- last time around (I think... ) one of the court apptd neurologists tried to get all sides to agree to abide by the results of a swallow test -- apparently whatever part of the brain controls this function also indicates level of cognition. The parents refused.

Her care is paid for by MedicAide and by a large (but steadily dwindling) settlement resulting from a malpractice suit. HOW IRONIC for the republicans, who want to reduce state's medicaid payments and are so keen for torte reform (particulary in cases of medical malpractice), that this woman who has become their latest national rallying point is being kept alive by two funding sources they are trying their darndest to eliminate/significantly minimize.

The ONLY thing I have never heard discussed in detail is why/how the malpractice suit came about. There must be a fairly significant gag order in place. Everyone is reporting that her PVS is the result of her heart stopping as a result of an eating disorder, but nobody has discussed the circumstances surrounding the subsequent suit. I wonder what happened...

Assuming they are turned down by the 11th. Circuit Court of Appeals, I believe it would then go to Justice Kennedy.

Hopefully you're right -- as long at it doesn't go to either Thomas or Scalia, both of whom are Opus Dei members and would side with the parents without question.

[Biomanjcs72]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Oh, OK.

So it could take several days before it goes to the Supreme Court? I know Anthony Kennedy hears emergency appeals from the 11th. Circuit and I know he would act very quickly but I'm not sure how long the process takes to get it before the entire Supreme Court??? In other words, what happens if Justice Kennedy turns down the appeal?

I don't think Appeals of a supreme court decision are allowed - I think if Kennedy decides to take the issue before the whole court - He does so and that's it - If he decides not to - then they don't.. end of story.

Either way - he'll have to write an "opinion" on why he does or does not take it to the whole court.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by almostdiva

The ONLY thing I have never heard discussed in detail is why/how the malpractice suit came about. There must be a fairly significant gag order in place. Everyone is reporting that her PVS is the result of her heart stopping as a result of an eating disorder, but nobody has discussed the circumstances surrounding the subsequent suit. I wonder what happened...

I believe the malpractice settlement was based on the hospital's failure to diagnose the electrolite imbalance. That's just something I heard on TV a couple of days ago. I'm not sure if that was the only issue.

Hopefully you're right -- as long at it doesn't go to either Thomas or Scalia, both of whom are Opus Dei members and would side with the parents without question.

To say nothing of the fact that Scalia's son is a Catholic priest.

[Ninong]

Interesting article.

[Biomanjcs72]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Interesting article.

Just read the article - I Like it - also why I like the fact that the first Federal Judge turned down the request - we'll see what the 11th circuit does.

[almostdiva]

Originally Posted by Biomanjcs72

Just read the article - I Like it - also why I like the fact that the first Federal Judge turned down the request - we'll see what the 11th circuit does.

Me, too -- on both counts!

[fishguy_8]

This is a bit random but i find it funny....last night i was watching the daily show w/ Jon Stewart and he commented on this case....he said something along the lines of .... It seems the government in the past has consistently did nothing for anyone; So this government is going to do something for one person. get george w and dick and the cabinet put 'em in a van and they can go around the country solving each persons problems. .... sorry for the random thought but i found it funny .....his delivery is much better than mine.