[Ninong]

Originally Posted by fishguy_8

...put 'em in a van and they can go around the country solving each persons problems.

Let's see. There are presently 35,000 people in the United States that are in a persistent vegetative state -- many from drug overdoses -- so they should be as busy as Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. Of course, there would have to be a special bill from Congress on each individual case and that's much more likely to happen if they have Randall Terry, anti-abortion activist and founder of Operation Rescue, as their spokesperson like Terri Schiavo's parents have. It's amazing what you can get some politicians to do if you know the "right" people.

This is a win-win situation for certain politicians. Even if they fail, they tried. And that will appease their "pro-life base" and put the Democrats in a difficult position. What more could you ask?

Little Tom DeLay , one of the finest minds of the eleventh century, is in his glory right now. Anything to divert attention from his multiple ethics violations.

[schrocat]

Ninong,

Justice Kennedy covers the 11th (not sure if that was clarified)

btw this is the most civil\rational thread about this situation on the entire internet...I am so impressed I'm almost tearing up.

My fingers are bleeding from typing elsewhere since Friday.

Apparently FoxNews handed out advanced medical degrees this weekend to anybody who showed up...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by schrocat

Ninong,

Justice Kennedy covers the 11th (not sure if that was clarified)

Yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread.

btw this is the most civil\rational thread about this situation on the entire internet...I am so impressed I'm almost tearing up.

That's because no one has yet disagreed with anything any of us have posted.

Apparently FoxNews handed out advanced medical degrees this weekend to anybody who showed up...

Barney Frank said that even though most members of the House are not medical doctors, they play them on C-SPAN.

Little Tom DeLay is the country's new ethical and spiritual leader. He told a right-to-life group that Terri Schiavo was a "gift from God" to wake up Americans to what has been going on in this country. He warned them that there was a vast conspiracy that was attacking conservatives like himself personally in an attempt to take down their movement. The very ethically challenged House Majority Leader is now the new Jeanne d'Arc and the evil, Godless liberals are out to burn him at the stake. Anybody got a match?

Their lawyer just announced that since Terri is a devout Catholic she will be damned to hell for all eternity if she is allowed to die because taking one's own life is a mortal sin. That's a new twist that I haven't heard before. He probably means that the evildoer judges who allowed this to happen will all go to hell. I think they should all be declared "enemy combatants" and held incommunicato for a few years until they repent or until the rapture, whichever comes first.

[Reefland]

You guys will have to excuse my ignorance but...

What does this say about the common practice to use CPR to attempt to save people who's heart has stopped for more than xx minutes? I beleive that the reason she is in this state is because her heart stopped for 5 minutes and she was resesitated and since has been in this vegetative state. Should there be a time limit applied when the medical field is trying to save lives?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by schrocat

Apparently FoxNews handed out advanced medical degrees this weekend to anybody who showed up...

Nobel Prize nominations, too!


From the March 21 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:

HANNITY: And we're going to talk to a doctor who spent 10 hours with her tonight, and he says that he believes, in his expert opinion -- this is a man that was nominated for a Nobel Prize, by the way -- that she could be rehabilitated.



[...]

HANNITY: And coming up later in the program tonight, we're going to meet a doctor who actually spent 10 hours examining Terri Schiavo. He was nominated for a Nobel Prize. He believes that she could be rehabilitated.

[...]

HANNITY: You were nominated for a Nobel Prize in medicine?

HAMMESFAHR: Yes.

[...]

HANNITY: You were nominated to get a Nobel Peace Prize in this work. Are you saying that this woman could be rehabilitated?

[...]

HANNITY: How is it possible we're in this position if you have examined her? You were up for a Nobel Prize. This is mind boggling to me.

[...]

HANNITY: Well, this is what I want to understand. This is your area of expertise that got you nominated for one of the most prestigious awards in medicine, the Nobel Prize.

[...]

HANNITY: -- hang on a second -- and talk to a Nobel prize-nominated physician who spent 10 hours with her, who believes if, given the opportunity, he can rehabilitate her?

[...]

HANNITY: Imagine being in his position and having a guy like a Nobel Prize nominee like Dr. Hammesfahr, who I'm looking at right now, who spent 10 hours with her and feels that, given the chance, he could rehabilitate this girl.

From the March 21 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country:

SCARBOROUGH: And a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo, he says Terri should live and that her husband is perpetrating a hoax that is just aimed at killing his wife.



[...]

SCARBOROUGH: And I'm going to be talking with a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo and he says her husband is pulling a huge hoax simply to kill his wife.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: Coming up: a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who is treating Terri Schiavo says her husband is pulling a hoax.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: So, what is Terri Schiavo's true medical condition? Here to help us sort it out is Dr. William Hammesfahr. He's a neurologist who was nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in medicine. And he's one of the doctors who has treated Terri Schiavo.


Where do they find these quacks? This guy was NEVER nominated for a Nobel Prize. He keeps making this claim and he has been challenged on it before. It's false! Yet these right-wingnut anchors couldn't care less.

The guy got a right-wing Republican Congressman from Florida to write a letter to the Nobel Committee asking them to consider him for a Noble Prize. That's not a nomination because the letter writer is not qualified to make a nomination. The Nobel Committee selects the 3000 or so people who are eligible to make nominations. I think he wanted something that sounded more impressive than the fact that he was fined and placed on probation by the Florida Department of Medicine in 2003.

An October 23, 2002, Tampa Tribune article reported that during an October 2002 hearing, George Felos, attorney for Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, questioned Hammesfahr's qualifications, noting that he "charges cash for treatments and advertises himself as a nominee for a Nobel Prize based on a letter his congressman wrote to the Nobel committee." An October 25, 2003, St. Petersburg Times article noted that Greer, who presided over the hearing, called Hammesfahr a "self-promoter" who "offered no names, no case studies, no videos and no test results to support his claim" that he had treated patients worse off than Terri Schiavo.

An October 17, 2002, Philadelphia Inquirer article noted that while Hammesfahr and the other doctor chosen by the Schindlers claimed that Terri Schiavo could be helped, her attending physician, the court-appointed physician, and the doctors selected by Michael Schiavo all stated that her condition would not improve.

[SCETT316]

This is a very difficult situation.
But when you have Dr. William Hammesfahr, a neurologist, stating that in his medical opinion Terri is not PDS & that she is responsive, that with medical attention her condition could improve, It makes me think twice.
When you read a number of affidavits signed by various nurses that were employed by the different nursing homes & facilities that Terri was in, it makes me think more than twice. They testified that while she was suffering from UTI her husband refused treatment of antibiotics for her, that on another occasion they overheard him saying to her Die B****, as well as on the plans he had of how he was going to spend his money after she died. He ordered that not even Basic Care be given to her. I also believe I read he was an RN.
Dr. William Scott Russell signed a sworn affidavit stating that Terri was not comatose, not vegetative and by no means brain dead. She appears to be responsive to her surroundings, not by talking, but by voluntarily looking at the source of sound. IMO this is not the spouse that should be making decisions on her behalf.
He was secretly living with another woman for the past 10 years and has 2 children with her.
Makes me wonder why then has he not divorced Terri? Why the secret?
Lots of people I am sure would not want to live in a vegetative state. That is why there are Living Wills. In the absence of one, the err should side with Life.
It is the government’s responsibility to protect life, and with so many contradictions I believe they did the right thing, except that they should have perhaps intervened earlier.
In fact 47 of the 102 Democratic votes were in favor of this bill. That is almost half of the total democratic votes.
You have a number of groups advocating the rights of Terrorist, after they killed 3 thousand innocent people, why should her rights not be protected.
Not everyone has the same religious beliefs & none of us have the right to criticize or mock one another’s views. That’s what makes this country so great.
I do believe that a spouse has the legal right to make decisions, but in this particular case with so much controversy this case should be fully investigated prior to starving/dehydrating her to death, in order to get the facts straight before allowing her to die.
Inmates in Death Row even get to choose their last meal.
This is just simply my feelings & opinion.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SCETT316

This is a very difficult situation.

It is a difficult, private family matter that the Congress should stay out of.

But when you have Dr. William Hammesfahr, a neurologist, stating that in his medical opinion Terri is not PDS & that she is responsive, that with medical attention her condition could improve, It makes me think twice.

See my comments above about Nobel nominee Hammesfahr. Don't miss the 96-page disciplinary ruling from the Florida State Medical Board. It's a sad fact of life that you can find "experts" to support just about any position. Must make it very frustrating on jurors hearing medical malpractice cases.

When you read a number of affidavits signed by various nurses

Like this nurse?

Dr. William Scott Russell signed a sworn affidavit stating that Terri was not comatose, not vegetative and by no means brain dead. She appears to be responsive to her surroundings, not by talking, but by voluntarily looking at the source of sound.

Her parents have found doctors who support their position that she "communicates" with them. Nineteen judges (Republicans and Democrats) have heard this case! Twelve different independent court-appointed doctors have examined her for days, sometimes weeks, and all have agreed that she is in a persistent vegetative state, that she has no cognitive function and that there is no chance of improvement. Her EEG is flat. There is no electrical activity at all. Only her brain stem still functions. MRIs reveal that she has already lost 25% of her brain mass.

IMO this is not the spouse that should be making decisions on her behalf.

That's the law in the state of Florida. That's why it's a good idea to have a living will. If you don't have a living will, the spouse has the responsibility for making those life-support decisions. The chain of command is spouse, eldest adult child, parents after any adult children, eldest sibling, etc.

He was secretly living with another woman for the past 10 years and has 2 children with her.

According to Tom DeLay that makes him "an adulturer" and a common-law "bigamist." His wife has been in an irreversible vegetative state for the past 15 years. Her parents have been keeping her alive all that time by refusing to allow the laws of the state of Florida to decide this issue.

You may wish to read the full report of the Guardian Ad Litem, it certainly disagrees with all of the negative comments about her husband: http://jb-williams.com/ts-report-12-03.htm

Makes me wonder why then has he not divorced Terri? Why the secret?

He hasn't divorced her because that would have allowed her parents to keep her alive for another 20 or 30 years so that they could visit her every day. That's fine IF that was what she wanted, but the courts have ruled that that was not what she wanted. Should we accept the word of her parents and Fox News or should we rely on the 19 judges who have already heard this case?

Lots of people I am sure would not want to live in a vegetative state. That is why there are Living Wills. In the absence of one, the err should side with Life.

I would certainly not want that in my own personal situation. I don't know of anyone who would want that for themselves. That's not what I would describe as "life." In the absence of a living will, her husband has to make that decision. After all, that's part of the "sanctity of marriage." We wouldn't want to do anything to weaken the institution of marriage?

It is the government’s responsibility to protect life, and with so many contradictions I believe they did the right thing, except that they should have perhaps intervened earlier.

What they did was nothing less than pander to the right-wing of the Republican Party. This bill is almost certainly unconstitutional and I only hope that the Supreme Court takes it up so that that issue can be resolved.

Whatever happened to States' Rights? Back during the 1960's that's all I heard. The federal government shouldn't do anything about segregation in the South because that was a States' Rights issue, not a civil rights issue.

I thought the Republicans were in favor of federalism? Local government is better equipped to address local problems. Less central government and all that stuff. "Washington" is the problem, not the solution. You know, that sort of stuff.

In fact 47 of the 102 Democratic votes were in favor of this bill. That is almost half of the total democratic votes.

The Congressional Black Caucus supported this bill. It's a religious thing with them and they don't want to upset all the black Baptist ministers.

You have a number of groups advocating the rights of Terrorist, after they killed 3 thousand innocent people, why should her rights not be protected.

Her rights have been protected. What Congress did is a violation of her rights.

Not everyone has the same religious beliefs & none of us have the right to criticize or mock one another’s views. That’s what makes this country so great.

We have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. When people make irrational claims in the name of religion, we have a First Amendment right to point out that what they are saying is irrational. Religion is no excuse for nonsense. If it were up to the right-wing of the Republican Party we would be teaching the Noah's Ark theory of evolution in our public schools now and telling the children that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. That sort of nonsense must be challenged regardless of whether it is someone's deeply held religious belief. In fact, it must be challenged especially if it is proclaimed as a religious belief.

Her parents have falsely claimed that she will go to hell for all eternity if she is allowed to die because it is a "mortal sin" to take one's own life. That's a lie and they know it. They are misusing their Catholic faith to support their own selfish position. She is not guilty of any sin, mortal or venial, for the actions of others. This is the sort of nonsense that has to be called what it is.

I do believe that a spouse has the legal right to make decisions, but in this particular case with so much controversy this case should be fully investigated...

For what? Another 15 years! It has already been investigated by at least 19 judges in six courts. The first decision to remove life support was made seven years ago.

...prior to starving/dehydrating her to death, in order to get the facts straight before allowing her to die.

Are you saying that the state of Florida is incapable of getting the facts straight after 15 years?

Inmates in Death Row even get to choose their last meal.
This is just simply my feelings & opinion.

Susan, I know it's what you feel and what you believe and I'm not making fun of your opinion. I am pointing out that you can't believe everything you see on Fox News.

At some point enough is enough. We have courts to decide if the husband is a scoundrel or not. We have courts to decide who should make the life support decision in such cases. They have already decided.

Would you want something like that for yourself or for Anthony? Of course not. There is no hope for this woman. She will never "get better."

There are 30,000 people in the U.S. today who are in a persistent vegetative state. Many of them are that way due to drug overdoses. They probably won't make it onto Fox News. What about Texas' new "futile case" law? The state of Texas gets to pull the plug even if you did have a living will stating that you wanted all means taken to support life for as long as possible. Even if your husband and your parents and your entire neighborhood wants them to keep you on life support. They pulled the plug a few days ago on a 6-month old baby boy over the objections of his mother because it was a "futile case." It really was but that's beside the point. It just goes to show that the laws are not the same in every state. And in Texas, if the state decides to pull the plug, the family gets only 10 days for legal recourse.

[SCETT316]

Hi George:
I was simply expressing my opinion. I understand your point of view. My feelings are that there are too many contradicting reports that create a doubt and since it is a Life that is involved I favor Life.
I went through this ordeal with my own Beloved Father not too long ago. My Dad was unable to eat anymore and he did not want a feeding tube. He told me this directly, so I made the decision to not have one inserted, respected his wishes and allowed him to pass in peace.
I am a religious person and I am not embarrassed to say so. But that is not the reason why I feel the way I do in this case. I just do not feel comfortable taking the husband's word for it.
BTW I do not believe everything that FOX reports, but some what more than reports from Dan Rather from CBS that's for sure.

If it were up to the right-wing of the Republican Party we would be teaching the Noah's Ark theory of evolution in our public schools now and telling the children that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. That sort of nonsense must be challenged regardless of whether it is someone's deeply held religious belief. In fact, it must be challenged especially if it is proclaimed as a religious belief.

So I guess while were at it we should have the IN GOD WE TRUST removed from our currency as well?
I totally respect your opinion, I just simply disagree with some of it.

Well I guess from now on I will stay in the Reef Forum like I usually do

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SCETT316

Well I guess from now on I will stay in the Reef Forum like I usually do

No, it's boring if everyone agrees with everything.

[Penguin]

Well the 11th district denied the appeal. I heard on the radio this morning that pro-life groups will now lobby Florida legislators to pass a special law mandating that the feeding tube be reinserted. I knew they'd come up with something else.

I have to wonder what the pro-life protestors will get out of this, even if Schiavo is kept alive. Visibility?

[almostdiva]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Well the 11th district denied the appeal. I heard on the radio this morning that pro-life groups will now lobby Florida legislators to pass a special law mandating that the feeding tube be reinserted. I knew they'd come up with something else.

I have to wonder what the pro-life protestors will get out of this, even if Schiavo is kept alive. Visibility?

They get VISIBILITY. Their cause/viewpoint is now the leading story on every local and national news cast and in every newspaper.

The Florida house passed a bill last week that the Senate vetoed -- I heard about it driving in to work this am, so I can't remember what the substance was exactly but essentially it says that in the absence of a living will, a person on a feeding tube must remain in that condition if there is a difference among family members as to what should be done.

The 11th Circuit actually did take the conservative wiew (from a judicial not a religious standpoint) -- that this is a state issue, not a federal issue, and that the parents had no compelling argument that pursuing the case would result in any different finding from what 19 courts (or whatever it is) have already found. The Supremem Court has already turned this case down twice (as recently as last week). They are unlikely to hear the case now.

Maybe Terry Schiavo will finally be at peace after all.

Little Tom DeLay, one of the finest minds of the eleventh century, is in his glory right now. Anything to divert attention from his multiple ethics violations.

Amen, Ninong!! This must make his day. He gets to stand up and rant on national television (we are ALL gifts from God, Tom) and nobody is talking about the indictments of his staff or his free and fancy money moving! Sounds like his media reprieve is about to end though!

[NoSump]

There seems to have been suffcient grounds to deny Mr. Shiavo legal standing in this case. He has taken on a new common-law wife, had children with this wife, and has clearly moved on with his life. There is nothing wrong with any of those actions, but the argument can be made that his standing to speak on behalf of Mrs. Shiavo has been compromised. Clearly, her parents are now the parties with the closest familial ties to Terri.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, I don't believe that any thinking person is not moved by the sadness of this whole event. It just seems odd to me that the same people who place such a high value on the lives of convicted murderers, terrorist suspects, animals (especially endangered species), and the citizens of any nation with whom the U.S. contemplates military action, are always on the other side of the value of life debate when it's an inocent party (such as an unborn child or a seriously ill person).

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NoSump

There seems to have been suffcient grounds to deny Mr. Shiavo legal standing in this case. He has taken on a new common law wife, had children with this wife, and has clearly moved on with his life. There is nothing wrong with any of those actions, but the argument can be made that his standing to speak on behalf of Mrs. Shiavo has been compromised. Clearly, her parents are now the parties with the closest familial ties to Terri.

I have heard that her parents have been asking her husband to grant her a divorce so that they can make the decision for her. If that's the way it works, then it might be a useful strategy for parents who disagree with their son-in-law's decision to simply drag things out for 15 years or so until he finally gives in and grants the divorce?

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, I don't believe that any thinking person is not moved by the sadness of this whole event. It just seems odd to me that the same people who place such a high value on the lives of convicted murderers, terrorist suspects, animals (especially endangered species), and the citizens of any nation with whom the U.S. contemplates military action, are always on the other side of the value of life debate when it's an inocent party (such as an unborn child or a seriously ill person).

And it seems to me that people who are "pro-life" would be the last ones to demand the death penalty, especially for teenagers and the seriously mentally impaired. In fact, anyone who is truly "pro-life" should be against the death penalty on principle. I find it strange that some so-called "religious fundamentalists" get to pick and choose which passages from the Bible they will believe verbatim and which they will disregard but that's sort of off-topic.

I don't personally believe in abortion but that's a personal belief and I don't think I should be able to impose my "beliefs" on others, especially for abortions during the first trimester. I have a very difficult time condoning abortions after that except under the most extraordinary circumstances but I accept the fact that that is a legal matter best decided by the Supreme Court. I see nothing wrong with the so-called morning after pill, for example, other than the possibility that it might encourage irresponsible behavior. But then again, who am I to determine what is irresponsible behavior.

I would like to see the death penalty abolished. That's one area where I agree with the Catholic Church. BTW, shrewd politician that we know him to be, Rick Santorum is about to change his position on the death penalty. Polls indicate that his Catholic base is shifting heavily against the death penalty (63% of regular church-attending Catholics are now against the death penalty). I expect him to come out against the death penalty within a few months if not sooner. He will still be very anti-gay, at least until the polls change.

I see where Pat Buchanan is comparing the judges who ordered the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube to Nazi war criminals. I miss Pat. He was so much fun at the convention. Too bad they don't let him give speeches there anymore. I wonder why? He's so representative of that wing of the GOP. Pity.

[Ninong]

Another interesting issue here is Dr. Frist's public announcement that in his professional opinion Terri Shiavo has cognitive awareness. This is a tricky issue for Dr. Frist because, as we all know, he has pulled the plug (and rightfully so) on many, many brain dead patients in his career. Were he to agree with the diagnosis of the court-appointed doctors, he wouldn't be able to oppose the removal of her feeding tube and still be consistent with his past statements on this topic. He has to somehow take the position that she is not brain dead in spite of her flat EEG.

He is now taking a lot of heat from the medical profession for his politically-motivated comments but he's really in a tight spot here. After all, he has written on this topic for years and favors the removal of life support from brain dead patients with no hope of recovery. He can't suddenly come out in favor of continuing these futile efforts unless he can claim that there is hope that her condition will improve. It must be difficult being a physician and a politician at the same time.

P.S. -- In the strictest sense of the term, she's not brain dead but she will never have cognitive awareness.

[NoSump]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I have heard that her parents have been asking her husband to grant her a divorce so that they can make the decision for her. If that's the way it works, then it might be a useful strategy for parents who disagree with their son-in-law's decision to simply drag things out for 15 years or so until he finally gives in and grants the divorce?



And it seems to me that people who are "pro-life" would be the last ones to demand the death penalty, especially for teenagers and the seriously mentally impaired/Quote

So your response to my point regarding the hypocracy of the left is to say "the right is hypocritical too". No offense, but that's not exactly a ringing defense of your position(to claim that the other guy is equally or more guilty than you are).

I find it strange that some so-called "religious fundamentalists" get to pick and choose which passages from the Bible they will believe verbatim and which they will disregard but that's sort of off-topic/Quote

Yes it is. I made no mention of any religious beliefs or affiliations. There are alot of things in this world that I personally find objectionable (rap music, speeding tickets, green algae, the Boston Red Sox, etc.). The things that I find objectionable, I simply avoid. I do not fault those that happen to like those things (except for the Red Sox). I really don't understand why people such as yourself have such a preoccupation with other peoples free excercise of religion. Yes, I know that most churchs are critical of your orientation/lifestyle, but what do you care if you are not affiliated with those churches? Does your right not to be offended supercede their right to hold their beliefs? Extremists that want to deny the scientific fact of evolution (as an example) are clearly wrong, but in America you have a right to be wrong. Some people/groups just abuse that right more than others.

I don't personally believe in abortion but that's a personal "religious" belief and I don't think I should be able to impose my "beliefs" on others/Quote

Laws are a society's way of imposing a value system. In this country we consider murder, fraud, arson, etc. to be against our values and therefore ilegal. I don't think that you would argue that a murderer or an arsonist should not have our values forced upon them. The debate over abortion is a function of which value postion should prevail.


I see where Pat Buchanan is comparing the judges who ordered the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube to Nazi war criminals.

Sounds like Pat has been talking with Senator Byrd. At least "our" nut case is not a currently serving US Senator.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NoSump

Sounds like Pat has been talking with Senator Byrd. At least "our" nut case is not a currently serving US Senator.

Most of our living fossils switched to the GOP. At least we got rid of Strom Thurmond. They were still wheeling him back and forth from the hospital at the age of 100 whenever they needed his vote. I think Strom was more comfortable in the Republican Party. He carried Louisiana and three other Deep South states when he ran for President just like David Duke, my favorite Republican candidate, carried my district (1st. Congressional) when he ran for the House seat vacated by Speaker-elect Bob Livingston, another ethics-challenged local Republican. Unfortunately, little David Vitter , who won that House seat is now the junior U.S. Senator from Louisiana, having successfully won the seat vacated by John Breaux.

Frankly I'm surprised Pat Buchanan and David Duke haven't teamed up yet to make a run for the White House. They have so many views in common.

We have more than enough local politicians in Louisiana from both parties with colorful pasts -- those that are not currently behind bars, like our ex-governor and his son. Five of our state insurance commissioners have been convicted of felonies. Five in a row! I doubt any other state can match that. In our state, party affiliation is not a good indicator of potential for shenanigans.

Now that both Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms are gone from the Senate, I think we should offer the GOP their choice of any Democratic Senator that they would like. I'm sure they would choose someone we wouldn't mind losing.

[NoSump]

Originally Posted by Ninong

the House seat vacated by Speaker-elect Bob Livingston

I remember when Livingston stood up and resigned over an affair which had been uncovered (by Larry Flint - of all people). He called on Clinton to follow his example and resign over the Lewinski affair. Bob must have had somthing in his gumbo that day, if he thought Clinton was going to resign on "moral grounds".


We'll trade you Arlen Spector for Joe Lieberman!

[almostdiva]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Most of our living fossils switched to the GOP. ......

We have more than enough local politicians in Louisiana from both parties with colorful pasts -- those that are not currently behind bars, like our ex-governor and his son. Five of our state insurance commissioners have been convicted of felonies. Five in a row! I doubt any other state can match that. In our state, party affiliation is not a good indicator of potential for shenanigans.

Almost makes you nostalgic for the days of Earl and Hughey Long, doesn't it??? At least they were entertaining!

He is now taking a lot of heat from the medical profession for his politically-motivated comments but he's really in a tight spot here. After all, he has written on this topic for years and favors the removal of life support from brain dead patients with no hope of recovery. He can't suddenly come out in favor of continuing these futile efforts unless he can claim that there is hope that her condition will improve. It must be difficult being a physician and a politician at the same time.

I wondered when his previous positions would start catching up to him....

And as for our beloved <gack> Senator Santorum -- SAY IT AIN'T SO!!?? Although I heard the same numbers you did (this morning??) about the per centage of Catholics who now oppose the death penalty. Rick is up for re-election next year. So far, the PA Dems can't get themselves sorted NEARLY enough to mount an effective challenge against him. The former state Treasurer, Barbara Haeffer (sp?) has said she's in, but she is SO low profile, most Pennsylvanians have no clue who she is. Then there is Bob Casey, Jr, who gives Eastern Pennsylvanians fits because he has very strict Catholic views. Supposedly the City of Phila Treasurer is seeing about the viability of running. Whoever it is will need SCADS of $$$$ -- I predict it will be WAY more expensive than Hillary Clinton's race a few years ago.

By the way, Terry's parents are now appealing to the full 12-member 11th Curcuit panel. In their decision, the majority of the 3 judg panel wrote:

the parents “failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims."

"We also conclude that the district court’s carefully thought out decision to deny temporary relief in these circumstances is not an abuse of discretion," Judges Ed Carnes and Frank Hull wrote in the majority opinion.

“There is no denying the absolute tragedy that has befallen Mrs. Schiavo,” the ruling said. “We all have our own family, our own loved ones, and our own children. However, we are called upon to make a collective, objective decision concerning a question of law.”

We are now at day 5 since the tube was pulled. This dragged out 6 days before the tube was reinserted the last time the families went through this.