[Ninong]

I just finished reading an article warning people to beware of flood damages cars showing up in their part of the country on used car lots and was struck by how little has changed in the last 40 years. The same companies are still engaging in criminal behavior.

And it’s not just run-of-the-mill scofflaws who have profited. In January, State Farm Insurance, the nation’s largest auto insurer, agreed to a $40 million settlement after it admitted it had sold thousands of salvaged cars without salvage titles, as required by law.

Back in 1965, following Hurricane Betsy, I remember seeing trainloads of cars (thousands of cars) leaving Louisiana for Arizona, where they would be allowed to dry out in the desert air for a few weeks before being "refurbished" for resale to unsuspecting buyers. Virtually all of the insurance companies participated in this sort of shady business. State Farm was the biggest culprit at the time because they were the biggest insurer. And I see that they haven't changed their ways.

In spite of the fact that most states have tightened their "branding" laws over the past couple of decades, some insurance companies and some wholesale auto restorers have managed to find ways to get around these laws. The laws depend in large part on the honesty of the people involved. Insurance companies do not rank very high in that department.

You may want to read the article if you are unfamiliar with this possibility: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...8.asp?GT1=7009

[Reefland]

That is so wrong, but I'm not surprised. I think the CarFax reports are fairly reliable and would recommend making sure your "new" car had one befor eit was purchased.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Reefland

That is so wrong, but I'm not surprised. I think the CarFax reports are fairly reliable and would recommend making sure your "new" car had one befor eit was purchased.

Not every state reports to CarFax. California, for example, does not. CarFax doesn't care to mention this in their ads.

CarFax gathers information from states that cooperate with it. Even that information is unreliable because it depends on full and complete and honest reporting. It just doesn't happen.

[Ninong]

Another problem is that insurance companies will knowingly "look the other way" when it comes to what happens to the cars they wholesale. They are not likely to discontinue doing business with someone just because they know that that outfit is washing titles through two or three states to defeat the purpose of the branding laws and the reporting companies like CarFax.

[Reefland]

I wasn't aware of exactly how CarFax works however a lot of dealers are offering them now. I felt like I got a pretty good recap of our new car.

[stang69]

Hello

I am in the retail sales of cars and I do highly recomment a carfax on each car I sell. I know that carfax is the most reliable etc for info on prev. owned cars but........ the website can only report what it is given as stated above.

I also recomend buying from a larger dealership. For instance I work for a local dealership that has over 400 cars in it inventory. Every one we sell goes thru a 180 point inspection to make sure it meets state standards given to us. In most care this is exceeded. I am proud of the dealership I worked for and sell my product with pride.

We offer a 3 month 3000 mile Warr. on 99% of the cars we sell we are that confident in them. As a general rule it is much easier to do the warr. and sell a strong car and a reliable car than to sell a POS this does my name nor the dealership any good. I know my name is not worth sellin a POS and have it come bite me in the butt 2 months down the road when it has problems.

As far as the reconditioning of cars I know it has happened in the past but I would about bet my job it hasnt happend at our dealership. We will not sell refurbished titles even if we would happen to get one thru an auction.

If you have any questions please feel free to mail me and I will respond as quickly as possiable as I work long hours.


Happy Reefin and auto shopping everyone


Jeff


PS this sounds like a sales pitch but just offering a view from the retail side of things.

[Ninong]

Jeff,

I guess I should have pointed out that it is highly unlikely that any of these "restored" flood-damaged cars would show up on a new car dealership's used car lot nowadays.

Things were very different back in 1965 following Hurricane Betsy. Alabama was still a no-title state then. And I don't recall any states having the branding laws that exist today. (Branding simply means that the title must disclose if the car had previously been salvaged by an insurance company, been used as a taxicab or law enforcement vehicle, etc.)

Some dealerships participated in some rather unethical conduct forty years ago. I know of one dealership in particular in Louisiana that sold Oldsmobile Dynamic 88's to the Sheriff's department of a certain parish in southeast Louisiana. The sheriff would have them outfitted with clip-on bubble gum machine lights (that's what we called them back then) that could be easily removed. They would remove the original white-wall tires and large hubcaps and replace them with heavy-duty blackwall tires and small hubcaps. (Remember that back then virtually all American cars were sold with whitewall tires.) Then, after about six months of hard service and some 40,000 - 50,000 miles, the sheriff would pull these care out of service and sell them back to the dealer at a pre-arranged price. But before doing so, the sheriff would reinstall the original white-wall tires and large hubcaps. The dealer would then spin the odometers back to 3,500 - 4,200 miles on each of these cars before selling them to the public as "low-mileage demos." This went on for years with the full knowledge of the sheriff's department.

Back then there were no specific laws on the books against spinning odometers. I remember quite well when those laws first took effect. I know of quite a few dealers who just didn't get it in the beginning. Only after being hit with $10,000 per vehicle fines did it finally sink in -- especially after they had their doors chained for 30 days for repeated violations.

Anyway, chances of these "restored" flood-damaged cars showing up on a new car dealership's used car lot are slim to none nowadays. The manufacturers have too many ways to punish dealers who do not maintain high customer satisfaction ratings. But that doesn't mean that they won't show up on "pot lots" or eBay. There are some people who specialize in exactly this sort of "specialty" market. And they are quite good at washing titles through three or four different states prior to offering the cars for sale.

P.S. -- My main point in my opening post was to point out that the same large insurance companies that were guilty as sin forty years ago are still at it as evidenced by the huge fines they are being forced to pay.

[stang69]

Ok Nin I may have misread and went on a rip hehhehe



Jeff


PS But..................


Anyone lookin fer a great car local please give me a email