[schrocat]

I think the child should decide at whatever time they legally may.


Incidently I wonder how a survey of 13 year old boys would rank the statement "I love children and look forward to having them"...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by schrocat

I think the child should decide at whatever time they legally may.

In this country, at age 18 unless legally emancipated sooner.

[sihaya]

Ninong... again, I understand how you're seeing things. But many bioethicists and doctors give a lot of consideration to the *consequences* of the principles they normally adhere to. In this case, the principle to be upheld is clear... but the very real and very tragic consequences of adhering to the principle can't be altogether ignored.

[Ninong]

The consequences have to be ignored because it is a false set of options. The "option" of having the girl live as a boy is false because it is simply not possible. This would be so outrageously wrong that I cannot imagine this situation being used as an example in class.

[Ninong]

Maybe that nurse should have interviewed some of the many women who were assigned that gender mistakenly as infants by doctors who felt that they somehow had to "fix" things. Then as these girls mature, they discover that they are sexually attracted to other girls because they are genetically male. Some of them end up in what would appear on the surface to be lesbian relationships and others actually undergo gender reassignment surgery to correct what the doctors got wrong when they were infants.

[BubbaWPB]

I feel like I'm back in medical school where the Jesuit priests were in charge of the ethics classes... anyway, as a physician, here's my two cents:

1. No physician is ethically bound to take on a case like this. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, even if I were a surgeon.
2. It doesn't matter what I would think anyway, because in my experience the family will probably find a surgeon who will do the requested surgery, if not in the US, in another country.

Just my practical views on the issue.

Dr. Bubba

[sihaya]

Originally Posted by Ninong

The consequences have to be ignored because it is a false set of options. The "option" of having the girl live as a boy is false because it is simply not possible. This would be so outrageously wrong that I cannot imagine this situation being used as an example in class.

Hmm... I know of more than a few transexuals who would disagree with you. However, if you're pointing out the impossibility of her "hiding" her genetic gender forever... well, that requires a lot of speculation (but it's something to consider).

Dr. Bubba-- the doctors didn't know what they were getting into when they took this patient. They thought they were dealing with a boy with blood in his urine and some embarrasing fat distribution. By the time the reality of the situation became known, they were already they kid's physicians.

It's a good point, though, that no matter what these particular doctors/surgeons do won't matter much b/c if the family wants the surgery done badly enough, they'll find someone to do it.

[BubbaWPB]

Originally Posted by sihaya

By the time the reality of the situation became known, they were already they kid's physicians.

They could still opt not to do the surgery after finding out what the situation was. They could present what the options are to the parents, but still not be willing to do any of them: i.e. surgery, no surgery, counseling/therapy, etc.

I still don't think it's an endless cunundrum.... if the surgeons don't think it's the right thing to do, they won't do it, and the family will seek out what they want and probably get it. ....and that's the reality of the situation.

[Poseidon]

Well.... This was more then I was hoping for. I say leave the girl alone, all the physical attributes are going to be a HUGE problem later with all the required horomone therapy etc...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by sihaya

Hmm... I know of more than a few transexuals who would disagree with you. However, if you're pointing out the impossibility of her "hiding" her genetic gender forever... well, that requires a lot of speculation (but it's something to consider).

This isn't a valid analogy for a number of reasons. First of all, in the situation as presented, nothing was said about sexual orientation, so I assume that the 13-year-old girl is attracted to the opposite sex. The fact that her parents have been dressing her as a boy all this time has nothing to do with this. She is a girl!

A transsexual person is choosing to take hormones to enable them to pass as the opposite sex. This 13-year-old girl would have to take male hormones for the rest of her life to be able to grow a beard and to lower her voice. There is no way that she could pass for a man in a muslim country without taking male hormones. She would never be able to marry without exposing her secret.

The very idea that this is considered a viable option is beyond my comprehension. What we're talking about here is forced gender reassignment surgery on a child. This is unthinkable!

[sihaya]

Well, in the end, I'm with you... as hard as it will be for the kid, s/he's got to face the facts eventually.

Unfortunatly, the doctors did go ahead and do the surgery.