[Ninong]

The GOP in Texas is playing the God card openly against a Democratic nominee for an appellate court bench in east Texas. He's not Christian enough to be qualified for public office.

It's now official. The GOP (Party of God, aka Hezbollah in Arabic) now insists that this candidate is not qualified to hold office because:

The Republican Party notes in its recent newsletter that Article 16, §1(a) of the Texas Constitution prescribes the oath of office for all elected or appointed officials. The officeholder swears to faithfully execute the duties of the office and, to the best of his or her ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this state "so help me God."

However, the state Republican Party questions whether Franks will uphold the law, stating in the newsletter: "Should Franks be elected in November, one would have to conclude that he will hold true to his out of touch 'atheist' belief system and ignore the laws and Constitution of Texas."

The Republican Party of Texas has accused the Democratic candidate, E. Ben Franks, of being an atheist. And in the view of the Republican Party of Texas, an atheist is not qualified to hold office in their state. Their interpretation of the First Amendment is that when it says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," that means that everyone must exercise a religious belief and it must be one that is approved by the Texas Taliban.

They haven't changed. They're still trying to turn this country into a theocracy!

The following exchange took place at a press conference on August 27, 1987 at Chicago's O'Hare airport:

Reporter to presidential candidate George H. W. Bush: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

George H. W. Bush: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

[wozza]

holy crap how can people think like that?
its nuts they have been brainwashed in to religon.

[SPasse]

Hi All,

Actually I am a Roman Catholic Spy that is a member of the local First Baptist church.

Makes for some interesting Bible Study discussions…

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Sounds to me like you went from the frying pan into the fire.

At least if you stayed Catholic, you would have a better chance of not getting a divorce. Twenty-one percent of Catholics have been divorced compared to 29% of Baptists. The rate for atheists and agnostics is less than 20%. So much for family values.

Atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rates, followed by Catholics and Jews. Christian fundamentalists have the highest divorce rates by far. That's why the so-called Bible Belt States have the highest divorce rates. Arkansas is number one when it comes to divorces.

Massachusetts, the state that legalized gay marriage two years ago, has the lowest divorce rate in the country! Liberals tend to have lower divorce rates than conservatives. They also tend to be better educated, have higher IQ's, make more money, and lead more responsible lives than conservatives.

The 15 states with the highest divorce rates all voted for George W. Bush in 2004. Ten of the 12 states with the lowest divorce rates voted for John Kerry in 2004. There is a strong correlation between a state's average IQ and it's voting record. The dumbest states all voted for George W. Bush.

[SPasse]

George,

"The dumbest states all voted for George W. Bush."

Well if we want to get into a discussion about how cognitive ability effects lots of things…

Required reading:

Amazon.com: Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A Free Press Paperbacks Book): Books: Richard J. Herrnstein,Charles Murray

…and a follow-up book that I need read.

Amazon.com: The Bell Curve Wars: Race, Intelligence, and the Future of America (A New Republic Book): Books: Steve Fraser

The first of these two book is not what one would call an "easy read" but I could not put it down after I started. I imagine the second is simular.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

I wouldn't be caught dead reading anything by Herrnstein or Murray. Thank you very much!

[Ninong]

As a follow-up on my previous response, it is interesting to note that Charles Murray is not a geneticist, he's not a biologist, he's not an anthropologist, he is, in fact, a right-wing member of the American Enterprise Institute with a B.A. in history and a Ph.D. in political science.

His thesis is flawed. It's assumptions are based on research by known racist, white supremacist writers. He and Herrnstein set out to write a book in support of their preconceived notions.

I'm not familiar with the second book you linked but maybe you should have read it first. You could have saved some money.

P.S. -- This sort of reminds me that the Creation Science crackpots are always quoting Dr. Henry M. Morris, whose Ph.D. is in hydraulic engineering. He believes in the literal interpretation of the Old Testament and all of his writings begin with the premise that the Book of Genesis is literally correct ("biblical inerrancy") and he then goes about manipulating the "evidence" to fit that assumption.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

Well if we want to get into a discussion about how cognitive ability effects lots of things…

A more interesting discussion would be about how hypocrisy affects lots of things!

The impeachment of Bill Clinton was loaded with examples of hypocrisy. Many of the Republicans in Congress who were screaming the loudest about his unspeakable crimes were themselves guilty of even worse transgressions. Henry Hyde and Newt Gingrich come to mind as well as Bob Barr.

Barr co-authored the Defense of Marriage Act. Who was he kidding? He's been married three times and he has been unfaithful to all of his wives, just like Newtie, and refused to pay child support, just like Newtie! Except that family values man Barr was even caught on film!!! And now, believe it or not, he's a member of the ACLU. That's because he's mad at the GOP and decided he's really a libertarian at heart. That's a nice combination for you: A board member of the NRA who's also a member of the ACLU.

The most recent examples of hypocrisy in politics were provided by the revelations that the Bush Administration is playing the right-wing fundamentalists for suckers. Throw in the Mark Foley cover-up revelations and you have yourself a classic example of the GOP's manipulation of the gay rights issue to con the fundamentalists into believing that they give a hoot.

The Republicans who scream the loudest about defending marriage from gays are either themselves closeted gays or they employ senior staff members who are gay. If they want to defend marriage, they should pass a law prohibiting divorce. Maybe you should be allowed one divorce in your lifetime and that's it. No more divorces for you. And you would not be allowed to remarry after that one divorce. After all, the Bible says that anyone who marries a divorced woman is committing adultery (Matthew 5:32). The ones who scream the loudest have the highest divorce rates. I sure hope none of those Christian fundamentalists who are getting all those divorces are remarrying divorced women. Heaven forbid! They're all going straight to hell.

And don't even get me started on the new Pope. This is probably the best example of hypocrisy that we will see in our lifetimes.

P.S. -- From Wikipedia:

Barr has been embroiled in controversy several times during his career. In 1998 he delivered the keynote speech at the national convention of the Council of Conservative Citizens, which is viewed by many as white supremacist; he later stated he had not known the group's views until after the speech. His speech did not deal with race, however, and Barr publicly distanced himself from the council. Barr has also suffered attacks for his conservative stance on family values, which left-wing periodical Mother Jones deemed hypocritical: "Married three times and embroiled in a messy court battle with his second wife over his failure to pay child support, Barr had been photographed in 1992 licking whipped cream off two buxom young women's breasts and nipples. And this from the man who would later sponsor the Defense of Marriage Act." In the wake of Barr's adamant support for the impeachment of Bill Clinton, porn mogul Larry Flynt paid Barr's second wife, Gail Vogel Barr, for details of the child support battle and of her abortion. This caused significant political troubles for Barr, noted for his strong pro-life stance.

P.P.S. -- Trent Lott, too, has given a speech to the Council of Conservative Citizens. Trent used the same excuse: "He had no idea they were considered white supremacists." Haha! Trent's uncle sits on their board and Trent knows exactly what they are. They used to be called the White Citizens Council when I was younger.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

Makes for some interesting Bible Study discussions…

Hey, that sounds like a lot of fun!

Maybe we could start a discussion on the Book of Genesis? It's not only the first book of the Bible, it's my favorite book by far.

You go first.

[anthias]

Originally Posted by Ninong

The GOP in Texas is playing the God card openly against a Democratic nominee for an appellate court bench in east Texas. He's not Christian enough to be qualified for public office.

It's now official. The GOP (Party of God, aka Hezbollah in Arabic) now insists that this candidate is not qualified to hold office because:

The Republican Party notes in its recent newsletter that Article 16, §1(a) of the Texas Constitution prescribes the oath of office for all elected or appointed officials. The officeholder swears to faithfully execute the duties of the office and, to the best of his or her ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this state "so help me God."

However, the state Republican Party questions whether Franks will uphold the law, stating in the newsletter: "Should Franks be elected in November, one would have to conclude that he will hold true to his out of touch 'atheist' belief system and ignore the laws and Constitution of Texas."

The Republican Party of Texas has accused the Democratic candidate, E. Ben Franks, of being an atheist. And in the view of the Republican Party of Texas, an atheist is not qualified to hold office in their state. Their interpretation of the First Amendment is that when it says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," that means that everyone must exercise a religious belief and it must be one that is approved by the Texas Taliban.

They haven't changed. They're still trying to turn this country into a theocracy!

The following exchange took place at a press conference on August 27, 1987 at Chicago's O'Hare airport:

Reporter to presidential candidate George H. W. Bush: "Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

George H. W. Bush: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

hi

[Ninong]

Hi anthias,

[SPasse]

George,

God I love throwing grenades over fence. I enjoy laying out a "reasoned" defense of even of things I don't necessarily, completely, personally believe in.

But even if you toss the racial implications out the window; as this is a subject that is next to impossible to even discuss with out the raciest card coming up….

We could talk about the theory that cognitive development is more important to ultimate socioeconomic outcome than any other factor.

I also won't bite on supporting the concept that all within the bible is to be taken literally. The Roman Catholics have even "officially" come to except evolution as "One of God's tools of creation. That is pretty much my perspective as well.

You still might find reading the Bell Curve "interesting" I find I can more convincingly argue against that which I have already read. None of the counter points "that I have come across" are very scholarly. I will send you my copy, if you don't want to enrich the author's coffers.

Attack the messenger, not the message. Even the Communist Manifesto is interesting reading.

I won't bite on the DOMA issue. I happen to believe that gay people should be allowed to get married.

1 Gays getting married is no threat whatsoever to my heterosexual relationship to my wife.

2 It is pretty peculiar that we marginalize gays on one hand (by forbidding marriage) then hold them up to scorn for acting as marginalized citizens.

3 Religious conservatives need to get the concept of marriage as legal, civil arrangement between two adults for the commingling of property etc. and the sacramental/religious institution. No one (outside possible change within their own denomination) will be forcing the various religious establishments to bless gay unions. I don't imagine that most Christian churches think much of, for example a Buddhist marriage either. Shall we outlaw these as well?

I told you my "political platform" would be interesting.

Regards,

Scott

[SPasse]

Opps..

I meant to say "attack the message, not the messenger.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

I'm sure you realize I was just joking about the Bible discussion stuff but we used to have a lot of fun over in Reef Central's Lounge before they forbid the discussion of religion, politics or current events. All the Bible literalists used to freak out when they were asked to defend certain passages.

Anyway, getting back to equality of rights, you're right that religious sacramental marriage is a freedom of religion issue that should not be regulated by the government. The various religious groups should be free to set their own rules and regulations for the marriages they perform. Secular civil unions that provide the same rights and responsibilities as marriage should be available to all. Whether you call it marriage or a civil union is really not important to most people.

It is interesting to note that Christian Europe is way ahead of the U.S. on this issue, which is one of the reasons Papa Ratzi is freaking out. (P.S. -- I love his explanation for why Turkey should not be allowed to join the E.U. -- Europe is for Christians!!!)

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

I meant to say "attack the message, not the messenger.

Argumentum ad hominem may be a logical fallacy but it is useful in pointing out hypocrisy. I use it all the time against the religious right and the wing-nuts of the Republican Party.

[SPasse]

George,

"I'm sure you realize I was just joking about the Bible discussion stuff but we used to have a lot of fun over in Reef Central's Lounge before they forbid the discussion of religion, politics or current events. All the Bible literalists used to freak out when they were asked to defend certain passages."

No offence taken…

One of my favorite quotes is from Mae West; "People who are easily offended need more practice"

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

"Non-Christians are going straight to hell with a non-stop ticket." -- Pastor John Hagee in his sermon yesterday at San Antonio's Cornerstone Church.

The services were attended by Texas Governor Rick Perry and 60 mostly Republican candidates for tomorrow's midterm elections. Gov. Perry told reporters that he agrees that non-Christians are going straight to hell.

Texas governor's religious remarks slammed

SAN ANTONIO, Nov. 6 (UPI) -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry has drawn criticism from rival candidates for saying he agrees non-Christians are condemned to spend eternity in hell.

[Ninong]

Obviously this woman was not a true believer.

[Ninong]

No wonder the rest of the world thinks we're all a bunch of crackpots. It's bad enough we have a president telling other world leaders that he was chosen by God to lead a crusade but now it seems there are Baptists in North Carolina who are importing teenagers from Poland with the goal of brainwashing them into becoming translators for a Fundamentalist Baptist church they are building in Krakow!

"Things began to go wrong as soon as I arrived in my new home in Winston-Salem, where I was to spend my year abroad. For example, every Monday my host family would gather around the kitchen table to talk about sex. My host parents hadn't had sex for the last 17 years because -- so they told me -- they were devoting their lives to God. They also wanted to know whether I drank alcohol. I admitted that I liked beer and wine. They told me I had the devil in my heart.

"My host parents treated me like a five-year-old. They gave me lollipops. They woke me every Sunday morning at 6:15 a.m., saying 'Michael, it's time to go to church.' I hated that sentence. When I didn't want to go to church one morning, because I had hardly slept, they didn't allow me to have any coffee.

"They wanted me to help them set up a Fundamentalist Baptist church in my home country of Poland. It was God's will, they said. They tried to slip the topic casually into conversation, but it really shocked me -- I realized that was the only reason they had welcomed me into their family. They had already started construction work in Krakow -- I was to help them with translations and with spreading their faith via the media."

Fortunately the young man was able to escape but only after six months of hell with these lunatics.

[schrocat]

Night of the Living Fundies!!!!


Dude's lucky he didn't get bitten.