[sihaya]

Darwin really did make this pros and cons of marriage list when he was 29. I think it's kinda funny...


Marry:


-Children (if it Please God)
-Constant companion (and friend in old age) who will feel interested in one
-Object to be beloved and played with. Better than a dog anyhow
-Home, & someone to take care of house
-Charms of music and female chit-chat
-These things good for one’s health—but terrible loss of time
-My God, it is intolerable to think of spending one’s whole life, like a neuter bee, working, working, and nothing after all—No, no, won’t do
-Imagine living all one’s day solitary in smoky dirty London House
-Only picture to yourself a nice soft wife on a sofa with good fire and books and music perhaps
-Compare this vision with the dingy reality of Great Marlboro Street, London

Not Marry:


-Freedom to go where one liked
-Choice of Society and little of it
-Conversation of clever men at clubs
-Not forced to visit relatives and bend in every trifle
-Expense and anxiety of children
-Perhaps quarrelling
-Loss of Time
-Cannot read in the evenings
-Fatness and idleness
-Anxiety and responsibility
-Less money for books etc.
-If many children forced to gain one’s bread (But then it is very bad for one’s health to work too much)
-Perhaps my wife won’t like London; then the sentence is banishment and degradation into indolent, idle fool

[sihaya]

My favorite part is under not marry, "less money for books." I swear that is has got to be geekiest thing ever said by anyone anywhere. LOL

[smidoid]

Where did you get that from?

[sihaya]

I don't remember where I actually got it, but I know the original is at the Darwin Museum.

[smidoid]

No matter. I'm just having a debate with some idiot who is convinced that Darwin was a wicked atheist. ;-)

[greenbean36191]

Of course he was an athiest. He studied to be a member of the atheist clergy. That's also why he was so quick to publish his book.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by smidoid

No matter. I'm just having a debate with some idiot who is convinced that Darwin was a wicked atheist. ;-)

The truth is that Darwin's views on God and religion changed over the years. In his later years he insisted that he was an agnostic but never an atheist.

If you want to prove that he was a devout Christian, all you have to do is quote from his earlier writings. He dates his turn to agnosticism following the death of his daughter, Annie.

I assume you are already familiar with his biography, but in case you aren't, he was baptized in the Church of England. He attended a Church of England boarding school following the death of his mother when he was only eight years old.

His father, a physician, originally wanted him to be a doctor but he didn't do well in his medical studies, so he enrolled in Christ's College, Cambridge supposedly to become a clergyman. He did well in his theology studies but while at Cambridge he discovered he was more interested in the natural sciences, so he switched to geology while still at Cambridge. Then he got the opportunity to join the voyage of the HMS Beagle.

He was still quite religious in his early life and quoted the Bible often to the crew of the HMS Beagle. It wasn't until he came to realize that the Old Testament was manifestly false in its history of the world and that it didn't conform to his own observations that his views on religion changed. It was not socially acceptable to express such views publicly at that time and Darwin kept his true beliefs quiet until late in life. Even after the death of his daughter, which event he credits with changing his belief in God, he did not make his views public. In his late writings he claims to be an agnostic but specifically denies being an atheist.

To be either a theist or an atheist one has to pretend to have knowledge that is not available. It is far more honest to simply admit that one is "without knowledge."

P.S. -- This topic has come up previously because every now and then one of the fundies comes on with quotes taken out of context or quotes that are simply not true. That's because the fundy press loves to publish all sorts of nonsense in their attacks against science. If you run a search on the board using "Darwin" as the search word and "Ninong" as the poster, you will find previous discussions on this subject. Schrocat and I love to take on the fundies by they usually leave just when we're enjoying ourselves.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by greenbean36191

Of course he was an athiest. He studied to be a member of the atheist clergy. That's also why he was so quick to publish his book.

Yep! We discussed that point previously, too. The fact that he kept his workbooks secret for so long because he couldn't bring himself to publish them because of the impact his views would have on the Church of England. At that point he still hadn't decided that he was an agnostic.



P.S. -- Bean, if you have time to waste, run the search using "Darwin" and check out our previous encounters with representatives of the fundy persuasion.

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by Ninong

To be either a theist or an atheist one has to pretend to have knowledge that is not available. It is far more honest to simply admit that one is "without knowledge."

This has to be the most truthful statement regarding religion that I have ever read.

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by sihaya

My favorite part is under not marry, "less money for books." I swear that is has got to be geekiest thing ever said by anyone anywhere. LOL

Sara, you have something else in mind???

[sihaya]

LOL What?! I have no idea what you're talking about!

I guess I got lucky. My husband and I are both book sluts. We're actually running out of space to put them now. We compete for bookshelf space like two geeks in a dorm room. lol

[Poseidon]

Funny! Stacey and I both read too, I burn through about 2 a month. I give mine away though, I won't ever read a fiction book twice. If they were some sort of reference material I would keep them around.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

This has to be the most truthful statement regarding religion that I have ever read.

"There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds." -- Alfred Lord Tennyson