[schrocat]

Yo Ninong!

I just read the most glowing, sweet, warm and cuddly piece on the misunderstood Mr. Rumsfeld.

I take back anything I said about this great American.

Do you know the author?

[Ninong]

I can't believe it. Who in the world would pay any attention to anything he wrote? That's hilarious. Mr. Office of Special Plans himself. Where's Paul Wolfowitz? Will he be the next one to give us the benefit of his literary genius?

[schrocat]

Wow.

With that odd and transparent PR effort...

I have predictions I fear of posting.





I sure hope nobody mentions to Rove that putting Grampa on the plane might bounce Bush 4 points.

[Ninong]

Did you notice the little condescending dig in Rummy's farewell speech? The part about the War on Terrorism, Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism, Battle Against the Enemies of the Legitimate Iraqi Government War on Terrorism being misunderstood and too complex for the average stupid American to understand.

Rumsfeld reminds me of Yoda in Star Wars. He speaks in circles. Here's one of my favorites:

"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."

And speaking of Sammy bin Laden, how's this for a definitive statement: "We do know of certain knowledge that he is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead." Yep! That pretty much covers all the bases, unless he's on Mars.

Reminds me of the "certain knowledge" they used to get us into Iraq.

Or, how about this one: "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." Not quite as callous as Barbara Bush's response that she can't be bothered wasting her "beautiful mind" thinking about American troop casualties because they're "irrelevant."

And remember that filmed news conference in Baghdad when the Army soldier got up and asked Rumsfeld how much longer they were going to have to scrounge around for discarded pieces of scrap metal to DIY up-armor their vehicles? The whole room broke into applause but the officers on the dais with Rumsfeld looked ashen; then Rumsfeld responded with this piece of kinder, gentler crap: "As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

Hey, Rummy! We have now been in Iraq longer than it took us to win victory in Europe in World War II. We managed to build tens of thousands of planes, tanks, trucks and artillery pieces during that time. How come you can't provide armored Humvees or adequate armor plates for vests? How come Halliburton serves contaminated food?

Here's another gem: "I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."

"It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." -in Feb. 2003

"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." -asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress (You can say that again!)

"I don't do quagmires."

"I don't do diplomacy."

"I don't do foreign policy."

"I don't do predictions."

"I don't do numbers."

"I don't do book reviews."

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by schrocat

Wow.

With that odd and transparent PR effort...

I have predictions I fear of posting.

Are you sure I haven't already posted the same prediction?

I sure hope nobody mentions to Rove that putting Grampa on the plane might bounce Bush 4 points.

I think they're getting ready to throw Grampa under the bus. Or off the train.

P.S. -- Are you talking about Big Time or Rumsfelled? And if you're talking about Rummy, are you talking about Germany or the Hague?

P.P.S. -- Does Paraguay recognize the ICC? Not now!

[Ninong]

I may have been a little hesitant to predict that the Democrats would sweep the midterm elections so convincingly (I predicted only 20 House seats and three Senate seats seven months ago) but I have no trouble whatsoever predicting the consequences.

[SPasse]

Hi All,

Back to the title of this thread.

Do you think that Mr. Rumsfeld (or anyone else) will be extradited?

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

Do you think that Mr. Rumsfeld (or anyone else) will be extradited?

No, of course not.

What if the Germans started doing what the Bush Administration has already done and what the Israelis did when they picked up Adolph Eichmann? What if someone in the U.S. suddenly disappeared and ended up in a secret prison somewhere in a foreign country for "robust interrogation?"

To get back to your question, no, no one will be extradited because we don't recognize international law unless we agree with it. And in this case, it's not even an international law, it's a German law that claims to give Germany jurisdiction to adjudicate violations of international law in Germany.

However, look at what happened with Pinochet. And now that he's finally back in Chile, it looks like he may be forced to stand trial there in spite of his age. It is quite possible that Rumsfeld et alii may have to choose their overseas vacation destinations with care in the future.

What happens if charges are brought in the ICC?

Then what?

Not that we would recognize the ICC, but wouldn't it be embarrassing nonetheless?

P.S. -- As far as international law is concerned, John Ashcroft's Justice Department wrote a memo (probably authored by John Yoo) advising the president that he is not restrained by international law in the exercise of his unitary executive powers. In fact, it is the position of Bush's Justice Department that he is not even restrained by the Congress in the exercise of his unitary Executive powers, which is why he likes to attach his Signing Statements to almost every bill he signs warning us that he will follow the law only if it doesn't interfere with his responsibilites as he sees them. I don't know why the Administration fought so hard against John McCain's anti-torture bill because when Bush signed it, he attached a signing statement promising that he would violate it if he felt it was in the national interest. He's the Decider.

We recognize treaties only so long as we agree with them. When a treaty no longer fits in with the goals of the current administration, we simply abrogate it, as President Bush did in December 2001 with the ABM treaty, or we try to redefine individual words and phrases, as he is trying to do with the Geneva Conventions. If that succeeds, what's to stop each and every signatory country from coming up with a different interpretation?

Why did Bush buy 100,000 98,840 acres in Paraguay recently?

[schrocat]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Why did Bush buy 100,000 98,840 acres in Paraguay recently?

Timber speculatin'.

[Ninong]

Bush didn't buy 100,000 acres in Paraguay. It was only 98,840 acres! It's held in a land trust.

It's all over the South American press:

Here’s a version from Brazil.

Here’s one from Argentina.

• The Paraguayan Senate voted last summer to “grant U.S. troops immunity from national and International Criminal Court (ICC) jurisdiction.”

• Immediately afterwards, 500 heavily armed U.S. troops arrived with various planes, choppers and land vehicles at Mariscal Estigarribia air base, which happens to be at the northern tip of Paraguay near the Bolivian/Brazilian border. More have reportedly arrived since then.

Here’s a fun question for Tony Snow: Why might the president and his family need a 98,840-acre ranch in Paraguay protected by a semi-secret U.S. military base manned by American troops who have been exempted from war-crimes prosecution by the Paraguayan government?



Here’s a little background on the base itself, which Rumsfeld secretly visited in late 2005:

U.S. Special Forces began arriving this past summer at Paraguay’s Mariscal Estigarribia air base, a sprawling complex built in 1982 during the reign of dictator Alfredo Stroessner. Argentinean journalists who got a peek at the place say the airfield can handle B-52 bombers and Galaxy C-5 cargo planes. It also has a huge radar system, vast hangers, and can house up to 16,000 troops. The air base is larger than the international airport at the capital city, Asuncion.

Some 500 special forces arrived July 1 for a three-month counterterrorism training exercise, code named Operation Commando Force 6.

Paraguayan denials that Mariscal Estigarribia is now a U.S. base have met with considerable skepticism by Brazil and Argentina. There is a disturbing resemblance between U.S. denials about Mariscal Estigarribia, and similar disclaimers made by the Pentagon about Eloy Alfaro airbase in Manta, Ecuador. The United States claimed the Manta base was a “dirt strip” used for weather surveillance. When local journalists revealed its size, however, the United States admitted the base harbored thousands of mercenaries and hundreds of U.S. troops, and Washington had signed a 10-year basing agreement with Ecuador.

[schrocat]

Having attended Catholic school as a youngster...

I'd advise Shrub to be afraid...be VERY afraid.

[Ninong]

Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest

Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today (Sunday, Oct. 28, 2007) fearing arrest over charges of “ordering and authorizing” torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military’s detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.

US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush’s “war on terror” for six years.

Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil.

According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting “murderer” and “war criminal” at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary’s whereabouts citing “security reasons”.

Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activists point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive.

“Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down,” activist Tanguy Richard said. “He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn’t pay.”

International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris.

P.S. -- Now Rummy has something in common with Henry Kissinger, who is being sought by officials in France, Brazil, Chile, Spain and Argentina for questioning about war crimes he may have committed, hindering his travel abroad.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

Hi All,

Back to the title of this thread.

Do you think that Mr. Rumsfeld (or anyone else) will be extradited?

Regards,

Scott

I wonder if the DGSE would have waterboarded Rummy?

[Ninong]

Dept. of Better Late Than Never

The mainstream media is finally picking up on the Rumsfeld story three days after the fact. They're reporting it as breaking news.