[Ninong]

I posted this in another thread but I now think it deserves it's own thread. I hate to even put this up but here goes.



P.S. -- That is so sad for so many different reasons! That has to be one of the most disturbing videos I have ever seen come out of Iraq. What have we become???

[Poseidon]

In another video on that site, kids throw rocks at our trucks.... I wonder if we would act with more compassion if the kids would still be trowing rocks...

You are right George, that video is very disturbing.

[schrocat]

Can't get there from here...what is it?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by schrocat

Can't get there from here...what is it?

It is a very disturbing YouTube video clip that shows young Iraqi boys (all under the age of 12) running after an American military truck. The video is shot from inside the truck. An American serviceman is holding out a bottle of bottled drinking water as if he's about to hand it out to the young children. The truck is moving just fast enough to keep ahead of the desperate young boys who are running behind it begging for the bottled water. It goes on for at least three or four blocks until the children can't run anymore. At the end, the bottle of water is dropped from the rear of the truck but the one little boy who ran the whole way doesn't get it. Some other kids who happened to be standing there get it. That last little boy who ran for at least four blocks is no more than 7 or 8 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!

The soundtrack is extremely disturbing -- laughter and comments from the Americans speculating on just how far the Iraqi children will run before they can't run any longer. They are constantly taunting these young boys and telling them to run faster, "come on and get it," etc. All the while they are laughing at them and cracking jokes among themselves about how desperate these kids are.

It's the sickest video I have ever seen!

P.S. -- It came from America Blog. I just watched it a second time and I think I'm about to get sick. Seriously, I have to stop posting for a while. I'm sick to my stomach!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SPasse]

George,

Here is one that may be even worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkXu1UVTSzU&NR

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Scott, that video clip is old news. I'm pretty sure the Brits have already identified the participants and taken disciplinary action. That was months ago. (P.S. -- Now that I think about it some more, I remember that they identified the videographer based on his voice but I'm not sure if they ever figured out which soldiers did the beatings.)

I still think the one I just posted today is extremely disturbing because it shows just how callous some of our young men have become. How anyone could taunt young children like that is beyond my comprehension.

It's also more evidence of the failure of command in the U.S. military. This was not one individual. It was at the very minimum three individuals: The one holding the bottle of water, the one he was talking to and the driver of the truck. So it wasn't the random act of one bad apple. It was acceptable conduct to all three (or more) servicemen in that truck and, since they videotaped it to share with their buddies, they obviously thought it would be acceptable behavior to others. I can't tell whether they are soldiers or Marines from the brief partial view of the helmet, but it really doesn't matter. They are Americans and that's all that matters.

What have we become? What has this corrupt Bush Administration done to us as a country? How will history judge us?

[SPasse]

George,

Sorry about the stale video clip. I don’t get out much as I would like these days.

Well as a European History Buff, WWII in particular, I would just say that solders do bad things during wars, especially protracted wars.

In “Band of Brothers” the story of the 101st Airborne/Easy Company in WWII, there in an officer that is known to his men as someone who executes unarmed prisoners. I have no reason to discount this example as being fictions.

You could talk about Dresden, The fire bombing of Tokyo, Hiroshima & Nagasaki etc.

We perpetrated genocide against the American Indians, etc.

We treated our Civil War prisoners of war abominably. (Both North & South)

On the whole, though I believe that American servicemen treat the “natives” as well as any “occupying army” has ever done.

I am no going to defend Bush’s stance on “aggressive interrogation” etc. which I find abhorrent, unnecessary and counterproductive.

I am also not saying that this particular incident should not be investigated/prosecuted… just that I wouldn’t try to draw any overall conclusions about the moral state of our US servicemen, based on this video.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

I am also not saying that this particular incident should not be investigated/prosecuted… just that I wouldn’t try to draw any overall conclusions about the moral state of our US servicemen, based on this video.

I think there is sufficient evidence to support the argument that our civilian military leadership and our top commanders in Iraq have been lacking in moral judgment. There have been coverups of serious incidents, much more serious that this, at the highest levels of command in both the Army and the Marine Corps. This could not happen without the approval of the Secretary of Defense.

In this specific incident, the enlisted men involved should be subjected to an Article 15. Their company commander should be called on the carpet by the battalion commander. That's the very least that should happen.

This is just one more example of a failure of command at every level in Iraq! And it started at the top -- the very top!

[SPasse]

George,

“This is just one more example of a failure of command at every level in Iraq! And it started at the top -- the very top!”

Well that is hard to argue…

Regards,

Scott

[mistermikev]

no excuse but try to remember people handle stress in unusuall ways. made me sick as well... we need more honorable people like ninong in the army... volunteers?
can't imagine what I'd be doing to try and stay sane over there... hopefully not that.

[Samper]

I was in the airborne infantry and trained with the special forces for a year. I never had to go fight but I heard plenty of first hand stories from guys in my units. One such story involved a young boy and in the middle of nowhere. A platoon of the 82nd airborne was out on patrol in the mountains when they came up on a boy about 8 years old by himself. He was about 200 yards ahead of the patrol and the commander ordered the patrol to halt for some reason. As they did so the boy turned around and began to trot toward them. As he got closer his speed increased steadily until he was at a dead sprint. When this boy was about 50 yards from the patrol for some reason the commander ordered his gunner to fire. I don't know what exactly made him issue this order but it is a good thing that he did. My friend told me that he cut that little boy almost in half with a 240 bravo. The boy had enough remote detonated explosives strapped to his body to completely destroy the first 3 armored vehicles. The man I was talking to was the gunner on that patrol and he was being outprocessed due to mental problems that he has dealt with since the incident. Although he was having problems he was thankful at saving the lives of the men in his unit. I still keep in touch with him and he has told me almost two years after the fact that he still doesn't trust or like anyone who looks like they're from that part of the world. Daily while driving he still catches himself looking at garbage by the road and tensing up while driving past it expecting an explosion. Daily this guy scans rooftops right here in the USA just to make sure someone isn't on one with an rpg or ak aimed in his general direction. I've never been put in a situation like that but I suspect that if many of you had to deal with them daily as some of our soldiers do, you might act in ways that most people would consider strange or even cruel. From watching the video I feel that these soldiers were being downright mean since it is obvious that those boys didn't mean any harm however that patrol might have turned a corner to find another set of boys with a completely different agenda. I don't want to argue about this but stories like the one I just told aren't heard every day.

[mistermikev]

wow thanks for sharing that. helps to remeber these men and women are putting their lives on the line for what some might consider the wrong reasons(myself included). I don't respect them any less for it and believe a good man can never do wrong. Thank you for serving. I'm sorry about your friend.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

From watching the video I feel that these soldiers were being downright mean since it is obvious that those boys didn't mean any harm...

Yes, it's obvious that they were being mean. And cruel. And acting like a bunch or ignorant pendejos! There was no excuse for that behavior!

...however that patrol might have turned a corner to find another set of boys with a completely different agenda.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the incident that was videotaped.

I don't want to argue about this but stories like the one I just told aren't heard every day.

Of course they're heard every day. I've been hearing them for the past 50-something years! They come up every time "a few bad apples" do something wrong and get caught. A variation on this theme was the excuse given for My Lai. That's why Lt. Calley ordered his men to machine gun old men, women and children, including infants -- more than 300 of them. If there were mitigating circumstances, they can bring them up during the sentencing phase. We are responsible for our actions.

There is no excuse for the sort of callous behavior we saw in that videotape. None! Just as there was no excuse for My Lai and no excuse for Abu Ghraib. And there was no excuse for raping and murdering that 14-yr-old Iraqi girl and murdering her parents and her 6-yr-old sister. It's up to the court to determine the appropriate consequences but the actions themselves were inexcusable under any circumstances. Why should a few idiots be allowed to tarnish the reputation of the 101st Airborne? I'm sure the few veterans of Bastogne who are still alive are not all that thrilled to read crap like that about men in their unit.

We have to accept responsibility for our actions as individuals. It's bad enough we have a corrupt administration that is destroying us as a country and ruining our reputation worldwide for decades to come, we don't have to help them out by behaving like idiots.