[SPasse]

Hi All,

"Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Quran."

What do you think?

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

What if he chooses to take the oath of office while holding a copy of My Pet Goat? Would it be any less authentic or official?

Perhaps you could point out where it says that a Congressperson must take the oath of office on the Bible?

This is just another example of the Christianist right making something out of nothing. Members of Congress are not required to use a Bible or any other book when taking the oath of office. Many members choose to hold a Bible in one hand while raising their right hand and swearing to uphold the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about placing either hand on the Bible or any other book.

So where's the controversy? Instead of "multiculturalism runs amok," perhaps the topic title should be xenophobia runs amok or right-wing religious crackpots are trying to stir up "the base" over a make-believe issue?

P.S. -- I just double-checked and neither the Christian Bible nor any other religious text has ever been used in the official swearing-in ceremony. All those pictures you see of Congresspersons posing with their right hand raised and their left hand on the Bible are just photo ops! Nothing more!

[Ninong]

House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) is sworn in last year by Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) with his hand on the rostrum.

[Ninong]

America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on

By Dennis Prager
Tuesday, November 28, 2006

Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran.

He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.



You can read the rest of this moron's rant here.

P.S. -- Whatever happened to that "freedom of religion" stuff? If there were a requirement that a Bible be used, that would be an establishment of religion, which is a no-no; but, as we all know -- well, most of us know -- there is no such requirement.

[Ninong]

"So why are we allowing Keith Ellison to do what no other member of Congress has ever done -- choose his own most revered book for his oath?"

What the hell is he talking about? The Bible is NOT part of the official swearing-in ceremony and NEVER has been. The Constitution says nothing about placing your hand on the Bible or carrying a Bible or anything at all about a Bible:

Article VI

All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

[Ninong]

Maybe Dennis Prager's right? Maybe allowing a non-Christian, especially a liberal Muslim, to enter the House of Representatives will cause God to destroy us? I'll have to ask Pat Robertson about that. I'm sure he'll know the answer.

In the meantime, I figured I would see what the Bible says we should do with this non-believer who is trying to impose his God on our Christian country. I'll bet we're supposed to stone him to death or burn him at the stake or smite him with our swords.

OK, here's what the Bible says we should do with non-believers who try to change things according to Deuteronomy:

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. (This probably only applies to the 5th Congressional District in Minnesota and not the entire state but I would have to ask Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell about that to be sure.)

16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

OK, so there you have it: all three! Stone him to death, smite them all with our swords and burn the place to the ground so that it shall not be built again. I figured we would get to stone him at least, I had no idea we would get to smite his supporters with our swords and burn the whole Minnesota 5th Congressional District to the ground. Wow!

[SPasse]

George,

I used "just" the part of Dennis Prager's article that that was a statement of fact. I purposely did not include his position on the using the Bible as part of a swearing-in ceremony.

I just wanted to kick off a discussion.

Here is another piece of scripture that Christians often overlook.

Matthew 5:33-37

Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord." {34} But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: {35} Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. {36} Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. {37} But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Since neither the Bible nor any other book is required as part of the official ceremony, I see no reason for this topic to be a topic at all. The only reason it has become a topic of interest now is not because of the "announced" intentions of Keith Ellison but because of the stunning religious intolerance, ignorance, hypocrisy, bigotry and hatred it revealed among the so-called conservative Christian movement. This comes as no surprise to those of us who have been dealing with these morons for decades but when the stuff gets so deep and the stink gets so bad that it just erupts like an uncontrollable volcano of ignorance and hate that can't be ignored by even the most sensory-deprived among us, then it's a topic of interest.

The same crowd that runs around preaching about "religious freedom" now wants to deny that freedom to someone who doesn't practice their approved version of religion. That figures. These are the same people who preach about the sins of gay marriage while indulging in the joys of gay sex with their paid gay hustlers. I'll bet Ted Haggard's wife had no idea she's been living in a gay marriage since day one. That's understandable if she's as dense as the rest of the flock.

Anyone who couldn't see that Pastor Ted was lying through his teeth in his first televised statements denying his involvement with Mike Jones ("What did you say his name was again?") is capable of believing just about anything. They probably believe that he bought meth only once and then threw it away, too. No wonder Daddy Dobson bowed out of the "restoration process." It's pretty difficult to get a congenital liar to start telling the truth, as Daddy Dobson knows all too well.

I have to keep reminding myself that these are the people who were taken in by Ralph Reed, who was paid millions by casinos to work against other casinos. And who still had the nerve to run for elected office in Georgia.

Sometimes I forget that these are the same people who were scammed by the likes of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker. The same people who were conned by that creepy pervert Jimmy Swaggart, who has had more hookers in cheap Airline Hwy motel rooms than Randy Cunningham ever had at the Watergate. The same people who are scammed by the con artists on Trinity Broadcasting Network's many TV shows without giving any thought to the fact that the founder of TBN is as gay as they come. Sometimes I forget just how gullible these people really are -- they just keep sending in their "grocery money" so that people like Paul Crouch and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell can get richer and richer, and, in the case of Falwell, fatter and fatter.

These are the same people who believe that Jeff Gannon was granted daily passes to the White House under an assumed name because of his journalistic prowess. The same people who would pay good money for a "Book of Virtues" written by that big fat gambling addict, Jabba the Hutt Bill Bennett. The same people who thought Michael "Brownie" Brown was qualified to be head of FEMA. The same people who think George W. Bush is the most intelligent president in the history of the nation.

The same people who are too stupid to realize that the Bush Administration, like their own fundamentalist leadership, is playing them for suckers!

Oh, well... If it weren't for stupid people, the rest of us would feel stupid, too. Fortunately there will always be others who are really and truly stupid so that we can feel good about ourselves in spite of our stupidity.

P.S. -- I left out one: They're the same people who think Fox News is fair and balanced and that Bill O'Reilly knows what he's talking about.

P.P.S. -- The White House just announced National Ted Haggard Awareness Day.

[SPasse]

Hi All,

I can not take exception with much anything that Ninong has just posted. TBN in particular, has been one of my favorite "love to hate" targets.

Even many "genuine" "fundamentalist Christians" despise Paul Crouch's TBN.

Amazon.com: Christianity in Crisis: Books: Hank Hanegraaff

Amazon.com: Counterfeit Revival: Books: Hank Hanegraaff

But let's not forget that if Islamic extremists ever gain significant influence in the US, their brand of Sherea law might make our present "issues" with the current "flavor" of Christian fundamentalism, seem rather quaint.

Islam Watch - Islam under scrutiny by ex-Muslims - Telling the truth about Islam

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

There is no danger of Islamic extremists ever taking over and instituting Sharia law in this country, just as there was no danger of communism taking over in this country in the 1950's. It won't happen in our society.

People should be free to believe, or not believe, whatever they choose as long as they don't try to force their "beliefs" on the rest of us. Anyone who thinks that our culture would willingly accept Sharia law is smoking something. Sharia law cannot survive in a democratic society. Unless we're on the losing side of some future worldwide nuclear war, Sharia law is not going to happen over here.

In fact, Sharia law won't even survive in backward nations like Afghanistan once the population becomes more educated and more prosperous. Just as Russia and China have abandoned communism, Iran will one day overthrow the clerical hierarchy that runs the country. All it will take is a general improvement in the education and welfare of the population as a whole. Support for the current structure comes almost entirely from the less prosperous and less educated segments of Iranian society.

One of the consequences of free trade will be the destruction of undemocratic regimes worldwide. All totalitarian regimes eventually fail because they are inefficient. Just as you can't sell snow to the eskimos and you can't sell communism to homeowners, you won't be able to sell Sharia law to a population that includes educated women.

[Ninong]

Colling said Ellison's office has received hundreds of "very bigoted and racist" e-mails and phone calls since Prager's column appeared. "The vast majority said, 'You should resign from office if you're not willing to use the book our country was founded on,' " Colling said.

"Requiring somebody to take an oath of office on a religious text that's not his" violates the Constitution, said Kevin Hasson, president of The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.

Members of the House of Representatives traditionally raise their right hands and are sworn in together on the floor of the chamber. The ritual sometimes seen as the swearing-in is actually a ceremonial photo op with the speaker of the House that usually involves a Bible.

"They can bring in whatever they want," says Fred Beuttler, deputy historian of the House.

Prager, who is Jewish, wrote that no Mormon elected official has "demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon." But Republican Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon, carried a volume of Mormon scriptures that included the Bible and the Book of Mormon at his swearing-in ceremony in 1997.

You can read the full article here.

P.S. -- Several of our earliest presidents did NOT use a Bible for their swearing-in ceremony.

P.P.S. -- Is this going to be this year's "war on Christmas?" I'll have to check with the Falafel King (The Factor Actor) to find out if he's withdrawing troops from the war on Christmas to send them into battle against the Muslim hordes who are threatening to take over Congress and undermine American civilization.

[schrocat]

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

Hi All,

"Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Quran."

What do you think?

Regards,

Scott

Looks like Republican hero, Roy Moore, former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, agrees with the other extreme wingnuts of the Republican Party that Congressman-elect Ellison must be kept out of the U.S. House of Representatives by whatever means necessary. You might remember Judge Moore. He's the guy who was removed from office after he refused to remove a Ten Commandments monument that he had installed in the Alabama judicial building in the middle of the night.

Judge Moore does NOT believe in freedom of religion. He believes that this is a Christian nation and anybody who's not Christian should just get the hell out. Nowhere in our Constitution, according to Republican idol Roy Moore, does it say that we should allow someone who refuses to take the oath of office on the Christian Bible to become a member of Congress, everyone knows this.

He compares it to taking the oath of office on Mein Kampf! What is it with the looney fringe of the GOP that they are so obsessed with the Nazis? Is Pat Buchanan writing their blogs for them? BTW, did you see where Tom DeLay admitted that he has never written any of his blogs, either on his own blog or on Red State? He employs ghost bloggers to write his blog entries for him but he "provides the ideas." He said that's because he's "very bad with words."

Judge Moore, in his own very bad words, from WingNutDaily:

Enough evidence exists for Congress to question Ellison's qualifications to be a member of Congress as well as his commitment to the Constitution in view of his apparent determination to embrace the Quran and an Islamic philosophy directly contrary to the principles of the Constitution. But common sense alone dictates that in the midst of a war with Islamic terrorists we should not place someone in a position of great power who shares their doctrine. In 1943, we would never have allowed a member of Congress to take their oath on "Mein Kampf," or someone in the 1950s to swear allegiance to the "Communist Manifesto." Congress has the authority and should act to prohibit Ellison from taking the congressional oath today!

Judge Moore brings up a good point by referencing 1943 and World War II. Maybe we should check with Michelle Malkin, Our Lady of the Concentration Camps, to see if we should demand that all Muslims be rounded up and incarcerated?

If Congress wants to prohibit somebody from taking the oath, they could start with William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson. I am so sick and tired of his phony act down here "thanking God Almighty for making it happen."

And speaking of the Nazis, did anyone else catch uber Nazi David Duke on CNN this afternoon? I can't believe Wolf Blitzer gave this despicable scumbag airtime.

[Ninong]

Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA) warns us that the election of Muslim representative-elect Keith Ellison is a sign that the U.S. must act quickly to close its borders to guard against the influx of still more Muslims.

Congressman Goode sent out a short email to a select group of supporters warning about the dangers our country faces from the impending Muslim hordes bent on destroying "the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America." We should act now to "adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration" or "there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office."

OMG! I had no idea. All this time I thought we believed in freedom of religion and freedom from religion. I had no idea that certain religions did not qualify! Thank God Brother Virgil is fighting to keep the Muslim hordes from invading our shores. I wonder if Brother Virgil is aware that representative-elect Ellison is from Detroit? It seems he invaded Minnesota from neighboring Michigan. Does that count as an invasion? I'll have to check with Pat Robertson on that but I suspect that it does.

Here is a copy of the email Congressman Goode sent to his select supporters, including the chair of the local Sierra Club chapter!

Thank you for your recent communication. When I raise my hand to take the oath on Swearing In Day, I will have the Bible in my other hand. I do not subscribe to using the Koran in any way. The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran. We need to stop illegal immigration totally and reduce legal immigration and end the diversity visas policy pushed hard by President Clinton and allowing many persons from the Middle East to come to this country. I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America and to prevent our resources from being swamped.

The Ten Commandments and “In God We Trust” are on the wall in my office. A Muslim student came by the office and asked why I did not have anything on my wall about the Koran. My response was clear, “As long as I have the honor of representing the citizens of the 5th District of Virginia in the United States House of Representatives, The Koran is not going to be on the wall of my office.” Thank you again for your email and thoughts.

[Ninong]

The mainstream media has picked up on Virgil Goode's little hate filled letter to his constituents telling them that our American way of life is threatened by Keith Ellison being allowed to hold the Koran in his left hand instead of the Bible when he takes the oath of office next month.

Congressman Goode "stands by his comments."

P.S. -- Whoever sent it to that Sierra Club guy is going to get fired!

[Ninong]

CNN had Virgil Goode, Duncan Hunter and Keith Ellison on the Situtation Room this afternoon. Virgil Goode is proud of his bigotry and GOP presidential candidate Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) defended Goode's position on not allowing any elected officials to use any holy book other than the Christian Bible. He was obviously pandering to the right-wing Christianist extremists. He misrepresented the photo-op that shows the Speaker posed with each individual Member of the House as an "official" ceremony. He knows better than that. He knows the only official ceremony is the one that takes place on the floor of the House when the Members raise their right hands to swear or affirm to uphold the Constitution.

He lied again when he insisted that the Bible has been the only book used for this purpose. A Jewish congresswoman from Florida contradicted him on that point by saying that she didn't use the Bible. He went on to say that presidents have been sworn in on Christian Bibles, which is not correct. Not all presidents have used a Bible as part of their swearing in ceremony. Here is the official list and, as you can see, not all presidents used a Bible.


__________________________________________________ _____________
We're going to bring back God and the Bible and drive the gods of secular humanism right out of the public schools of America. -- Pat Buchanan, GOP presidential candidate, Feb. 11, 1996.

[Ninong]

Virgil Goode's macaca moment

Rep. Goode is mistaken. Not all of his constituents are narrow-minded bigots.


Virgil Goode isn't about to apologize for his racist diatribe that equates Muslims with illegal immigrants and terrorists. He shouldn't apologize for his beliefs because that would just pile the sin of hypocrisy onto the heap of bigotry.

But his constituents in Virginia's 5th Congressional District should be hopping mad, because Goode now has the nation believing that they are as small-minded as he is.

Goode never intended for everyone to know that he fears now that one Muslim has been elected to Congress, illegal immigrants and terrorists will pour over our boundaries. His letter -- the one that has made national news for a few days running -- was intended to go out to only his xenophobic supporters.

One copy mistakenly went to a non-supporter in what Goode's office claimed was a "clerical error." Too late. They couldn't take it back or deny it. Instead, Goode defends his stance and claims it mirrors his constituents' views.

Would that include his thousand or so constituents of Arab descent? Or those of African descent who make up about 23 percent of his district?

They can keenly recall a Virginia that tried to bar them from entering "white" society with the same repugnant fears.

Do the residents of the 5th District share Goode's modern-day bigotry? If so, do they think Goode is one of them? Really, that affinity has been his appeal throughout his political career.

The people of his district look the other way when he gets wrapped up in a campaign finance scandal; they excuse him in Martinsville where the town is on the hook to pay back a substantial grant because of a Goode scheme with disgraced MZM officials. They have forgiven him so easily because they believe good-old Goode is "one of us."

Goode certainly seems to think he's among like-minded folks. As long as he insulates himself with people who reflect his thoughts and avoids those who would challenge him to rethink his biases, there's no reason for him to believe differently.

Every broad-minded thinker in the 5th District must cringe at the thought of outsiders believing Goode is representative of them.

Goode's got another two years in Congress, but his constituents will have little representation during that time. No one, other than of a handful of his bigoted supporters, will ever take Goode seriously again. Not that he'll notice.

[Ninong]

Hey, Virgil! Did you know that two Buddhists were just elected to Congress? According to that Wikipedia entry, they will be the first Buddhists to serve in the United States Congress.

Not only that, Virgil, but this one is a woman who was born in a foreign country!!! I'll bet she doesn't even talk like you. Heck, you're the only person I know of who talks like you.