[Ninong]

Burmese python numbers in the Everglades are growing. More than 150 of them were removed in the past year. They could take over as top predator.

Check out this article.

[Penguin]

Very sad.

I wonder if there are other viable populations of released pythons in other parts of the country that we don't know about yet. I doubt if the Everglades is the only place where people have released them. What about all the stupid pet owners that don't live in/near Florida?

Note: invasivespecies.gov seems to be down for maintenance

[Ninong]

We all hate government regulation but maybe some regulations are in order if the pet industry is going to import thousands of Burmese pythons into the country every year? One proposal is that prospective buyers would have to get a license before purchasing a Burmese python and the snake itself would have one of those tiny microchips implanted in it for identification purposes. The microchip number would be recorded as belonging to you. That way you could be held responsible if the snake "gets away" later on.

We know from the marine aquarium hobby that we cannot expect the vendors to police anything. They still sell nurse sharks, for example. That's absurd! They will sell whatever the public will buy. I suspect the same is true for the rest of the pet industry.

My nephew lives just three blocks from the Everglades National Park. His subdivision backs up to the park. I'm sure he's not interested in having any 20-ft long Burmese pythons in his back yard.

P.S. -- I suspect the pet industry will not like the idea of licenses and microchips all that much because it will almost certainly have the very good side effect of reducing sales of these snakes.

[Penguin]

I was thinking about the parallel with nurse sharks too. I'm amazed that I still see them for sale somewhat regularly.

I think the python microchips are a good idea in theory. But some unethical owners/dealers might not be above a little home "surgery" before release. Or they might just euthanize them (better for the native ecosystem, but not really fair or humane for the animal IMO).

[Ninong]

It's hard for me to imagine what goes through the heads of people who buy pet Burmese pythons or pet caimans or pet nurse sharks. If they are irresponsible enough to purchase such animals in the first place, they probably can't be counted on to do the "right" thing when the time comes.

Unfortunately, in the case of Burmese pythons, the right thing would be to euthanize the snake rather than releasing it into the Everglades. They shouldn't have bought it in the first place but if they can't keep it and they can't find a new "home" for it, they have no other choice but to euthanize it.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I was thinking about the parallel with nurse sharks too. I'm amazed that I still see them for sale somewhat regularly.

About five years ago, I had a thread on the board discussing this topic and I posted links to three or four online vendors who were selling nurse sharks, black-tip and white-tip reef sharks and even blue ringed octopuses. At that time the typical price for a black-tip reef shark was only $500-$600.

Here is what I found just now:

This vendor is offering black-tip and white-tip reef sharks for $1,199 each and Wobbegongs for $249.99 each.

P.S. -- Adult length for white-tip reef sharks is 12', adult length for black-tip reef sharks is 6'. Adult length for the Wobbegong species that place is selling is only 3' but some species can get to 10' in length. Adult length for nurse sharks is 14'.

[Ninong]

This vendor recommends nurse sharks!

Nurse Sharks for Sale

Nurse Sharks are a getting more popular every day with many Aquarist. Being a Bottom Feeder they are easy to care for and like a meaty diet.

[Ninong]

And, believe it or not, Pets Warehouse is still selling blue ringed octopuses for only $29 each.

[schrocat]

Originally Posted by Ninong

And, believe it or not, Pets Warehouse is still selling blue ringed octopuses for only $29 each.

[Ninong]

There are two ways to look at this. One way is to just go with the flow. Blue ringed octopuses perform a valuable service by eliminating the less desirable elements from the gene pool, especially if they are sold without warning labels.

In fact, maybe it would be a good idea to simply remove the warning labels from everything and let nature take its course.



P.S. -- Why do they have to warn you that sleeping pills "may cause drowsiness?"

[zhenya]

We all hate government regulation but maybe some regulations are in order if the pet industry is going to import thousands of Burmese pythons into the country every year?

I have to agree with that and I think making sale of this snakes illegal would be the prudent thing to do. Inserting microchips and such will do nothing, I think. Closing down stores that sell them, if caught, would do wonders.

What's up with people anyway? Why do you want to keep a nurse, or reef shark as a pet?

It's like building a gazillion gallons reeftank in the house, I guess. If you can do it why not?

[zhenya]

Originally Posted by Ninong

P.S. -- Why do they have to warn you that sleeping pills "may cause drowsiness?"

Yeah really...

[Ninong]

Remember five years ago when I nominated this guy for Moron of the Month because he was keeping a nurse shark in a 72-gal bowfront tank? And this was no rank amateur, he was running a commercial website offering aquarium advice and selling aquarium products. His mission statement on his website: "This site is created with the 'Beginner Aquarist' in mind."

The thread turned into a flame fest because some members thought it was unkind to criticize other members for keeping nurse sharks in 72-gal tanks. And then someone notified the "moron" himself who took exception to our nominating him for this prestigious award.

P.S. -- Don't anybody post to that old thread or he'll be back. I just checked his profile and he hasn't been on the board since 8/1/2001.

[Penguin]

Another article about the Burmese python problem:

Biologists in pursuit of*exotic, voracious foe - CNN.com

[Ninong]

Excerpt:

Since 2000, slightly more than 1 million pythons have been imported by the United States for commercial sale; nearly half are shipped to Miami, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service says.

Python hatchlings, which can cost as little as $20 at a flea market, tickle armchair herpetologists. "They're so darling when they're tiny," Oberhofer says. "Later, the big attraction at home is being able to watch your python kill something -- like a rat -- and gobble it whole in its tank."

Soon, however, the python gets bigger than the kids. (Pythons, fed a steady diet of mice, squirrels and rabbits, grow 6 to 8 feet, or bigger, within a year.) When this happens, owners try to sell or give away their pets but cannot find them new homes. Unwilling to euthanize their beloveds, many release pythons into the wild, unaware of the ecological havoc they may bring.

Which brings to Oberhofer's mind a story about Guam, where she once worked with other biologists.

"Two exotic species were introduced there," she says, "the brown-tree snake and a little lizard that the snake liked to eat. Well, the lizards multiplied like crazy, which meant that the brown-tree snake had so much to eat it proliferated" -- and consumed many other species.

Today, Guam's forests have gone silent, she says. "The brown-tree snakes ate the native birds and bats to extinction. Those birds are found only in zoos now."

[SPasse]

Hi All,

There are any number of pets where either the mortality rate or the long term growth implications should preclude their “general availability."

1 Baby Green Eared Sliders Tuttle (Trachemys scripta elegans) were killed my the millions by kids who subjected them to slow starvation etc. in the typical “turtle bowls”. Specimens given adequate care grew to creatures that created a lot of wastes and/or required aggressive filtration systems etc. Sales of baby turtles were banned for some number of years, but this law must have expired. At least they seem to be commonly available again. The ban was enacted because of widespread salmonella cases.

2 Common Green Iguana (Iguana iguana) Large mortality (although they are not actually too hard to care for. They also grow to an large size. I had a friend that converted a bathroom (with skylight) to an Iguana cage, but that is obviously the rare exception.

3 True chameleons. (various species) Large mortality. Diet, housing, etc. requirements not met in most cases. Imported specimens (as opposed to captive bred) usually had parasite loads that doomed them when the factors of bad care and rough treatment during import were added together.

Regards,

Scott