[wozza]

well im off to bed its 4:30AM over here i have no idea why im up this late but i guess i sould sleep now even tho im not tired.

[SPasse]

Hi All,

The issue as I see it is that whenever any religion crosses some X percentage of control over a government and/or person’s everyday life, it seems to always degenerate into a force that “empowers” people to do some very “un-virtuous” things.

This was as true for medieval Christianity as is for radical Islam today.

As much as I dislike contemporary commercial secularism, its one useful effect is to keep religious extremism at bay. It would seem as if scientific enlightenment is too demanding for the masses.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by SPasse

This was as true for medieval Christianity as is for radical Islam today.

There are many examples of rampant hypocrisy and corruption in Christianity throughout the ages, up to and including the present time. No need to stop with the Inquisition.

[SPasse]

Ninong,

“There are many examples of rampant hypocrisy and corruption in Christianity throughout the ages, up to and including the present time. No need to stop with the Inquisition.”

Agreed; But again, as Sam Harris points out, at least the additional exposure that it has had to “scientific enlightenment” has “tempered” it somewhat.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

I think the biggest change in the past was the invention of the printing press. Prior to that, the Church had a monopoly on the dissemination of knowledge. Not only that, but they could and actually did make revisions as necessary to make copies of original manuscripts more in line with church dogma. Modern forensic techniques have made it possible to uncover all sorts of changes that were made to not only religious texts but even secular texts, especially histories. A similar example of the potential of forensic science would be the discovery that the Shroud of Turin is a complete fake, yet the Catholic Church still venerates it as a relic, or at least they have refused to disown it publicly and it's still stored in a silver chest in a cathedral.

In our own time, I think the invention of the internet will have just as fundamental an impact on the dissemination of knowledge as the printing press did. Instantaneous communication among hundreds of millions of people. Instantaneous feedback. Anonymous tips. It's going to be more and more difficult for corrupt politicians or corrupt religious leaders to keep secrets.

Speaking of secrets, those Oral Roberts University professors who are suing Richard Roberts and the school filed an additional petition adding more juicy tidbits, such as the claim that " Mrs. Roberts spent the night in the university's guest house with an underage male on 9 separate occasions."

They previously claimed that she had a habit of running up $800/month cell phone bills because of texting back and forth with "underage males between 1 a.m. to 3 a.m." Now they're claiming that they have proof that she had an affair with at least one "underage male" and they claim to have 29 photos of Mrs. Roberts tooling around with her boytoy in her red Mercedes convertible after curfew.

What's an "underage male?" Are they talking about someone under the age of 18 or under the age of 16? The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16 but "it's 18 when the individuals involved are students and teachers or other school employees in public, private and public vocational schools." I looked it up.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Speaking of secrets, those Oral Roberts University professors who are suing Richard Roberts and the school filed an additional petition adding more juicy tidbits, such as the claim that " Mrs. Roberts spent the night in the university's guest house with an underage male on 9 separate occasions."

They previously claimed that she had a habit of running up $800/month cell phone bills because of texting back and forth with "underage males between 1 a.m. to 3 a.m." Now they're claiming that they have proof that she had an affair with at least one "underage male" and they claim to have 29 photos of Mrs. Roberts tooling around with her boytoy in her red Mercedes convertible after curfew.

What's an "underage male?" Are they talking about someone under the age of 18 or under the age of 16? The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16 but "it's 18 when the individuals involved are students and teachers or other school employees in public, private and public vocational schools." I looked it up.

Mrs. Roberts' boytoy is 16 according to the lawsuit! And he's "blond." And he loves riding around with Mrs. Roberts in her red Mercedes convertible.

Boy, you don't want to cross this Roberts broad or you could end up sleeping with the fishes! Besides having a strange compulsion for young men, she's one vicious woman. I don't remember any of Cher's boytoys being that young! They were usually at least 19 or 20 when she was in her 40's.

From page 21 of the lawsuit: Mrs. Roberts personally awarded thirteen non-academic, non need-based scholarhips exclusively to friends of her children. Two of the recipients scored 12's on the ACT, making them academically ineligible for admission to the university. When informed that the two students with 12's on the ACT could be admitted contingently and put into the Bridge program, Mrs. Roberts demanded that they be admitted without condition and that the questioning employee be fired.

Among the "furnishings" that were supplied to the Roberts home and billed to the school were several wide screen TVs (house has 13 cable connections!) and a $15,000 imperial stove. Also, a washer and dryer at $3,000 each. I've never heard of a $15,000 stove much less $3,000 washers or dryers??? The home was remodeled 11 times in 14 years.

Also, the cost of dead bolts for all bedroom doors was charged to the school. The deadbolts were demanded by older daughter because Mrs. Roberts' male 16-year-old "friend" was allowed to sleep over on invitation of Mrs. Roberts and this "alarmed older daughter."

They attached copies of cell phone bills totalling $7,000. A commercial soda machine is located in garage of Roberts' home and is filled by ORU employees and billed to the school.

University employees and ministry are routinely called to president's home to do daughter's homework (see security records, photos and statements). Daughter then takes answers, copies in own handwriting and submits to Victory Christian school as own work. Mrs. Roberts selects employees to perform homework assignments - see transcripts of taped voice mail messages.

And then there's the bit about using the university's plane to fly her daughter and her friends to Orlando and the Bahamas, where they stayed at the very expensive Atlantis resort. Everything was billed to the school, including receipts for liquor. Smoking and drinking of alcholic beverages are against the honor code of ORU but obviously none of that applies to the First Lady and her family. Total cost of that one trip: $29,411.00. I think they filed this under "focus on the family."

Oh, wow! On every speaking event Richard Roberts attends in Dallas where his wife accompanies him, two vehicles are rented and charged to university. Photos show Mrs. Roberts out on shopping trips and not attending preaching events. Note photos of Mrs. Roberts on four occasions -- "male blond is Mrs. Roberts' boyfriend on 4 occasions." So she takes her boytoy with her to Dallas with her husband and she and junior go shopping while he preaches???

She also took "male companion" with her on vacation to Branson and charged everything to the school.

And then they go on and on about how Tulsa has a 10 p.m. curfew for children without parents and Mrs. Roberts violated that by tooling around late at night with her 16-year-old boyfriend. They also have copies of "web blog entries" as late as 1 a.m. and even 3 a.m. and numerous phone calls after midnight. Also, it seems Mrs. Roberts called a university vice president at 3 a.m. to demand that he put up a message on the school marquee immediately: "Matt, I'm sorry. Love, Chloe!" Chloe is her daughter, so I guess her daughter was having her own boyfriend problems? Anyway, they attached photos of the marquee with the message and copies of phone records showing 3 a.m. phone call from Mrs. Roberts to vice president and call from vice president to employee who put up the message, plus statements from everybody involved.

Also, for a period of five years her three children (with Roberts) were home-schooled by a private teacher hired by Mrs. Roberts and paid by the university. The university's guest house was used as their school. That's the same place she took her boyfriends. It appears from the allegations in the lawsuit that Mrs. Roberts has had several underage boyfriends over the years and that her husband had to be aware of what was going on because her own children knew about it.

This woman is Leona Helmsley on steroids with an insatiable appetite for 16-year-old boys.

[zhenya]

This people should all be locked up in an institution. Sick bastards!

[Ninong]

The Tulsa, Oklahoma TV stations are all over this Oral Roberts University scandal.

They keep trying to reach Richard Roberts for a response but they can't seem to get in touch with him. Gee, I wonder why?

Besides repeating the allegations that Mrs. Roberts has been sleeping with a 16-year-old boy, they also added the following to the scandal:

"It also says three days after the original lawsuit was filed, ORU and Roberts terminated ORU's financial comptroller.

"Then it states witnesses have reported that voluminous materials and documents were shredded and destroyed.

"It also quotes a taped phone call where Roberts was heard saying, 'I have the deck stacked -- I am elected to three year terms and if a regent appears to give me trouble, I remove him. I stack the deck.'"

[Ninong]

Guess where Lindsay Roberts keeps all those clothes she charges to the school?

Remember the bit about her charging $39,500 worth of clothes at one store plus thousands and thousands of dollars worth of clothes at stores all over the country?

Well, I think I just found where she keeps all those clothes. On page 8 of the lawsuit they say that one of those 11 home remodels she and her husband billed to the university over the past 14 years included a 2,000 square foot walk-in closet for Mrs. Roberts' wardrobe. Thy kingdom come. My kingdom come.

Reminds me of Emelda Marcos. So now we have an Emelda Marcos/Leona Helmsley wannabe with an unnatural fondness for very young, young men. Emelda Marcos/Leona Helmsley/Cher wannabe.

[Ninong]

God said the lawsuit against ORU is unfounded!

Furthermore, God said that "it's not about wrongful termination, it's about intimidation, blackmail and extortion."

How do I know that? Because Richard Roberts said God spoke to him and told him what to say to the students at ORU. "Here's what He told me to say to you," Mr. Roberts told the students and professors gathered at the service.

I guess you could call that the God defense.

P.S. -- Can you get charged with perjury if you're just repeating what God told you to say?

P.P.S. -- This story is even more fun than the one about Pat Robertson claiming that he could leg press 2,000 lbs. We talked about that in this hilarious thread.

[Ninong]

New orders from God: Richard Roberts will take indefinite leave from Oral Roberts University.

Apparently God has changed His mind and ordered Richard Roberts to step down as president of Oral Roberts University because of all those "preposterous and untrue" allegations of sinful misconduct. No mention of whether or not Mrs. Roberts gets to take her boyfriend with her or not.

Here.

P.S. -- Too bad Jerry Falwell's not around to make a move to take over this operation.

[Ninong]

No wonder God changed His mind!

Scandal Vulnerability Assessment
Oral Roberts University, Oral Roberts Ministries
Original Draft Prepared by Stephanie Cantees

Investigation of potential areas of legal and/or financial issues in the university and ministry have yielded the following areas of potential vulnerability:

• As of 2003, Richard Roberts was compensated at the following levels -- $181,469.00 in annual salary from ORU; in excess of $100,000 as Vice President of City Plex; and an additional $41,530/year from the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association. Additional incomes from "Make Your Day Count" could not be verified but are likely.

• According to the Draft report, Richard Roberts stated in a taped phone call, "I have the deck stacked -- I am elected to three year terms and if a Regent appears to give me trouble, I remove him. I stack the deck...." (Draft report cites a numbered tape as documentation.)

• Richard Roberts receives complete housing benefits from the university which includes all associated costs: e.g., 13 internet/cable connections, wide-screen televisions, hot tubs, an Imperial Stove ($15,000), Washer/Dryers ($6,000), and all furnishings. The family selects furnishings for the home, the ministry then pays for the items and arranges for delivery.

• The Roberts home has been remodeled 11 times in the last 14 years. Each time, Mrs. Roberts demands more changes. During the most recent renovation, an $800 bathtub was installed for daughter Chloe.

• Dead bolt locks were installed on all bedroom doors at the insistence of the Roberts' oldest daughter. This was precipitated by Mrs. Roberts repeatedly moving into the home her 16 year old male "friend," which made her daughters uncomfortable.

• Photos exist of Mrs. Roberts and an underage male smoking at the President's residence. (Draft report references front and rear photos of Richard Roberts’ residence with Mrs. Roberts and the young male smoking.)

• Richard Roberts sought approval from stakeholders for moving the underage male into the family residence.

• Mrs. Roberts has personally spent the night in the ORU guest house with an underage male on nine separate occasions. (Draft report references photos of these events as well as logs from security.) It is reported that this underage individual was allowed to stay in the university guest house unsupervised on numerous occasions. All living expenses for this individual were born by ORU/ORM -- despite reported compliance prohibitions.

• Draft report references 29 distinct photos of Mrs. Roberts and an underage male alone in her sports car. Time stamps on the photos indicate that they were photographed after the citywide 10 p.m. curfew for minors not with their parents. In fact, all 29 photos were taken after midnight. The Draft report cites blog entries from current students confirming these meetings.

• Draft report cites statements by Victory Christian Students and past employees of VCS confirming Mrs. Roberts’ presence at the school in the presence of the underage male companion. Security tapes showed 81 visits to VCS by Mrs. Roberts and the underage male to the campus in 2004 alone.

• A longtime maintenance employee was summarily fired so that this same underage male companion could have his position. (Draft report cites a statement from current employee in confirmation of this assertion.)

• At ORUEF, Security removed three individuals for being intoxicated. Photos of the three show that one of the individuals was Mrs. Roberts’ "boy friend." She ordered that Security ignore the infraction. (Draft report indicates existence of photos of Mrs. Roberts ordering security to ignore the drunken youth.)

• Richard Roberts ordered university employees to post a personal message for his daughter on the Mabee Center electronic marquee which read, "Matt, I'm sorry. Love, Chloe." Mrs. Roberts called an unspecified vice president at 3:00 a.m. to demand the message be posted. (Draft report cites phone logs which show a total of seven demand calls being made to the same vice president that morning. Further, a dated and time-stamped copy of written orders from the same vice president to Mabee Center employees mandating that "Matt, I'm sorry, Love, Chloe" be immediately placed on the marquee.

• A total of 32 complaints were received from employees/public regarding the personal message placed on the Mabee Center marquee. The Roberts were warned of the legal implications of retaliation against employees expressing disapproval. (Draft report cites copies of phone records.)

• Tapes were produced of Chloe Roberts vandalizing and illegally removing athletic department equipment from university property. When confronted with the incriminating tape, Richard Roberts refused to address the issue. Roberts personally benefited from the property stolen, and the damage from the vandalization was billed to the university. (Draft report references the departmental video tape, two witnesses, and a statement from one of the other students involved.)

• University property -- specifically golf carts -- sustained serious damage at the hands of the Roberts’ children. Damages caused by the daughters was billed to the university.

• During Thanksgiving break, Mrs. Roberts repeatedly demanded searches of the Girls' Dorms for illicit male visitors. Male students felt "set up" as their names were released. (Draft report indicates existence of signed affidavits by male students of university persecution.)

• Dormitories were modified for Roberts’ daughters’ exclusive use, and all costs passed on to the university.

• Mrs. Roberts provided a key to City Plex Towers, and authorized underaged students removal of furnishings from the Tower to private student apartments off campus.

• Richard Roberts' 2,000 square foot home office was remodeled into a walk-in closet to accommodate the needs of Mrs. Roberts’ wardrobe. This wardrobe has been paid for by the television production cost center.

• Receipts for clothing are routinely handed to ORU/OREA staffers with orders to "cover the charges." (Original draft notes an attached document reflecting $51,206.00 in clothing receipts) Staffers are under standing orders to modify records/cover purchases to make personal purchases appear to be business related.

• Richard Roberts' current -- and previous -- personal vehicles were donated for University/Ministry use. No one outside the Roberts’ family ever used these vehicles. These vehicles are regularly washed, waxed, and cleaned by university employees. Further, all fuel is provided by the university at no charge to the president.

• Both Mrs. Roberts' white Lexus SUV and her red Mercedes convertible are provided by ministry donors -- including all insurance costs. The Mercedes was located online at a dealership in Atlanta. At the explicit direction of Richard Roberts, Ministry Security was flown to Atlanta to take possession of the vehicle and drive it back to Tulsa. (Original draft notes an attachment indicating the ministry department which paid for the plane ticket.)

• Automobiles driven by Mrs. Roberts and the families' daughters are routinely washed, waxed, cleaned and fueled by university personnel. Richard Roberts makes token payment for compliance purposes.

• The University/Ministry pays for all the families' home and cell phone without limits. (Original draft notes receipts in excess of $7,000 for phone expenses not including overseas cell expenses.)

• Cell phone bills for Mrs. Roberts and her daughters consistently run over $800/month -- with an average of over 1,000 text messages per month. (Original draft notes names of numbers of recipients of calls and texts.) Mrs. Roberts phone records indicate a large number of text messages sent between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m. Two underage males -- one of whom Mrs. Roberts was seen alone with after 1 a.m. on 29 separate occasions. This evidence was posted on a student weblog and referenced in the original draft of this report. It should be noted that Tulsa has a 10:00 p.m. curfew for underage persons not in the company of their parents.

• Records indicate that Mrs. Roberts replaced 2I cell phones in a two year period. Fifteen of her bills during that period exceeded $800/month. Four months had text messages in excess of 800 -- many of those texts from Mrs. Roberts were sent to underage males -- often between 1 a.m. and 3 a.m. -- who had been provided phones at university expense.

• Draft report documents that university employees were required to express mail "daily care packages" to underage male at retreat in Missouri. (Statements from former employees is cited as supporting documentation.) One of these "care packages" contained a new cell phone which was billed to Mrs. Roberts’ account.

• Richard Roberts asked stakeholders to permit Mrs. Roberts’ male friend to reside in their home when questions arose concerning his use of the guest house.

• The university provides and stocks a commercial soda machine in the garage of the Roberts’ home -- with all expenses being borne by the university.

• Meals are routinely prepared by a professional chef, compensated through the television cost center, and delivered to the house for "testing." Roberts makes token payment to satisfy dictates of compliance.

• University and Ministry employees are regularly summoned to the Roberts' home to do the daughters' homework. (Original draft notes security records, photos and statements to support this contention.) The daughters take the homework completed by the employees, copy the work, and submit it to Victory Christian School as their own work. (Original draft refers to a transcript of a phone call where Mrs. Roberts personally arranges for employees to assist the daughters with homework.)

• The Roberts' daughters were "home schooled." Their teacher was on the ORM payroll for over five years. Classes were held in ORU/ORM properly which had been classified as a "guest house" for IRS purposes. (According to the Draft report, the property had been fully converted to a school house as verified by photos of the property.) Although no guests ever stayed in the home, all expenses for operation and maintenance were borne by the university.

• The university owns an airplane which is currently used for mostly personal purposes.

• Richard Roberts maintains complete, total control of the university's airplane and who becomes a passenger on the plane. No other vice president or regent has any access to this university asset. In fact, individuals have asked to rent the plane -- fully reimbursing ORU for costs -- and have consistently been refused.

• There are numerous examples of commercial airline tickets being purchased despite space being available on the private jet going to the same destination. Mr. Roberts is highly selective about who he allows on the plane. Space is especially limited if family friends happen to be passengers -- personal passengers always take precedence over ORU/ORM employees.

• The university jet was used to take one daughter -- with several of her friends --on a Senior Trip to Orlando, Florida, and the Bahamas. The Bahamas portion of the trip was spent at the luxurious Atlantis hotel and resort. This trip was billed to the Ministry as an "Evangelistic function of the President." (Original draft notes lodging bills from Orlando which included charges for liquor and supplemented with a signed statement from one of the students on the trip.) Photos of the trip show the plane to be full of non-ministry students, and the parents of the other students were reportedly told that this was the daughter's "senior trip." The university was billed $29,411.00 for the costs of this "senior trip."

• During this same trip, the Ministry had need to fly Roberts' pianist for an event at a local church in Orlando. The only ministry employee on the trip had to fly commercial airlines because the university plane was full of guests on "senior trips."

• When the older daughter graduated, Mrs. Roberts refused to allow her to attend the Victory Christian School Senior Trip. By coincidence, the university plane just happened to be in the same city at the same time as the Victory seniors -- allowing the daughter to participate in the Senior Trip but with the costs being borne by the university. Apparently, Richard Roberts will book a speaking engagement in the city the daughters wish to visit and then bill the university for the cost of the trip. (Original draft indicates existence of student statements, copies of retained memorabilia, photos of the plane/trip, and receipts from resorts in the selected cities. Further, original draft notes a van rental receipt on one of these trip in the name of Oral Roberts Ministries.)

• The Roberts flew the ministry plane to Florida on December 26th, staying at the posh Breakers Hotel. (Draft reports cites existence of photos of non-university guests in rooms with meal/room charges paid by ORU/ORM credit cards.) All vehicle rentals were charged to ORU. This was cited as another example of a single speaking event in Florida being used to cover volitional travel for multiple persons. Once again, Mrs. Roberts didn't even attend the service which justified the travel expenditure.

• Roberts routinely visits his father in Newport Beach, California, and bills the costs of the trip to the university. (Original draft included names, dates, photos, costs of vacation villas, and receipts for rental vans/cars -- all billed to Oral Roberts University and Oral Roberts Ministries.) On one trip, which lasted fourteen days, Richard Roberts visited Oral only four times, yet billed the entire cost of the trip to the University/Ministry. .

• On several speaking engagements in Dallas, Texas, Mrs. Roberts accompanied her husband. In each instance, multiple vehicles were rented by the couple and charged to the University/Ministry. Records indicate that Mrs. Roberts did not attend any of the meetings conducted by Richard Roberts. (Original draft notes several photos showing Mrs. Roberts shopping with numerous guests.) Four photos clearly show Mrs. Roberts with a young, blond male which her own sister referred to as "her boy friend.").

• Mrs. Roberts routinely has ORM provide her with security personnel as protection while on personal vacations. On one occasion, Mrs. Roberts took one of her daughters and "a male companion" on an overnight trip to Branson. All charges for transportation, lodging and meals were paid by ORU/ORM. (Original draft references receipts for clothing dubbed "TV wardrobe, Branson, Missouri.")

• According to the Draft report, nine separate statements were collected which quote Mrs. Roberts as saying, "As long as I wear it once on TV, we can charge it off..." Draft notes inconsistencies in expense account between reported TV clothing, and actual TV usage. (Draft cites photos of closets by Chloe's friends of clothes with tags charged to TV account -- cell phone photos were circulating among her friends.)

• Mrs. Roberts spent over $39,000 at one clothing store alone -- Chico's -- in less than one year. Employees in the ministry assert that other accounts exist for stores in Texas and California which greatly add to the total.

• Mrs. Roberts ordered that her children be paid $200/song on the television show. One random student was found to pay the same rate, so as to justify the amount paid her children.

• The Roberts’ daughters are allowed to use Oral Roberts' home in the compound for a token payment.

• ORU/ORM maintains a stable of horses for the exclusive use of the Roberts’ children. All costs associated with this stable are borne by the university.

• ORU/ORM Security personnel are routinely used by the family to fetch groceries, hair bows and accessories, family meals, and even undergarments for the girls -- all while on the university payroll.

• Mrs. Roberts personally awarded thirteen non-academic, non-need-based scholarships exclusively to friends of her children. Two of the recipients scored 12's on the ACT, making them academically ineligible for admission to the university. When informed that the two students with 12's on the ACT could be admitted contingently and put into the Bridge program, Mrs. Roberts demanded that they be admitted without condition and that the questioning employee be fired. (Original draft references affidavit and copies of all transcripts of students awarded scholarships. Additionally, copies of awards for fulI room, board, and tuition scholarships, bearing Mrs. Roberts signature, were attached.)

• Mrs. Roberts was informed that these unilateral scholarship awards might constitute inurement, as she often received significant "thank you" gifts from the recipients or their parents. The unfortunate aspect of these scholarship awards to questionable students was the depletion of limited resources to fund the educations of more worthy candidates.

• After awarding the thirteen full academic scholarships to friends of the family, Mrs. Roberts established the "Make Your Day” scholarship. This financial aid was advertised as serving needy students. As before, Mrs. Roberts selected the recipients from a pool of mostly friends of the family.

[Ninong]

Mega-sized sex scandal hits Atlanta fundy Christian mega-church!

"Archbishop" Earl Paulk, who presides over the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit at Chapel Hill Harvester Church has quite a lot of explaining to do.

It seems he has been engaging in extramarital sex for decades with several of the church ladies by telling them that their salvation depended on them having sexual intercourse with their "archbishop." A few church ladies have come forth to complain that the "archbishop" took advantage of them.

One of the ladies didn't complain but she did engage in sexual intercourse with the "archbishop" while married to his brother!

Mark 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

Obviously the "archbishop" doesn't practice what they teach at the Bible college he built on the 100-acre site with the neo-Gothic cathedral.

It seems a judge ordered a paternity test on "Archbishop" Paulk's 34-yr-old "nephew," D. E. Paulk. The paternity test was ordered by the Cobb County district attorney's office and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation as part of an investigation into possible perjury by "Archbishop" Paulk when he testified in a lawsuit brought by one of the church ladies that he had never had sexual intercourse with anyone other than his wife and this one church lady who was suing him for manipulating her into a 14-year sexual relationship by telling her that her salvation depended on it. Obviously this woman knew that he was the father of his sister-in-law's son. She informed the authorities that the "archbishop" had also carried on a sexual relationship with his sister-in-law and fathered a son with her.

The paternity test proved that he did indeed father a child with his brother's wife and that child is now 34 years old! So that makes him the father and the uncle of this now-34-year-old man instead of just his uncle.

But it's all in the family and there are no hard feelings between the "archbishop" and his brother Don and his sister-in-law/mistress Clariece. They're just one big happy family. While Earl Paulk was having sex with his brother Don's wife, Clariece, Don was having sex with some of the church ladies. Both Earl and Don have been accused of engaging in sexual relationships with the church ladies.

Here.

P.S. -- So how come Pastor Ted Haggard didn't think of making himself an archbishop?

[Ninong]

Since I posted that yesterday, MSNBC has updated their article, so my link in the original post takes you to their updated version that is headlined as follows:


Megachurch leader in mega-sized sex scandal

80-year-old Georgia man slept with brother's wife, fathered her child

Do they actually get paid to write misleading headlines like that? It's incorrect to say that an "80-year-old Georgia man slept with brother's wife, fathered her child." He may be 80 now but he was only 45 when he fathered her child. Obviously they're deliberately misleading here to make it more sensational. It's sensational enough already without deliberately misleading headlines.


Senior pastor of Cathedral at Chapel Hill D.E. Paulk is pictured in his home Friday Nov. 9, in Marietta, Ga. DNA tests revealed that Bishop Earl Paulk, D.E.'s uncle and the church's founder, who has been plagued with sexual lawsuits, is actually D.E.'s biological father.

Excerpt:

At its peak in the early 1990s, it claimed about 10,000 members and 24 pastors and was a media powerhouse. By soliciting tithes of 10 percent from each member's income, the church was able to build a Bible college, two schools, a worldwide TV ministry and a $12 million sanctuary the size of a fortress.

Today, though, membership is down to about 1,500, the church has 18 pastors, most of them volunteers, and the Bible college and TV ministry have shuttered — a downturn blamed largely on complaints about the alleged sexual transgressions of the elder Paulks.

In 1992, a church member claimed she was pressured into a sexual relationship with Don Paulk. Other women also claimed they had been coerced into sex with Earl Paulk and other members of the church's administration.

P.S. -- Both of D.E.'s "fathers" have been named in sexual lawsuits. You might say adultery and fornication were rampant. Probably not a good idea if you're in the God business. It can have a negative impact on revenues.

P.P.S. -- Both "Archbishop" Earl Paulk and his brother Don have been accused of sexual molestation and rape by various women and girls over the past 24 years!!! So this is nothing new.

In 2001, Jessica Battle, accused Earl Paulk of molesting her between the ages of 7 and 11, and later raping her when she was 17. Paulk paid her $400,000 in an out-of-court settlement in 2003.

Tricia Weeks, a ghostwriter for Earl Paulk, alleged that he coerced her into a two-year affair beginning in 1992.

Mona Brewer has accused of Earl Paulk of forcing her into sexual relationship that started in September 1989. After her husband Bobby found out about it, he punched the "archbishop" in the nose. They filed a lawsuit against Paulk earlier this year.

Cindy Hall has claimed that Earl Paulk talked her into a lengthy affair starting in 1983, when she was 23 years old. According to Ms Hall, the "archbishop" talked her into having sex with his brother Don, too. All in the family, so to speak.

Donnie Earl (D.E.) Paulk, the cathedral's head pastor, announced to the congregation on October 14, 2007 that Uncle Earl is actually his biological father.

[SPasse]

Ninong,

As we all know, this kind of saga is as old as mankind.

Martin Luther (founder of the Lutheran Church) was (understandably) disgusted with priests that lived out sexual hypocrisy to the point of boasting that they only had sexual relations with females.

“Spiritual leaders” that abuse the positions of trust with their congregations is probably dates back to cavemen and witchdoctors. Maybe they were a little more up front about it. Many ancient “religions” even had temple prostitutes.

It is really discouraging for religious leaders that do “practice what they preach” as the level of cynicism in the general population is (somewhat understandably) very high.

It has gotten to the point where male pastors must not be alone with women (other than their wives) at any time.

What’s a person that wants to live a “moral” life to do? Certainly there does need to be a moral lifestyle alternative to the garbage that the “Paris Hilton” life style “promotes”

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

It may be as old as mankind but it's still sensational news when it's discovered on such a grand scale. In this case, the sensationalism centers around the fact that both the founder ("Archbishop" Earl Paulk) and his brother, as well as other "employees" of the church, have been accused of serial adultery with their flock for years. The news that the "archbishop" actually fathered a son with his brother's wife just adds to the sensationalism.

I don't know how many different fundamentalist Christian televangelists there are but I know that every couple of years one of the big ones gets into trouble for fleecing the flock and/or engaging in inappropriate sexual conduct. Think of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts University, etc. Ted Haggard made the news primarily because of the hypocrisy of his situation.

One can't help but think that these guys all approach this God business as a money-making scheme. Just look at the numbers involved with Jim Bakker before he was sent to prison and Jerry Falwell stole his congregation. I believe he was raking in more than $150 million a year. I have no idea how much money Jimmy Swaggart takes in but I can tell you that he has a huge campus in Baton Rouge with lots and lots of huge buildings. Swaggart was involved with several prostitutes over the years and everyone knew it.

In the recent scandal rocking the Roman Catholic Church, it's the fact that the hierarchy covered up the problem for decades that makes it so bad. Priests who were complained about in one parish were simply transferred to another parish or even another diocese. In some cases they were transferred out of state or even out of the country. And the bishops, archbishops and cardinals who wrote the letters of recommendation knew everything but deliberately withheld that information (aka lying) when they transferred their problems to other parishes. That coverup reached all the way to the Pope! John Paul II himself personally quashed an investigation into the founder of the Legion of Christ. It was only after JP II's death that Papa Ratzi finally closed that investigation by "inviting" the now 80-something priest to retire to a life of contemplation.

Hypocrisy in the Christian church has a long and storied history and it doesn't seem to have stopped at the Reformation.

P.S. -- Speaking of sexual highjinks, it looks like Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) won't have to testify after all at a hearing in the D.C. Madam case. The federal judge (a Clinton appointee) has ruled that testimony from the customers is irrelevant to the criminal proceeding at hand against the madam.

P.P.S. -- The priest who married Rudy Giuliani to his first wife (the one he didn't know was his second cousin) was suspended by the Catholic Church for inappropriate sexual conduct with young men but that didn't stop Giuliani from hiring him as an executive in Giuliani Partners. Msgr. Alan Placa has been a friend of Giuliani since grade school. He not only married Giuliani to his first wife, he also pulled strings with the archdiocese to get an annulment for Giuliani after 14 years of marriage. He was suspended by the archdiocese after they investigated complaints from several different men who alleged inappropriate sexual advances a long time ago. The Church found him guilty and suspended him from all public priestly functions but he can't be prosecuted due to the statute of limitations.

[Ninong]

Hey, guess what?

God finally told Richard Roberts to resign as president of ORU. Previously God had said he should step down temporarily but it looks like God decided to cut his losses and get rid of him permanently.

God told him on Thanksgiving that he should resign the next day, Roberts told students in the university's chapel.

"Every ounce of my flesh said 'no'" to the idea, Roberts said, but he prayed over the decision with his wife and his father, Oral Roberts, and decided to step down.

Roberts said he wanted to "strike out" against the people who were persecuting him, and considered countersuing, but "the Lord said, 'don't do that,'" he said.

P.S. -- God keeps changing His mind. Previously God told him to deny the allegations. I guess God didn't realize at that time that the allegations were true.

Richard Roberts announced to the students at ORU that he intends to return to the "evangelical healing" business.

[Ninong]

So, which GOP candidate is getting the official Oral Roberts University endorsement?

Hey, remember when they were all lining up to speak at ORU? Whatever happened? Did one of them get the official endorsement yet? You don't think they're actually avoiding Oral Roberts and his son do you? Anybody speaking at Bob Jones lately? Remember how they all scrambled to get invited there?

BTW, Jerry Falwell, Jr. has officially endorsed Rev. Huckster, I mean Pastor Mike Huckabee for president.