[weez1959]

While I'm still completely against the Vick thing 200% Tim makes lots of good points, only some animals are covered in these cruelty laws...
Some of us feed live fish to our lionfish everyday, it's common practice, same goes for feeding a reptile live mice/rats/rabbits. What makes them less special and endearing than say a kitten or a puppy? This whole thing really opens your eyes as to what is really going on. We, the human race really are quite barbaric right down to swatting a fly or stepping on a spider.
Is it OK to say "well that's how it is"?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by weez1959

Is it OK to say "well that's how it is"?

Sure, why not? We're the top predator so we get to make the rules.

Most of the countries around the world don't want to see commercial whaling but Japan and Norway disagree. Japan says they're conducting "scientific research" but that's a crock. Then they tell the rest of the world to butt out of their "cultural heritage." They like to eat whale burgers.

So we think it's a shame to kill marine mammals but some people think they taste delicious.

Millions of sharks are slaughtered every year just for their fins. The fins are cut off and the sharks are dumped back into the ocean alive. That's because the Chinese like shark's fin soup. They also like to eat bear's paws and birds' nests, too.

We don't even eat horses over here but the French do. They also eat snails, something most Americans won't even try. I know I won't.

And we definitely don't eat cats and dogs but they are eaten in some Asian countries.

So you can either be a complete vegetarian and not eat any animals or animal products (dairy and eggs) or you can pick and choose where to draw the line. I don't seem to have a problem eating fish or shrimp or beef or chicken but I wouldn't even think of eating a cat or a dog or a whale.

[TGreene]

FWIW: I'll try just about anything, because pretty much everything is a staple food somewhere...

Being a former wilderness guide, the debate on eating human flesh under specific circumstances has come up many many times, and to me, we're just meat, so I always make sure to carry a few ketchup packets in my pack.

[Ninong]

Taylor's guilty plea is terrible news for Vick

Here's why.

[Ninong]

Michael Vick to be honored as "an outstanding human being."

The Southern Christian Leadership Conference has announced that they will be honoring Michael Vick at their convention.

"We will recognize Vick for being an outstanding human being," said SCLC President Charles Steele. "We will work with anyone who opens their heart and arms to us." (Not to mention their wallets.)

I would think that if the SCLC is looking for "an outstanding human being" to honor, perhaps someone like Tiger Woods would be less controversial.

On the other hand, if they're looking for someone desperately in need of their prayers, then Mike Vick is a good choice. In addition to the four cooperating witnesses, there is now one cooperating co-defendant, Tony Taylor, who has already pled guilty and agreed to testify against Vick, Peace and Phillips. Tony Taylor, you might remember, has already served two years in prison in New York for drug trafficking, so I'm sure he's not all that excited about going back.

It is unfortunate that the leadership of the SCLC, in their extremely finite wisdom, have chosen to mention Michael Vick's name at the same conference where Sen. Barack Obama is a featured speaker. I'm sure the Obama campaign really appreciates that.

P.S. -- What about Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Chris Henry? Don't they deserve some sort of recognition from the SCLC? Maybe the SCLC should just pray for the entire NFL?

[Ninong]

Michael Vick's remaining co-defendants to plead GUILTY!

Tony Taylor was the first to cut a deal and now both Peace and Phillips have decided to cop a plea. All three will be cooperating with the prosecution. So now, in addition to the four cooperating witnesses, there will be three co-defendants testifying against Vick should he choose to actually take this thing to trial.

My guess is that he will cut a deal eventually.

Here.

P.S. -- Time to call up Martha Stewart for her homemade shank recipe.

[Ninong]

Feds threatening to file additional charges against Vick unless he agrees to plead GUILTY by this Friday!

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The two remaining co-defendants in Michael Vick's federal dogfighting case on Monday scheduled hearings to enter plea agreements.

Will Vick be next to cut a deal?

Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, is set to appear in federal court in Richmond on Thursday and Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, on Friday.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch reported early Tuesday that Vick's lawyers have been given a Friday deadline to plead guilty or the U.S. attorney's office will file additonal charges in a superseding indictment.

[zhenya]

Well, it appears that the saga of Michael Vick, and his previous plea of not guilty had come to an end. His lawyer said that Vick will plead guilty next Monday...
Lawyer: Vick to plead guilty to dogfighting charges - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Aside from jail time I wonder what sort of future this guy may have after it in the NFL? I mean he's not the only player ever to go to jail and some had returned to restart their careers, although given the situaitions in this case I wonder if it is possible at all.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by zhenya

Aside from jail time I wonder what sort of future this guy may have after it in the NFL?

Gene,

According to that article, he has agreed to plead guilty to the same two charges the other three co-defendants have already pled guilty to: conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

The deal that the prosecutors offered him several days ago, according to what has been written, is that if he pled guilty to those two charges, they would recommend that the judge sentence him to a year in prison. I have no idea if that's still the agreement or not but that's supposedly what it was when it was first proposed.

Here's the deal. The judge gets to determine the sentence. He can even reject the plea agreement entirely if he feels like it. Federal guidelines call for up to five years plus up to a $250,000 fine. This judge has a reputation for handing out tough sentences. I would be surprised if he gets off with less than 18 months but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what sort of mood the judge is in when he passes sentence. Remember the recent cases of GOP politicians who agreed with federal prosecutors to x-number of months and then the judge increased it. Whatever the sentence, he will be required to serve 85% of it under federal guidelines.

I think what has Michael Vick worried is the possibility of state charges being filed. He doesn't want to be charged with illegal gambling because that would allow the NFL to suspend him for life if they felt like it. The pressure the feds were putting on him was that they threatened to come back with a superseding indictment to include RICO (racketeering) charges if he didn't accept their offer. A RICO charge carries 10-20 years!

I suspect that his career with the Falcons is kaput. I would be surprised if Arthur Blank does not cancel his contract. As far as the NFL is concerned, I expect that they will suspend him for a period longer than whatever his jail time turns out to be. In other words, if he gets 18 months in prison, I would expect the NFL to suspend him for two years. We'll just have to wait and see.

Assuming he gets off with no more than 12 or 18 months in prison and no more than a two year NFL suspension, there is still the problem of finding a team to pick him up after the suspension. There's always Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders but even Al Davis may balk at this guy because of the backlash from dog owners.

As far as his Nike contract, he can kiss that buh-bye.

P.S. -- If I had to take a wild guess, I would guess that Vick will get a longer jail sentence than the other three guys because they copped a plea first and he will also likely get the maximum fine but that's chump change to him. He will be accused ot being the founder and financial backer of the illegal enterprise.

[Ninong]

I just read an article on Fox Sports that claims that the NFL rejected Vick's request last week that any suspension run concurrently with his possible jail time. In other words, the NFL is telling him that their suspension won't even start until he is released from prison. Wow!

Time to call up Martha Stewart for her homemade shank recipe. Time to order some soap-on-a-rope, too!

[Ninong]

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has barred Vick from the Falcons' training camp but has withheld further action while the league conducts its own investigation.

"We totally condemn the conduct outlined in the charges, which is inconsistent with what Michael Vick previously told both our office and the Falcons," the league said in a statement. The NFL added that it has asked the Falcons "to continue to refrain from taking action pending a decision by the commissioner."

The Falcons said they were "certainly troubled" by news of the plea but would withhold further comment in compliance with Goodell's request.

[Ninong]

United States v. Michael Vick

Plea Hearing, 10:30 a.m., Aug. 27, 2007

[zhenya]

I don't expect either commissioner of the NFL or the Falcons owner be very forthcoming with any good news for Michael Vick given the fact that he lied to both of them and completely stonewalled the entire matter.

If some of the team mates are willing to stick by him as good friens always do, those two guys have much bigger concerns that face them. The league, and the Falcons, both got a black eye in their PR and I don't know how Falcons will perform this season with Harrington as a leader. We'll see I guess...

Personally, as someone who loves dogs very much and a football fan, Mr.Vick does not exist for me anymore as a "sportsman".

[Ninong]

Maybe Vick can do the Dirty Bird in jail for his new roommates? They can call it the Dirty Jail Bird.

[Ninong]

According to the latest ESPN reports, Michael Vick will plead GUILTY to one charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting. (P.S. -- The link now takes you to an updated version of this story that was just published a few minutes AFTER I wrote this post.)

Apparently his legal team is trying very hard to avoid having him admit to illegal gambling on dogfights, which could result in a lifetime NFL ban. Even before his three co-defendants all flipped like cheap hamburgers, the four cooperating witnesses all identified Vick as the money man when it came to paying off losing bets. One of them described in detail how Vick retrieved $23,000 from his SUV to settle up after losing a fight.

According to ESPN, Vick will admit to being present when dogs were killed but will maintain that he personally did not do the killing. His co-defendants have all stated that Vick authorized the killings and at least one of them has claimed that Vick personally participated in the killing of those last eight dogs, whose remains were uncovered on the grounds of Vick's house outside Newport News. Those eight dogs were all hanged but three of them survived the hanging and, according to Vick's co-defendant, those three were finished off by holding them upside down so that their heads were submerged in a 5-gal bucket of water until they drowned. He claimed that Vick assisted in that process. These eight dogs were apparently ones that were deemed not suitable for fighting. On previous occasions, losing dogs and dogs deemed not worth feeding were dispatched by electrocution, hanging and, in at least one instance, being body slammed against the ground.

According to ESPN, Vick's father is now saying that Vick has been engaged in dogfighting for the past six years, starting out in the garage of the family's home. The father states that he had to take care of the wounded dogs and nurse them back to health. He's also angry that his son refused to give him $700,000 for living expenses. He said Mike pays the rent for his apartment and gives him a couple hundred bucks every week or two but that's it. Vick hasn't spoken to his father for the past 2-1/2 months and, from the looks of things, he may not be speaking to him again any time soon.

There is still the possibility that the state of Virginia could bring charges against Vick.

[Ninong]

Michael Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and helping kill pit bulls. He denied ever betting on the fights, only bankrolling them.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said.

The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips. (Also known as "T," "P-Funk," and "Q." Vick's nickname was "Ookie," except that when he was seeking treatment for genital herpes he used the name "Ron Mexico.")

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick."

According to court documents, Vick was aware that his co-defendants killed a number of dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions.

Last April, Vick and two co-defendants tested the fighting skills of dogs and the three agreed to kill six to eight dogs that didn't measure up. All were killed by methods including hanging and drowning.

P.S. -- He's trying to say that he financed the enterprise and he put up all of the money for the bets but he didn't actually make the bets, therefore he didn't gamble. That's an interesting take on things. I wonder if Roger Goodell will consider that gambling?

[Ninong]

Vick's attorneys are trying to confuse the media

Just prior to filing Michael Vick's plea statement with the court, one of his attorneys told the media that he would deny gambling on dogfights and deny killing any dogs. However, if you read his exact statement, he actually does admit killing dogs and he admits gambling on dogfights, just not participating in the winnings. In other words, he put up the money for the bets but then allowed his friends ("T," "Q" and "P-Funk") to claim the winnings, if any, for themselves.

"Vick agrees that 'Bad Newz Kennels' business enterprise involved gambling activities in violation of the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia ... Most of the 'Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick ... Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by 'Bad Newz Kennels.'"

"Peace, Phillips, and Vick agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick."

Peace and Phillips claimed in their plea statements that Vick participated in the killing of the dogs and that appears to be what Vick is admitting to in his statement. I don't understand how his attorney can claim that he is not admitting that he personally killed any dogs.

As far as the gambling thing is concerned, statements by his co-defendants and statements by the government's cooperating witnesses claim that Michael Vick personally handed over the cash on several occasions to pay off the winner. The distinction that he did not participate in side bets seems irrelevant to me but what do I know.

[Ninong]

Well, that didn't take long:

NFL suspends Vick indefinitely without pay!

Roger Goodell said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible" and regardless of whether he personally placed bets, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

[Ninong]

Rapper DMX has his home raided and 12 pitbulls removed by law enforcement officers.

Somebody named DMX has just had 12 pitbulls removed from his backyard in the Phoenix, Arizona area. Authorities said the dogs were tied up and were not being fed or given water. (In the Arizona desert in August!!!!!!)

They also discovered the recently buried remains of several other dogs.

[Ninong]

This DMX guy has been busted for guns and dogs before:

This DMX guy, who has "Pitbull" tattooed across his back, has had problems with the law involving guns and mistreating dogs before. He faced remarkably similar allegations in 1999, when police raided his home in Teaneck, New Jersey, and discovered enough guns to arm a militia and 13 caged pit bulls. He copped a plea in 2002 to avoid jail time and was ordered to make a series of PSAs urging children to be wary of guns and kind to animals.