Non-native species and the immune system

[wgscott]

No one has ever been killed?

http://www.chirowatch.com/cw-cervical.html



Even I didn't know the situation was quite this bad!

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by Ninong


Why do you keep missing so much in the threads you initiate?

Sorry, but I don't think I started this thread. I simply replied to it and was immediately greeted with sarcastic insults. If he would have just given the link to begin with NONE of this would have happened. But you will not ever bring that up for what reason I am not sure. I guess I am not allowed to reply to someones thread like everyone else here and expect to be treated politely...........yea that's asking too much


I believe you have three different board names on four different boards.

Let's be clear that the crabby post was my first EVER on a forum of any kind while at my parents home for christmas which is why I had to change names when I got back to school. Salty Dog was not available on RC or TRT so I had to pick others. Please don't try to make it seem like I use different names on purpose to hide who I am




(I see from this current thread that you didn't take a vow of poverty while in Nepal. Whiplash must be very profitable. )

I don't make the rules.........I just follow them


Why do you say stuff like that?

I have no clue who he is nor do I care what he has a PHd in and no I don't have the GARF thread memorized but it seems you do for some reason?? I do however want to know what he believes gives him the authority to question how ANY health care professional treats his or her patients unless he has a license of his own and sits face to face with people each and every day that are at various stages of declining health looking to him for help. I am Nationally and Board certified in my profession, I am liscensed to practice in 3 states, I am given the responsabilty of consulting with patients, performing a complete physical exam, taking any required x-rays, ordering necessary labs,MRI's,and neurological diagnostics. Then it is my job to combine all that information into a working diagnosis and treatment plan that matches said diagnosis..........Last time I checked, they don't hand that kind of responsability out to quacks.........or PHD's for that matter. Yet once again he will choose to trivialize all that info with some sarcastic statement and a smiley. I find it interesting that you defend all his actions and do not question his unprovoked criticism when it is clear that he started the whole mess........hmmmmm??




You know something? When people read this thread, they will remember only two things:

• WGScott got off some very funny, slightly sarcastic comments and...
  
  I didn't find them funny or slightly anything and if they were directed at you I'm sure you would feel different.
  
• You lost your cool and resorted to foul-mouthed language and name calling.
  
  But the names he calls me are OK..........hmmmmm??

You shouldn't let yourself be so easily rattled.

I find it hilarious that you think I am rattled.........some blow-hard PHD from California that I will never know or care to know being sarcastic in a fishroom forum...........yea that really hurts deep

Ninong

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by ccull
oooh oooh oooh i can answer "hmmmm I wonder why my malpractice insurance is only a fraction of MD's", it's for the same reason mine is, quackopracter's don't practice real medicine (i'm a network engineer if you're wondering)

Was this supposed to be funny? Malpractice premiums are a direct gauge to the likelihood of your being sued for negligence. Just like car insurance........the higher risk you are the higher premiums you pay. Look up some where what the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA last year was and you will see why MD's pay so much.

If real medicine is killing 250,000 people per year then your right.....that's not how I practice.

Don't bother elaborating on the symptoms question.........I'll save you the embarrassment.

[Salty Dog]

Once again when presented with the detailed facts you come back with a sarcastic phrase and useless info in an attempt to avoid the truth

You laugh off my trip overseas as some kind of joke. I explain it in detail and you move on to some other subject.

You call me a quack and I clearly list my credentials so you change the subject trying to trivialize my treatment methods.

I inform you that I do not use high-velocity manipulation of the cervical spine yet you continue to post links to methods that have nothing to do with the type of care I provide.

You originally make fun of my schooling because I didn't have EBV stats on the tip of my tongue that turn out to be an obscure reference to rare cases found outside the USA. However when that is pointed out you just change the subject to a different insult.

I present you with an article from JAMA naming Dr's as the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA yet you don't respond to that at all. Except with some odd-ball case studies about strokes(while tragic have nothing to do with my treatment methods)to make it sound common.

Again I ask you what would you say about chiropractors if THEY killed 250,000 people per year?? Why don't you give your "perfect drug" story and a sarcastic smiley to the quarter million families who's Dr killed them last year and see if they feel better??

When you have treated A patient........just 1 then your words will have meaning and even then only in your field and not one you THINK you know so much about.........You don't see me making fun of PHD's who are published do you?? Stick to what you know.

Have some respect. Your an educated guy, why don't you look up the curriculum I went through and the requirements I met to become a DC. I couldn't care less whether you believe in chiropractic or not but you should at least respect the education level and hard work necessary to become one. While I don't care at all about your PHD I still recognize the effort to obtain it...........and you should do the same.

[Salty Dog]

The JAMA article also states some stats about the "lucky" ones that didn't get killed last year and were just made worse.

116 million extra physician visits
77 million extra prescriptions
17 million emergency department visits
8 million hospitalizations
3 million long-term admissions
$77 billion in extra costs


It's a shame that $77 billion money tree is being fertilized by 250,000 bodies of innocent people in search of that "perfect drug"

I would rather profit from whiplash then death any day

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Ninong

Why do you keep missing so much in the threads you initiate?

Salty Dog, this is a reference to the fact that you keep pretending to not know who wgscott is in spite of the fact that he gave you his full name, occupation, and business address in a thread that you initiated in January 2000 on reefs.org. How could you possibly forget those threads, you were the center of attention, you made history, no one had ever succeeded in getting a thread closed before...


(P.S.-Here's a clue: wg has three different board names on three different boards. I believe you have three different board names on four different boards.)

Salty Dog, this was a feeble attempt by me to jog your memory by pointing out the fact that in the thread that I am referring to, that you initiated on reefs.org, in which wgscott answered your question about his identity, his board name is flounder. Don't you remember now? You gave the same speech about cowards hiding behind phony board names, etc. (BTW, you did a marvelous job of stirring up several "cowards" in those threads. )

The reason for my little "clue" was to help jog your memory, not to imply that you were hiding behind various phony board names. Your board names are Salty Dog, Salt Creep, and Crabby, his board names are wgscott, Anemone of the State, and flounder, and my board name is Ninong.

You have been involved in dozens of exchanges with wgscott over the past 18 months, including three or four previous lively exchanges on this board in this very same General Discussions forum. Surely you remember those threads? Someone reading your comments in the current thread might get the impression that you were being set upon by a total stranger when, in fact, you have had many previous encounters.

Ninong

[wgscott]

Perhaps the main reason he was a bit slow to jump to this conclusion (unlike in other situations where this appears to be less of an inhibition) is that I started out defending him until he made such an arse of himself that it became an embarassing.

Yes, MDs kill lots of patients, both through treatments like chemotherapy where you are trying to balance two dangerous alternatives (do nothing vs. poison the cancer faster than the rest of the person) and through mistakes or even incompetence. My baby daughter was almost killed from an infection that originated in the hospital, so I am well aware of the problem, and I have also read the article. (In this case however it was reluctance to perscribe antibiotics, but yes I do agree that there are idiots that hand antibiotics out like candy.)

However, the essenntial point is that medicine, at least as it is supposed to be practiced, is founded upon empirical scientific results, controlled clinical trials, etc. Medical schools are parts of major universities. Chiropractic is founded upon unscientific principles, their schools are shunned by major universities, and they pretend to treat diseases that they have no business claiming they can help with. I used to think that they were probably ok for back problems. However after reading a few of those links that I cited, I have to say that I have lost all faith that it is anything other than dangerous quackery and hucksterism, and the profession probably should be outlawed.

[wgscott]

Originally posted by Salty Dog
If he would have justgiven the [CDC Epstein Barr virus] link to begin with NONE of this would have happened. But you will not ever bring that up for what reason I am not sure.

Ok, I will. One of several points about herpes viruses (of which Epstein Barr virus was one) is that many people become infected without ever knowing it. I cited what is essentially common knowledge that almost everyone (I said 97%, CDC says 95%) gets infected with EBV, which should have been about as controversial as saying everyone gets the flu. Your response is that I am making up statistics. I reached for the closest book on virology, pulled it off the shelf, and quoted you 80% out of that book. You still chose to carry on about how I was clearly inventing statistics, so I then did a www.yahoo.com search on Epstein Barr Virus. The very first link to pop up was the CDC link. I read that and quoted the relevant contents to you.

If you are too lazy to push a button on your internet browser and do such a search yourself, but are not too lazy to spend 20 minutes typing about what a fraud I am to make up such statistics, I can only conclude that your motives have to do with things other than finding out what the truth might be.

I also think it is quite frightening that someone who claims to be a health-care professional and to be able to second-guess MDs that treat infectious diseases (a) knows so little about them in practice, (b) thinks the neighborhood cats can contract fish diseases, and (c) doesn't even bother to check basic facts from an obvious source like the Centers for Disease control before going on a huge, slanderous tirade. Now if you fixed cars for a living, I could be more forgiving, because there is no particular reason an auto mechanic should know any more about infectious diseases than I know about car repair. However, since you are a member of a profession that claims to provide a legitimate alternative to allopathic medicine, I find this, to say the least, rather worrying.

Claiming that I brought on the attack myself simply because I did not take the time to provide you with an internet link to something that is in every textbook on virology and is essentially common medical knowledge is at the very least disingenuous, and does little to advance either your credibility or that of your profession.

[ranaman]

Now for the comic relief:
Dr. Hugo Wagner: But you're sacrificing a human life!
Dr. Alfred Brandon: Do you cry over a guinea pig? This boy is a free police case. We're probably saving him from the gas chamber.
Dr. Hugo Wagner: But the boy is so young, the transforation horrible---
Dr. Alfred Brandon: AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A SCIENTIST! That's why you've never been more than an assistant!
"I WAS A TEENAGE WEREWOLF" (1957)
We now return to BESIDES THE POINT already in progress. http://www.reefland.com/cgi-bin/foru...milies/lol.gif

[FISHme]

This thread is all my fault.
Why not go on to something more productive guys ?

FISHme aka the IDIOT !!!!!

[Rin]

[lurker mode off]

Nah, FISHme, this thread is the fault of a couple of guys whose egos are so incredibly large that they can't possibly fit them on three different boards.

Still...this is fun...I enjoy fireworks.

Keep up the freak-show, guys.

[lurker mode on]

[ccull]

"When you have treated A patient........just 1" WG, just do it HIS way, PRETEND to treat patients!

[ccull]

1 legit question: are quackopracters allowed to prescribe drugs like real doctors?

[wgscott]

No. Thank the Gods. But if they were, you can bet all of this anti-drug stuff would disappear from their repetoir of anti-allopathic rhetoric as quickly as you can spell "profit margin."

[ccull]

isn't that just transparent then? "we can't prescribe medicine" thus "medicine is a Bad Thing(tm)" jesus, that just makes their position completely obvious. it kinda explains their lower malpractice fees as well - i can't prescribe drugs either and thus my malpractice insurance is dirt cheap too. sheesh - helllllllo! they keep the big boy toys out of their hands thus they don't pay the big boy fees.....frikking moronic quacks (there is actually a quackopracter who wants to treat my chronic kidney stones (cause: high urine calcium) with quackopractory) - sheesh - what a bunch of crooks

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by Salty Dog



What study did you get this info from? What cancers were attributed to the Epstein-Barr virus??

This was my original question in the thread. No sarcasm. No cheap shots. No suggestions of you making things up. Nothing but 2 simple questions that you could have answered with "I don't know exactly try a search on EBV" or with a link to your info cited. This thread would NEVER have happened if that's how you had answered. Of course you chose to reply with sarcastic insults about my schooling and treatment methods in the next post. So please stop acting like this thread is a result of me.


NINONG.........I did not know he is FLOUNDER or Anemone.......although that explains a lot. For whatever reason you seem to know my posting history better then I do. You must have better ways to spend your time ......Don't you have a sweet empty starphire glass box somewhere?? I don't want to spoil anyones mental pic of me but I rarely even post anymore and definately don't cruise like I did in the past Just get sick of reading the same questions everyday over and over...........no offense;)


ccull..........Think about this for a second to soak it in. I have more respect for Anemone of the wgFlounder then you At least he has some clue of what he's talking about. You on the other hand are some who sees he can get attention by jumping on the bash wagon only you have no idea what to say. You actually seem to be getting dumber by the post

By far the most joy I will take from this thread is knowing that you suffer from chronic kidney stones.........that is PRICELESS
My impression of ccull in the bathroom
There is justice in the world after all

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by wgscott
No. Thank the Gods. But if they were, you can bet all of this anti-drug stuff would disappear from their repetoir of anti-allopathic rhetoric as quickly as you can spell "profit margin."

Yes.......Thank God. If we did the death toll would probably be up near 500,000/year. Plus I don't need drugs to spell "profit margin"

When will you learn about something BEFORE you lump it into one of "your" groups. Hardcore bashing of any and all medicine is NOT chiropractic. We simply state that there is a time and place for everything and rushing into Rx meds and surgeries is not ALWAYS the best answer. A conservative treatment should be applied first closely monitoring the condition(depending what it is) and more aggressive and invasive treatments taken in steps IF and when needed. Take a good look at the success rates for low back surgery......They are pathetic at best. NOW patients with obvious disk herniations are being encouraged to pursue conservative routes before just jumping on the table.........does it ALWAYS work? No of course not but very importantly sometimes it does and if you can keep someone from having surgery why is that a bad thing?? Some cases sre too far gone and NEED to be repaired.......but not all. In the last 2 months I have helped a 35yr old construction worker with a previous unsuccessful low back discectomy and fusion eliminate the constant pain and numbness he had clear down to his toes and return to a full work week(still limited activity for now) and resume earning money for his family. I have also helped a 27yr old girl that fell through a loading dock at work who came to me after a year of misery and a BAG of pills that she carried everywhere and a hard plastic knee high boot to help her walk.........A YEAR after her fall. Her meds were heavy duty nasty stuff like Vicadin, Percacet, MS and Oxy Contin, Skelaxin.....etc They were all given on and off as she became tolerant of one they just switched to another. She came to me after all her MD's dismissed her as addicted to pain meds.........well duh?? After 18 treatments over 2 months she rated herself as a 100% improved at her re-exam(still a ways to go) and has reduced her pain meds by 3/4. She now wears only a soft ankle sleeve to assist her walking.......It gets funnier. Her MD's have now suggested she seek Psychiatric help because the pain must have all been in her mind as a result of the traumatic accident. Am I the bad guy?? She came to me because she got scared by the last suggestion of implanting a spinal stimulator to block her pain. Why not try conservative first?? Then meds if needed.......and last resort is irreversable surgery. It's just common sense. You make us sound like we will watch you die of a heart attack because we would rather treat you with a thoracic adjustment...........Sorry that's not the way it is.......my office is not an ER. We work in preventative care and are always aware of when things are not progressing and need further studies or a more urgent treatment. If you can find a way to make me out as the bad guy in these 2 cases then your issues are just with me and not my profession.

[schrocat]

It's not often that one sees a health care provider take pleasure, and mock, the pain and suffering of another human being.
Under any circumstance.

I respectfully ask all of you to go
here if anyone feels this conversation must continue.
It's an odd forum hcp28 dug up...

Regards,

[Bughead]

OK, here's an old, old joke, just to lighten things up .

A man woke up one morning and his male member was all green and smelly with a nasty yellow oozing discharge. He went to the doctor and the doctor said," Sorry, but I'll have to amputate that thing".

The man thought Oh, no, I need a second opinion. So he went to a second doctor and the doctor told him the same thing, amputation was the only choice.

Then a friend told him about a new doctor from China who'd just set up his practice. So the man decided to give Chinese medicine a try.

The man showed the Chinese doctor his nasty, gross body part and told him the other two doctors said amputation was needed. The Chinese doctor took one look at it and said," Oh, no--these American doctors, all they think, CHOP-CHOP. But no need. Wait two weeks, rot off."

[Reinhold]

This thread has been hilarious! A few random thoughts:

Plus I don't need drugs to spell "profit margin." Salty Dog

This is true. He can make plenty of cash selling worthless vitamins, herbs and salts.

While there was some initial data suggesting that Chlamydia was related to coronary artery disease, due to the questionable association of fewer myocardial infarctions among people who were taking erythromycin, subsequent studies have shown no evidence of a Chlamydia/MI link.

I have several friends who are chiropractors and do a great job of "physical therapy" on people. However, I will always remember the 75 year-old man who came into my ED with stomach pain. He had been to the chiropractor, who had him drinking two bottles of hydrogen peroxide per day, after which he would stand on his head while his wife grabbed his legs and tried to "shake him up." This was the treatment advised by the quack. Unfortunately, I found a large gastric cancer, and he soon died. (Probably my fault, huh?)

I also recall the woman who told me that her problem with weakness was caused by a problem with a "compressed audio-visual nerve," according to the trusty chiropractor. Her weakness turned out to be caused by a hemoglobin of 6.0, a result of a fungating colon cancer.

Salty Dog, how many of your 160,000 "clams" have been earned by giving people advice like this?