[Ninong]

Rev. Mike Huckabee has personally apologized to Bishop Mitt Romney for mentioning the bit about Mormons believing that Jesus and Satan were brothers.

No one seems to have addressed the question, just the idea that it was an attack by the Huckster against the Mittster's religion but what if it's true? Would it still be considered an attack?

I wonder what the official website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has to say about this question? Maybe I'll check it out to see if it's covered.

Yep, it's covered in detail:

On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel “who was in authority in the presence of God,” a “son of the morning.” (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25–27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.) -- Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan, Utah.

Here. It's the second question on that page.

That's an interesting bit of information. Of course, Bishop Romney is free to believe whatever he wants to believe but I wonder why he's so defensive about his religion? He should just tell people to look it up for themselves if they're that interested. I think maybe Bishop Romney is worried that some people may not vote for him just because his religion is a little different from theirs. I remember the dearly departed Rev. Jerry Falwell and other fundamentalist Christian leaders saying that only good Christians should be appointed to the federal bench. That was when Bush was interviewing to fill a couple of Supreme Court vacancies. And Rev. Falwell once said that all public schools in America should be taken over by Christian churches. Maybe Mitt's worried that they won't include him as a Christian just because his religion has a lot of extras that the other Christian religions are lacking.

[Ninong]

The official LDS website has the Book of Mormon and their other holy scriptures online.

According to the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:9

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the wh0re of all the earth.

This is a variation of Bush's "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists." According to the Book of Mormon, there are only two churches: the LDS church (the Lamb of God) and the Catholic Church, which was founded by Jesus' little brother Satan.

[Ninong]

22 And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

Book of Moses, 7:22

Brigham Young:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."


I believe they started allowing black people in their church starting in 1978 after the president of the Mormon church announced that he had just had a conversation with God and that God told him he had changed his mind and it would now be acceptable to allow black people into the church. I imagine that maybe there are some black Mormons. After all, there are black Republicans, so I guess there could even be black Mormons.

[Ninong]

Why did God make the Lamanites (American Indians) turn dark skinned and become an idle people full of mischief?

They used to all be white and delightsome but some of them turned their hearts away from God, so he caused a skin of blackness to come upon them.

21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.

24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.


From the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 5:21-24

OK, let's recap: The Indians used to be white, exceedingly fair and delightsome but then they turned their hearts against God and he made them dark skinned and full of mischief. Also, if you intermarry with an Indian, you will be cursed. The Nephites remained white and delightsome, unlike the Lamanites who turned dark skinned and became an idle people full of mischief.

I think I'm beginning to get the feeling that Mormons are really hung up on this "white and delightsome" thing.

[Ninong]

Yes, many Lamanites and Jews shall believe the word and become a delightsome people.

4 And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that they are descendants of the Jews.

5 And the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be declared among them; wherefore, they shall be restored unto the knowledge of their fathers, and also to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which was had among their fathers.

6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.

7 And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ shall also become a delightsome people.

From the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 30:4-7

Oops! Looks like only the Jews who believe in Christ get to be delightsome.

[Ninong]

2 For I, Nephi, have not taught them many things concerning the manner of the Jews; for their works were works of darkness, and their doings were doings of abominations.

From the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:2

[Ninong]

4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church.

5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.

From the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:4-6

I have found a lot of references to the Catholic Church as being founded by Jesus' little brother Satan. Another thing I noticed, they sure like to use the phrase "and it came to pass" a lot.

[Ninong]

3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:3

Another thing I've noticed about the Book of Mormon is that they repeat the same stuff over and over again. Maybe they think you didn't get it the first time around?

[Ninong]

15 And they that believe not in him shall be destroyed, both by fire, and by tempest, and by earthquakes, and by bloodsheds, and by pestilence, and by famine. And they shall know that the Lord is God, the Holy One of Israel.

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 6:15

[Ninong]

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

1 Nephi 16:18


9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel.

1 Nephi 4:9


The technology to make steel did not exist 2600 years ago.

[Ninong]

21 And it came to pass after they had loosed me, behold, I took the compass, and it did work whither I desired it. And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord; and after I had prayed the winds did cease, and the storm did cease, and there was a great calm.

22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did guide the ship, that we sailed again towards the promised land.

23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land.

24 And it came to pass that we did begin to till the earth, and we began to plant seeds; yea, we did put all our seeds into the earth, which we had brought from the land of Jerusalem. And it came to pass that they did grow exceedingly; wherefore, we were blessed in abundance.

25 And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.

1 Nephi 18:21-25

The "promised land" was America. Nephi used a compass 1800 years before compasses were invented and when he got to America, it came to pass that there were cows and horses already here. Wow! I didn't know that, did you? I thought the Conquistadors and the Jesuits brought those over some 2100 years later. I wonder if the Jesuits realized the Jews beat them here?

In case you're wondering, there were no Indians in America in 589 BCE. In fact, there were no other humans at all here in 589 BCE according to the Book of Mormon. All of the American Indians (Lamanites) are descendants of the Jews who came over in 589 BCE. Actually they're the ones whose hearts were turned against God, which is why they're no longer white and delightsome. Example of white and delightsome family.

Note that "it came to pass" seven different times in only five verses.

[Ninong]

Follow this link to the first chapter of the first book in the Book of Mormon

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

An account of Lehi and his wife Sariah and his four sons, being called, (beginning at the eldest) Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and Nephi. The Lord warns Lehi to depart out of the land of Jerusalem, because he prophesieth unto the people concerning their iniquity and they seek to destroy his life. He taketh three days’ journey into the wilderness with his family. Nephi taketh his brethren and returneth to the land of Jerusalem after the record of the Jews. The account of their sufferings. They take the daughters of Ishmael to wife. They take their families and depart into the wilderness. Their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness. The course of their travels. They come to the large waters. Nephi’s brethren rebel against him. He confoundeth them, and buildeth a ship. They call the name of the place Bountiful. They cross the large waters into the promised land, and so forth. This is according to the account of Nephi; or in other words, I, Nephi, wrote this record.

CHAPTER 1

Nephi begins the record of his people—Lehi sees in vision a pillar of fire and reads from a book of prophecy—He praises God, foretells the coming of the Messiah, and prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem—He is persecuted by the Jews. About 600 B.C.

1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.

P.S. -- I figured I may as well post a link to the very first page in the Book of Mormon for those who prefer to begin at the beginning, when Lehi took his wife and four sons and left Jerusalem for America (the promised land). Nephi is one of Lehi's sons. Oh, I almost forgot, they took the daughters of Ishmael as wives. According to Genesis, Ishmael was the eldest son of Abraham, born of the handmaiden of Abraham's wife. Since Ishmael died at the relatively young biblical age of only 137, I don't think he would have had any daughters still alive in 589 BCE. Besides, both the Jews and the Arabs claim that Ishmael is the father of the Arabs. I wonder if Nephi knew that? Oh, one more thing: Ishmael was the name on the return address of the package Cho Seung-Hui mailed just before he killed 32 Virginia Tech students and faculty and wounded 25 more.

I haven't figured out yet why Jews would write in Egyptian but maybe it's something they learned in Egypt before the Exodus?

[Ninong]

The LDS church is going to change a single word in its introduction to the Book of Mormon.

If you go get your Book of Mormon (or go to LDS.com) you'll find the following words in the last sentence of the second paragraph: "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."

But the new version will say, "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians."

Now if you haven't read the Book of Mormon, this might not seem like such a big deal to you. But the idea that Native Americans are the degenerate offspring of the Lamanite tribe is absolutely central to the Book of Mormon. In fact, other than Jesus showing up now and then in the New World, this is the most central theme of the book -- the proposition that Native Americans are descended from the Lamanites.

The leaders of the Mormon church are gradually moving away from the claim that all Native Americans are descendants of Jews who came to America in 589 BCE. Of course, anthropologists have known for many years that Native Americans migrated from Asia thousands of years ago, long before the Jaredites and the Nephites supposedly made their incredible journeys. But recent DNA evidence makes it impossible to deny any longer. The Book of Mormon is wrong; Native Americans did not descend from the Lamanites. That is what the LDS church is admitting with the one-word change in the introduction to the Book of Mormon.





Official introduction to Book of Mormon as posted on LDS website Dec. 15, 2007:

INTRODUCTION

The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.

The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.

The crowning event recorded in the Book of Mormon is the personal ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ among the Nephites soon after his resurrection. It puts forth the doctrines of the gospel, outlines the plan of salvation, and tells men what they must do to gain peace in this life and eternal salvation in the life to come.

After Mormon completed his writings, he delivered the account to his son Moroni, who added a few words of his own and hid up the plates in the hill Cumorah. On September 21, 1823, the same Moroni, then a glorified, resurrected being, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and instructed him relative to the ancient record and its destined translation into the English language.

In due course the plates were delivered to Joseph Smith, who translated them by the gift and power of God. The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

In addition to Joseph Smith, the Lord provided for eleven others to see the gold plates for themselves and to be special witnesses of the truth and divinity of the Book of Mormon. Their written testimonies are included herewith as “The Testimony of Three Witnesses” and “The Testimony of Eight Witnesses.”

We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Moroni 10: 3-5.)

Those who gain this divine witness from the Holy Spirit will also come to know by the same power that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, that Joseph Smith is his revelator and prophet in these last days, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s kingdom once again established on the earth, preparatory to the second coming of the Messiah.

[Ninong]

Except about the Mormon thing.

[Ninong]

A few things I learned about Mitt & his Mormon religion:

Mitt's great-grandfather moved the entire extended family to Mexico in 1884 after the LDS church outlawed polygamy. Mitt's great-grandfather had five wives, his great-great-grandfather had 12 wives. Mitt's ancestors were among the original founders of the Mormon religion and there were at least two apostles in Mitt's ancestry.

Mitt's father, George Romney, was born in Mexico and when he decided to run for president, the topic of whether he was even eligible came up. I think he probably was eligible but I can see why there might have been some doubt. George Romney's father moved to Mexico in the 1880's as a teenager with his father and grandfather. The fact that George Romney was born in Mexico of American-born parents probably made him a U.S. citizen.

I learned that the founder of the Mormon religion, Joseph Smith, had 33 wives. He also had a problem with alcohol. I wonder if he was even sober when he came up with some of this stuff? For example, did you know that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri? Yep, that's where it was according to the Book of Mormon. If Mitt is elected, he will probably turn the original site into a national park, the Garden of Eden National Park. They will probably sell a lot of plastic statues of Adam and Eve that you can glue on your dashboard.

Another thing I learned is that when Jesus returns to Earth again for the third time, he will reign for 1,000 years from Missouri and Jerusalem. This is not quite the same as what John of Patmos wrote in the Book of Revelation but I don't see any reason why this idea is any less worthy of belief if that's what you're into. Anyone who believes everything in the Book of Revelation shouldn't knock Mormons for believing Jesus will reign in Missouri for 1,000 years.

I think the Mormons may be moving away from the idea that all Native Americans are descendants of Israelites who came over here in 589 BCE. I just don't see how they can do that without throwing out the Book of Mormon because that's the central theme. And it does seem rather farfetched to believe that Native Americans used to be "white and delightsome" until God turned them dark-skinned because of their sins. Also, according to official Mormon doctrine, the penalty for intercourse with a Native American is that you will be cursed but the penalty for intercourse with a black person is instant death. On the spot! Instantaneously. Former U.S. Senator William Cohen is married to a black woman and he's still alive. I think. I saw him on teevee just last week.

I can see why Mitt may not be too eager to explain his Mormon religion to non-Mormons. They may find some of his beliefs a little strange. And they might even think his church is racist, to put it mildly. And then there's the matter of all the nasty things in the Book of Mormon about the Catholic church, which they say was founded by Jesus' little brother Satan.

Yep, I can see how Mitt might have a problem if people start asking questions about his Mormon religion. If he says he believes all that stuff, people might think he's nuts and if he says he doesn't believe some of it, then the LDS church would have to excommunicate him. That would be embarrassing seeing as how he's a bishop and a former state president.

Trivia: Steve Young, the former 49ers quarterback, is a direct descendant of Brigham Young. Thousands of people are direct descendants of Brigham Young. He had 56 children with his 51 wives!

[Ninong]

Proof that there is at least one black Mormon:

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is on teevee right now. (This performance was filmed in December 2006.)

Number of members in the choir: 360
Number of black members in the choir: 1

Number of members in the orchestra: 110
Number of black members in the orchestra: 0

All members of the choir and orchestra are Mormons. The guest soprano soloist, Sissel, is not a Mormon.

[SPasse]

Ninong,

I have a CD that is a great “crash course” in Mormonism.

http://www.watchman.org/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=Product.display&product_id=11 1

Granted that it was made by a Christian organization that’s mission is to lead people away from the Mormon faith to a Christian one.

But still it is factually accurate as far as its representation of core Mormon beliefs and texts.

I have my copy lent out but e-mail me your mailing address and I will send it to you when I get it back.

Regards,

Scott

[Ninong]

Scott,

There's more than enough stuff online about the LDS Church. There's a lot of stuff on Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the LDS Church, that I didn't bother to post. It reads like something from The Onion but it's all true as far as I can tell. I especially liked the part where he had to start all over dictating his translation of the plates.

When you think about it, Scientology isn't all that weird compared to Mormonism. In fact, they have similar beliefs in a lot of respects. Both incorporate other planets into their official dogma.

It's a fast-growing religion worldwide and I just wonder if they "preach" everything in the Book of Mormon and their other holy books to prospective converts??? Their official dogma is extremely racist and I just don't understand why people of color would sign up for this religion if they were obliged to accept all of that???

The Book of Mormon has many, many passages that were lifted verbatim from the Old Testament and it even has many phrases and sentences that are identical to passages in the New Testament and yet the New Testament wasn't written until hundreds of years later. Their explanation for this is that since both the Book of Mormon and the New Testament are divinely inspired, it's not surprising that God would inspire the exact same language more than once.

I really didn't know much about Mormonism other than the fact that they believe all Indians in the Americas are descended from Israelites who came here 2600 years ago. And I knew that they're not supposed to drink alcohol or caffeine and that all young men were expected to perform a mission shortly after high school.

I think it's hilarious that Mitt Romney chose Paris as the place to fulfill his missionary obligation. What a hardship! And, including his 2-1/2 year missionary work in France, it took him 10 years to finish school. He attended Stanford for only a few months before dropping out to undertake his missionary work and then, after he returned from France, he entered BYU for his undergraduate degree and then Harvard for his law degree and MBA. He was 28 by the time he graduated from Harvard and the war in Vietnam was over. That's not much different than what Newt Gingrich did. Newt spent about 10 years at Tulane getting a Ph.D. in history. It took that long because the Vietnam war lasted a long time.

BTW, the LeMonde correspondent interviewed Mitt in Iowa this past weekend in French. I think it was taped. Maybe that's not a handicap anymore now that Bush is dating Sarkozy.

[SPasse]

Ninong,

“It's a fast-growing religion worldwide and I just wonder if they "preach" everything in the Book of Mormon and their other holy books to prospective converts??? Their official dogma is extremely racist and I just don't understand why people of color would sign up for this religion if they were obliged to accept all of that???”

They very much avoid discussing core beliefs with new converts. (Or perhaps with much of their flock) The missionaries tell you that “we believe in the Bible, just like you. We just have some additional information.

Despite your comments about Mitt Romney and his Paris mission “obligation”, the missionaries are one of the key elements to their growth as a religion. There are very “clean cut” young men dressed in spotless white dress shirts, ties, and spit polished shoes. They knock on your door and offer to help you with your yard, clean you house etc. When I say clean cut, I mean that they look like GQ models (circa 1950’s) which provides a very stark contrast to the “gang banger” culture that quite frankly scares the pants off many people. People are thinking, “If they can turn out youth like that, they must be doing something right.”

They are trying to expand down here in East Texas as well, and we have seen a lot of them in our neighborhood lately.

I think they may get additional “combat pay”, for being a Mormon missionary down here in the “buckle” of the Southern Baptist Bible belt.

I agree though that anyone that takes a hard look at their beliefs will have a lot of “interesting” reading.

Regards,

Scott

[Aragorn]

I wonder if everyone would place the same scrutiny on a Democrat who happened to be Catholic.