Does He Have a Valid Point??

[orion25]

Hello All,

I got a copy of a speech that Charlston Heston gave at Harvard frrom a friend recently and it really made me think. A link to the speech is posted below. It is rather long so I did not post a copy of it here. Even though you may not agree with him please read it. It is very thought provoking. Well at least it was to me because I can relate to his message.

In case you are wondering it is not centered around gun control (which I am against). It only briefely mentions it. It is related to society and the things society condones and admonishes.

First a little background on the speech:

For 50 years, the Harvard Law School Forum has been sponsoring speeches by
luminaries ranging from Fidel Castro to Gerald Ford to Dr. Ruth. Sometimes
the speeches have generated a bit of media coverage, sometimes not. But one
given last month by Charlton Heston has taken on a life of its own. Heston,
the actor and conservative activist, delivered a stem-winder to about 200
listeners about "a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to
think and say what resides in your heart." "He knew he was coming to a
liberal environment, and clearly a group of his listeners was conservative
and another was more liberal," said David Christopherson, president of the
forum. About half respectfully challenged him during the questions. It
generated a lot of debate around the campus. But what happened caught us
off-guard. What happened was Rush Limbaugh's radio talk show. On March 15,
Limbaugh read the entire speech on the air, only to find himself bombarded
with thousands of requests for a copy of it. The same happened at Harvard
Law. "We couldn't keep up with all the requests," said Mike Chmura at
Harvard. "It really didn't have legs and might have been forgotten if Mr.
Limbaugh hadn't decided to deliver it."

Read, enjoy, and then form an opinion.

The Speech:

"Winning The Cultural War" by Charlton Heston

[icemark]

I liked it. I think it really rings true.

You know its refreshing to see someone of his generation (my parents generation) speaking up like that.

[orion25]

Thats why I posted it. He is closer to my grandparents generation and he recognized things that my generation have yet to aknowledge.

I agree with him fully and have been seriously rethinking the way I look at situations like he described.

Ryan

[Aragorn]

Yes, well done speech. Too bad we don't don't have any from our generation willing to make those sacrifices, eh? We just like to talk about how things should be. Here's one for you:
I heard on the radio that there are 2 school teachers in a city(didn't catch the name). One teacher was fired from her job for leading the class in prayer. Now, the other teacher was accused and admitted to having sex with a 15yr old student. This teacher is still on the job. What's wrong with this picture? I'll tell you what is wrong. Our morals, family values, "code of ethics" have gone down the toilet! Heck! We even tolerate our political leaders' "skirt chasing"! How did we get to this point? Yes, we are at war. And instead of making a difference ourselves, we expect our political leaders to do it for us(through more legislation and programs). If we don't do something soon, we will lose this war. Rome defeated itself. This is just my point of view.

[orion25]

I really hate political rants but I must go off on one now. Please do not take this as a flame Aragorn, it is just a statement of my opinions.

As far as the teacher who led the class in prayer; how could she or he be fired? If anyone says it was because of seperation of church and state I point you to two conflicting laws. First it is a law in the US that all coins and paper currency have the words "In God We Trust" printed on them. Second, why do some states prohibit the sale of alcohol on Sunday?

The teacher who had sex with a 15 year old should have been fired.... and put in prison for life. NO PAROLE.

As far as politicians skirt chasing. Who cares? How many people do you know of that have cheated on their spouses or significant others? I personally know of many. The only difference is that Clinton got caught, and only because he was a public figure. Some may say that he should have set a better example for the younger generation but what about the example that their parents are setting. Politicans should be judged not on their personal lives but on their public service records. (BTW I am neither a Democrat nor Republican, nor do I take much interest in politics. I have never voted B/C I have not found a cause or candidate worth my time yet.) In my opinion Clinton did a pretty good job considering what he inherited from the elder Bush. George W. also appears to be doing a good job. In spite of what everyone would like to think, the President is not the omnipotent ruler of the United States. He does not create all the good nor all the bad, although the press would like for us to believe he does. Lets not forget congress! They actually make the laws.

Anyway, I will step down off my soapbox now. I hate politics and can only hope that the world will heed to Mr. Heston's words.

Ryan

[Aragorn]

Orion25,

No problem. I'm just merely making a point. My point regarding the 2 teachers is this: We will tolerate sexual promiscuity but not tolerate religious beliefs? Hello? You may know, I'm not a "Bible Thumper" and I even posted on another board where I believe there should be a distinct separation of Church and State(the "In God we Trust" always puzzled me though ). I used our "illustrious" political leaders(can you say Jesse Jackson? ;)) as an example of our tolerance for what, I believe, is immoral behavior. Do I know of people who cheat? Certainly. Do I tolerate it? Certainly not. I have told more than one "friend" that what they are doing is wrong. I even got into a physical...altercation over it in one instance.

No, politics do not belong here because that is not the answer. The answer, IMO, is more "fundamental" than that. I totally agree with you regarding the example parents are setting. THAT IS THE PROBLEM! We're letting daycare, schools, TV educate our children!

We hand out condoms to our children in school for Christ's sake! Why should we have to do that? If we instilled in our children a basic set of moral values maybe we wouldn't have to hand out condoms. A condom does not address the real issue.

Mr. Heston's speech addressed IceT and the lyrics. What reasoning, moral parent would allow their children to listen to...music...that glorifies killing and raping? I guess I'm politically incorrect when I tell my kids that they will not bring that garbage into this house....TOO BAD KIDS! It's my house!

I totally agree with what that speech has in it. Unfortunately, too many people are too busy meddling in the affairs of others to even look at themselves and realize change begins within. We are becoming a nation of "weaklings" that are too afraid to say and/or do anything for fear of reprisals. Where are the Martin Luther Kings? Where are the Thomas Jeffersons, the Lincolns, the Kennedys(yes JFK was pretty good...I said it...a conservative republican )?

It all about standing up for what is "right" and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, regardless of what people may do to you.

BTW, Thanks for posting the link. I've already printed it.

[petpoor]

Aragorn,
You should have seen the look on our 13 yr olds face when his mom went into his room and yanked that 'Slim Shady" tape out of his player and proceeded to pull out the tape out of the cassette and trash it. He now thinks we are the meanest parents in the world "cause all my friends get to listen to it" so we said too bad so sad not in this house. Hopefully when he is grown he wiil understand the reason why we do the things we as parents do, I remember as a kid I sometimes thought my parents were mean but as I got older I am glad they were.

Tom

[Aragorn]

Petpoor,

Good for you folks. Yeah, one of my boys tried bringin in a Brotha Lynch CD. I heard him playing it. So I came in, looked at the jewel case w/ the song titles and promptly broke the CD case and CD in half. Oh yeah, he tried to protest....for about 2 seconds.

[MarkS]

petpoor and Aragorn, I now have a renewed and profound respect for both of you.

Hey, let's hear of other parents that have "Trashed the trash"!

Mark

[PerryinCA]

As a whole, the speech was a step in the right direction. but...

Rant following, reader discretion is advised

I think that using the Ice-T thing was a total contradiction to what the whole speech was about. He talks about freedom, and basic rights (something I always considered free speech part of) and then bashes Ice T. Ice T was talking about the racial beatings, shootings, and harassment that the cops instilled on those of black heritage, he saw wrong and sang about it. I see nothing wrong with that. I agree that some of the songs were tastless, some downright disgusting, but if it got people to listen to the other songs on the cd (which had strong equality messages) then he did the right thing IMO. Sure maybe the record label shouldn't have advertised it to 12 year old kids, but the song wasn't about killing cops, it was a metaphor, no different than the bible in my eyes.

As for the prayer in school, I think that I would want a teacher fired for preaching to my children. Kids are far too impressionable, and I wouldn't want my kid growing up believing in an invisible friend just because someone told him/her they existed. Once the child is old enough to understand the implications and read religious text on their own, then they can make descisions for themselves. Personally I think that there should be an age limit to when children can attend church. Its a form of brainwashing.

As for the 15 year old thing. I'd say, lock the teacher up, and once the kid is 18, let them make the decision as to whether or not they feel they were taken advantage of, or if they think it was wrong. There are some 15 year olds that are much smarter and competent than the average 18 year old. There is far too much emphasis put on age in our culture. I know 30 year olds that are half as mature, and responsible as my 15 year old sister.

As a parent, you have the choice to send your children to a religious learning institution, it shouldn't be the local public 1st grade class.

As for the music thing, I agree....your house, your choice. Personally, I like Brotha Lynch.

Then to the promiscuity thing...I agree taht cheating is the wrong thing to do, then again its funny because my(as just about everyone in here) thought on marraige and monogamy is 100% culturally induced. Had we grown up in a different culture, we might think differently. In fact, for the evolution of human species, competitive polygamy is likely better for humanity as a whole.

Many mormons still believe that there is nothing wrong with polygamy, after all, when the magical gold plates boinked Joe Smith on the head, he had a couple wives.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but just trying to get people to take a step back and really think about all the things we have been taught growing up. If a man has 3 wives, and they are all happy together in one home, where is the error? Why is it an 18 year old man can go to war for his country, and give his life, but not drink a beer at a bar? Just a couple minor things that add up to the superficial world we live in.

Our country is screwed up, and every law that is passed takes a little more of our freedom. The lazy government makes more laws instead of enforcing the ones we have because its cheaper.

man....getting off track here. Gonna stop, and take a breath.

My comments aren't directed at anyone, just opinions on comments already made...and a few random thoughts.

-Perry

[orion25]

Perry,

Well Said!

Ryan

[Mikeman]

the teacher I beleave should have been fired when she lead the classes in class prair personally I don't care about the teacher sleeping with a students, the boy had to do something too,

another thing that torks me off, what's wrong with marujuna(sp) I have never tried it, but like cigaretes, and beer, I plan not to, I mean no one has ever died of pot unless they got in a car and killed themselves and/or other ppl, but I beleave their are a couple of things that do this too(beer, cds, cell phones, being tired, tires, broken brakes........) we let ppl smoke cigaretes but they will kill themselves, ppl can get liver cancer from from beer but they do it anyway.

also the second amendment I think is stupid now a days, I know that alot of ppl here like guns so I'm probably not going to make many friends today, so no offence, the second amendment was built for the malitia and ppl that lived in the 1700s, it was built to defend ourselves from other countries, not eachother.

I'm done thanks guys

[orion25]

Mikeman,

I did not take any offence to your 2nd ammendment remarks but..... I am an avid gun guy. I consider guns to be a hobby much like my reef. Marksmanship is a very difficult thing to master, much like reefs. We all cringe when there is legislation pending that would harm reef keeping yet we applaud gun legislation. Why is this, guns kill people - improper collecting practices kill natural wonders that took centuries to build. I do not want the government telling me which guns I can and cannot own . If it would enforce it's own laws further gun control would be unnecessary.

In contridiction to Mr. Heston and the NRA, I believe background checks and waiting periods are a good thing. I, a law abiding citizen, have never needed a firearm so badly that I could not wait 5 days. All this means to me is that I will have to wait a little while to go to the range with my new toy.

BTW, I agreee with your marijuana statement. Why condone tobacco and ban marijuana?

Ryan

[MarkS]

Originally posted by orion25
BTW, I agreee with your marijuana statement. Why condone tobacco and ban marijuana?

Because marijuana, although mild, is a mind altering drug. It's effects are very much simular to alcohol, but seriously and permanently damage the brain rather then the liver. A great many deaths have been caused by marijuana; usually indirectly. The reason that is illegal is that it takes so little to cause an altered mind state. It is far more dangerous than alcohol.

Mark

[orion25]

MarkS,

I respect your opinion but name 5 people whou have died from marijuana. Personally I can name more than 15 that have died due to the effects of alcohol.

The only difference in alcohol and marijuana is that the alcohol producers have lobbying groups and have a major financial influence on this country.

Ryan

[Trapper]

Marks. After reading your post on your belief of marijuana, and it's supposedly worse consequence's. I feel as I must express my experience's. I know people that have smoked marijuana for decade's with no side effect's. They are ambitous, intelligent individual's who are as in touch with the world around them as any one else on this board. Oblivously the smear campaign on marijuana has had it's influence on your opinion. Carl Sagan a respected scientist, in his last testament admitted to being a pot smoker, and devolped one of his most popular theories while under the infulence of marijuana. Clearly the evidence points in the other direction. Do your research. Just because someone has had a bad experince with something does'nt mean everyone will. We should as American's have the right to explore are own tolerance's to substance's. We have been programmed by movie's that whenever you go through some thing stressful,painful you need a shot of whiskey. And that's ok. Obvisously propaganda is alive and well in the USA. And as far as marijuana being a transitional drug is absurd. If a person is in the mode to experiment he will go through any thing he can get his hands on. And since the 40 billion we spend on drug enforcment a year has done nothing to reduce the availability of drugs whats the point. Maybe we were just trying to segregate a part of society that does not adhere to everything that come's out of a politician's mouth, or off the pulpit. Well anyway that's my two cent's

[PerryinCA]

The reason that is illegal is that it takes so little to cause an altered mind state

Wrong. the reason it was made illegal was to discriminate against the people who used it at the time of its initial prohibition. The populus who smoked MJ as opposed to drinking just happened ot be the rancheros, and migrant farmers of latin origin. No differently than cocaine being banned because it was a "black" drug.

A narco police officer once came to a neighborhood watch meeting and stated that marijuana is the #1 cash crop of california. Being a highly agricultural state, I found that to be pretty amazing. Imagine the wealth of money the government would stand to make of they collected just 5% of all capitol traded through the MJ market. Income taxes would drop like a rock. The drug war is a whole other issue....the government is handling everything wrong....

But the gun issue, I can see subjectively on this. I feel it would be in societies best interest if there we NO guns allowed period, BUT, I personally have guns, and scream and holler everytime they try to take another one off the market. Why? Because it is a freedom to be able to have them. The 2nd amendment was made to protect the people from the government. I feel I deserve that protection. If you think that this country won't see another revolutionary war, you are kidding yourself. History has shown that governments rise and fall, and rise again, revolutions happen constantly. It won't happen in my lifetime, but when it does, I hope the people have the ability to rise above the supression. Without arms it will be impossible.

-Perry

[organicreefer]

man dont get me started on the illegality of marijuana,CAMP,or the war on drugs in general.anyone see traffic?
what i really wanted to say is
orion:thank you for pointing out the speech i have a coworker who listens to rush(i cant stand him, even though i dont consider myself republican i find i usually vote that way its not really his politics just the way he goes about it )but i missed the speech i really liked it .
and i also wanted to point out that our forefathers gave us the right to have and bear arms to PROTECT US FROM THE TYRANNY OF GOVERNMENT