Moron-of-the-Month Club

[schrocat]

Juan,

Personal reefsites are generally not set up as dot coms for the purpose of informing people.
Also, 99% of personal websites (reef related) don't try to make money. Either through paypal incentives or the sale of wet dry filters.
Experiences are usually published, but as you've learned, a lot of responsibility and possible scrutiny appears to go along with it.

Glad we could increase the hits though.
Good luck on the article submissions.

later,

Schrocat

[organicreefer]

forget changing the name of the thread,most of you seem to think its cool anyway,how about we all just quit posting replies to it,and let it die.

[chromis]

Originally posted by Juan
I have read all of your notes after my response and I am glad you have offered to help me spread the KNOWLEDGE to other New Aquarist.!!

I have seen some of your sites (all the ones in the LINKS section here)and I noticed that they lack the BASIC "HOW TO's " on setting up and Maintaining fish tank's or REEF tanks. They all have photos of their own tanks and friends tanks and peoples tanks, BUT where is the info that I was so brutally abused for?
Where can begginers understand HOW to set up and HOW a cycle works and the importance of BACTERIA???

Where can they go?

To www.aquariumfacts.com !!!!

I challenge ALL of you to e- mail me Articles with substance that I can post monthly so NEWBIES will be kept up to date with the latest.

You will receive credit for the article

Your pages Have nice photo galleries but lets remain true to the BASICS.. (so that begginers get well informed)

Umm, they can go to an info filled site. I dont understand why you think a site for newbies by newbies is such a good idea? I think that is a horrible idea. The members here have sites for other members to see and enjoy, not to attempt to offer a complete guide for newbies. Bob fenner, albert thiel, Dr. Ron all have sites for these things. Also you even said you were no profesional, so why are you asking for $$? Even Dr. Ron and Bob fenner hand out their knowledge for free! I completely dont understand all that mumbo jumbo about leaving fish in the ocean. Am I missing something I really think you should reconsider if you are capable of being what you say you want to be. The people who have sites such as yours put ALOT into them and have been in the hobby long enough to set up such sites. We dont need an online lfs, I get almost the exact advise from the fish boys at my lfs as I found on your site. Sorry if you feel like youve been flamed.

For the next moron of the month I nominate FFExpress, if you havent seen it yet they are selling stonefish

IMHO
Andrew

[Juan]

I dont get it, Im welcomed or Im not.
Whats up here?
First of all Im not a Newbie teaching NEwbies!!

I have kept and maintained Numerous Fish tanks in my Area for the past 10 years. Some salt and some fresh water. (Never a reef), this is new to me. I have been working in an aquarium for the past 5 yrs and I maintain their fresh and saltwater tanks as well!!
EVERYTHING ON MY site has been proven to work. You continue to put me down and Im here to get a little knowledge so that i can spread it to the newbies. AND this is the USA, If I make a buck or two while I do it SO WHAT??!!

by the way..I no longer accept money on the site and the wet-dry drop-ins that a good friend of mine asked me to sell for him have not produced any income at all, but he asked so I did.
So I dont need you and your snooty comments about profiting from new jacks to the hobby.

This better be the LAST time I have to come in here and justify what I do. I HELP THOSE THAT YOU DONT!!!..THATS WHAT I DO!

Peace! IM OUT!

[Reinhold]

Juan:

Realize that those who frequent this BB don't speak with one unified voice. Some people think what you do is stupid and misleading, others are okay with it. I personally don't think that the name-calling is appropriate, especially from a moderator, but that's just me.

On the other hand, when you place a web site on the net purporting to instruct and guide, you should be responsible and accountable for the information you post. Being told that the information you give may be innappropriate or out-of-date is the price you pay for placing yourself in the public domain as an expert, and yes, that is what you are doing on your site.

You can choose to do more thorough research and alter your advice, or you can blow off all of the critics and post whatever you want, including pictures of nurse sharks in small tanks. No one can stop you.

[ravenmore]

I've stayed out of this thread on purpose until now. I pretty much agree with what Reinhold just said, to the letter.

Guys, I think the name calling, up to and including the title of this thread, was a bit harsh. I was cringing a little waiting for Juan to show up. The reason being that I believe we are here to educate and support, and the tact taken towards Juan was counter productive. When you start insulting someone, they immediately shut you down and dismiss you (usually) as a source of positive influence.

We probably should've gotten Juan's side of the story first. I noticed several of you changed your tune once Juan showed up (and frankly posted a very mature response considering the harsh language that had already been used against him at this point) and explained his side of the story.

I simply think we (our community) jumped the gun in launching a personal attack.

Juan - the idea to educate others is a good one. I get the sense, however, that you are basing your efforts more on experience than on academic study. Your methods may be working somewhat for you, but there are, IMO, better ways to keep a tank. I strongly encourage you to research further. If I could make some suggestions, I would recommend you read everything you can get your hands on from Bob Fenner, Dr. Ron Shimek, and Eric Borneman(there are other good/current authors on the subject, but those will keep you busy for quite a while). Dr. Shimek and Eric are even available to question at Reef Central's message board. I also strongly recommend message boards, even if you don't post. I like reefland, reef central, and reefs.org, but there are others.

Allrighty guys. I'm done. I think I'm gonna need a parachute to climb down from this soapbox.....

Play nice,
-Mike

[Mikeman]

I wasn't going to touch this thread with a 10 foot pole until seems to be the most inteligent think I heard on the thread

Juan:

Realize that those who frequent this BB don't speak with one unified voice. Some people think what you do is stupid and misleading, others are okay with it. I personally don't think that the name-calling is appropriate, especially from a moderator, but that's just me.

On the other hand, when you place a web site on the net purporting to instruct and guide, you should be responsible and accountable for the information you post. Being told that the information you give may be innappropriate or out-of-date is the price you pay for placing yourself in the public domain as an expert, and yes, that is what you are doing on your site.

You can choose to do more thorough research and alter your advice, or you can blow off all of the critics and post whatever you want, including pictures of nurse sharks in small tanks. No one can stop you.

[jcwbnimble]

Wow,

I just joined this board because there was a link to another board I have been a member of for years. I thought it was interesting that most of the replies were sooo negative. What is the use of telling someone they are a moron? Do you wish to shut down the interactive process all together?

That's what happens when you insult people, rather than try to explain your point of view and see if they can relate. I commend him for trying to start a website for newbies. The fact that some of the information is not what I would recommend to a newbie it irrelevant. Too me, the pricing on the LFS tank on the same website, was more disturbing.

From the changes on his website (removal of pictures, etc), its sounds like the emails people sent (hopefully constructive and polite) were the key factors in changing the information he was providing. It seems the disassociative nature of the web has led to demise in politeness and courtesy. Maybe it's just the fact that almost everyone is watching the Sopranos, and the MOB mentality is edging into their other interactions.

Next time you find a post or website or message you don't agree with, don't fly off the handle and start calling people names. You will always get farther by being polite and explaining your qualm, than by insulting them.

Juan, your website shows good initiative, but you may want to wait to see what happens to that nurse shark when it reaches 6ft in length before putting pictures on a newbie site. Shark keeping definitely does not fall under the beginner category.

Good luck,

Scott.

[golfish]

I'm with Reinhold... I think we ALL need to stand back, have a coke and smile and think about what were all writting here. Juan sounds like a nice guy to me. I don't agree with some of his ideas but no need to start the name calling.......

Somebody needs to apologize

[AquaSeahorse]

I'm shocked to see this kind of thing here at Reefland. However the main thing that actually gets me is that this was all started by a moderator. A moderator resorting to "Moron of the month club." I do indeed agree that someone owes someone an apology. This has all been taken way out of porportion. C'mon guys you know there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things, name calling is not the right way.....

[jwtrojan44]

I'm new here, and have been reading with interest all the hoopla about the nurse shark in the 72 gal. While I too was disgusted by this, I wish you could all see what one of the local lfs has! This guy took in a nurse shark from some kid who purchased the thing not knowing how big it would get. Now the lfs in question has this three foot nurse shark in a three foot long tank! I swear by all that is holy!
I was appalled. To my knowledge, it has been there for the past month at least. He wants a hundred bucks for it. This poor creature can not even swim or turn around unless it does so in a vertical
fashion! Someone would be doing this animal a favor by putting it into a 72 gal., if even to let it stretch out! Who can we petition to ban the trade of such animals for home aquarium use? I'm thinking of reporting
him to the SPCA but I don't know what they would do.