Calling all experienced FW people

[Original Fin]

I've aquired a free 25 Gal Hex tank that I'd like to set up for freshwater. I have no FW experience, so looking for some advice.

I got into ReefKeeping about a year ago. Sort of jumped right into the deep end. Prior to that, I never even had a goldfish. Maybe a beta or two, lol.

Anyone that follows my thread knows I made most of the rookie mistakes in reefing, and then I got creative and made up a few of my own too. Now I'm like a reformed smoker, telling all newbies not to make the same mistakes I made. And I hate reormed smokers. Oh, BTW, I AM a reformed smoker too. Yes, I suppose I'm a bit conflicted, but aren't we all?.

The equipment is pretty simple. It's a 25 gal hex with an oak stand and one small access door. I don't see much usable area in there for extra equipment (I tend to look at things with a reefers eye) but that's ok...I don't want anything fancy or expensive equipment wise for this. It came with a glass hinged top, an old hang on cartridge filter, a 100 watt heater and a 14W fluorescent light So, what I'm looking for advice wise, is this:

-Can anyone suggest a good forum for freshwater fishkeeping? Prefferably one like RL with lots of sticky how-to threads?

-I'm used to big reef tanks with only a couple fish. In this FW tank, I want schools of small fish, not just a couple medium to large ones. Looking for recommendations on small fish that don't require a bunch of specialized equipment or extra care.

-Is it possible to keep inverts and fish together? If so, which ones match well? Would love to have some shrimp and snails in there if possible.

-I don't go for the standard bright plastic plants, pirate ships and neon gravel. I do like the look of driftwood. Is it possible to grow some sort of live plants without getting into CO2 dosers and monitors? Just some moss type of stuff for the driftwood would be nice. Oh, and what does driftwood do to PH? Will that narrow down the field on compatible fish?

-Other than that, husbandry I imagine is just WC, gravel vac and clean the glass, no?

-

[chrisfont23]

I've aquired a free 25 Gal Hex tank that I'd like to set up for freshwater. I have no FW experience, so looking for some advice.

I got into ReefKeeping about a year ago. Sort of jumped right into the deep end. Prior to that, I never even had a goldfish. Maybe a beta or two, lol.

Anyone that follows my thread knows I made most of the rookie mistakes in reefing, and then I got creative and made up a few of my own too. Now I'm like a reformed smoker, telling all newbies not to make the same mistakes I made. And I hate reormed smokers. Oh, BTW, I AM a reformed smoker too. Yes, I suppose I'm a bit conflicted, but aren't we all?.

The equipment is pretty simple. It's a 25 gal hex with an oak stand and one small access door. I don't see much usable area in there for extra equipment (I tend to look at things with a reefers eye) but that's ok...I don't want anything fancy or expensive equipment wise for this. It came with a glass hinged top, an old hang on cartridge filter, a 100 watt heater and a 14W fluorescent light So, what I'm looking for advice wise, is this:

-Can anyone suggest a good forum for freshwater fishkeeping? Prefferably one like RL with lots of sticky how-to threads?

-I'm used to big reef tanks with only a couple fish. In this FW tank, I want schools of small fish, not just a couple medium to large ones. Looking for recommendations on small fish that don't require a bunch of specialized equipment or extra care.

-Is it possible to keep inverts and fish together? If so, which ones match well? Would love to have some shrimp and snails in there if possible.

-I don't go for the standard bright plastic plants, pirate ships and neon gravel. I do like the look of driftwood. Is it possible to grow some sort of live plants without getting into CO2 dosers and monitors? Just some moss type of stuff for the driftwood would be nice. Oh, and what does driftwood do to PH? Will that narrow down the field on compatible fish?

-Other than that, husbandry I imagine is just WC, gravel vac and clean the glass, no?

-

I'm your huckleberry I have over 500 gallons of FW fish and my wife thinks I am nuts. Email me at chrisfont23@gmail.com if you have any questions. For freshwater, I used Tropical Fish, Aquarium Fish, Care for Saltwater and Freshwater Fish, Aquarium Setup to do a lot of research. Since I had experience, I didn't join any forums. To answer your questions

- I have a shoal of cardinal tertas (about 9). They are smaller than an inch and don't get much bigger. They'd be perfect for your tank. I also have a shoal of pristella tetras and a few serpae tetras (yes I like tetras). They are in my 30 g fully planted hex tank. So tetra's are easy. On the little larger side, check out Boesmani Rainbows.

- Yes. I have a variety of snails (ramshorn snails and nerite snails) as well as "pest snails." Cichlids can pick them off, so be careful about how you keep them.

- I would be careful about wood and PH. You can throw an imbalance pretty easily. I have a fully planted 30 g hex. I can show u pics if you like. I dose the recommended Seachem Flourish Excel regularly. I use a Fluval 305 Canister filter with Carbon and GFO (sound familiar). I also use prefilter and biomax. I also use gravel as (I think) it promotes better nutrient division for my planted tank. Depending on the light, you should not have issues. "Red" plants will require a brighter light than "green" ones, if that makes sense. I would focus on Java Ferns, Java Moss, Amazon Swords and Ferns. They are easier to keep. Anything that "shines" is not a water plant. And when you get your stuff straight, check out the banana plants. I have them in my hex tank and they literally grow to the top of the tank for the light and bloom.

- About husbandry...it's easier than my reef - yes, but not by much. The concepts are the same. MB7 is now StressZyme. RO/DI is now 2 days of tap in a 5 gallon bucket plus StressCoat Plus. Vodka is...well, not used. And with a fully planted tank, you don't even need to clean the gravel.

For ALL THE HELP YOU HAVE GIVEN ME... I am happy to help u with your FW endeavor!

Good luck!

- Chris

[chrisfont23]

Looks like the edit button doesn't work...so anyway...forgot one answer: inverts are tricky. In my experience they were either dinner (for my pufferfish) or they were predators (killing my fish). I suppose you could do the research, but I never did. I actually have an African Dwarf Frog in my hex. He must be the best swimmer ever b/c he has been alive for a while now (gets to surface w/ no problem) and fights with the Chinese Algae Eater (5 times his size) for food. Also...for filtration, don't look past the Fluval Canisters. They're made for this thing.

[Original Fin]

Hey, thanks for all the advice so far on FW tanks. I really need it. Something like Tetras are just what I had in mind. Now I've got the itch to know more about planted tanks though.

Sent you an email. Thanks!

[Original Fin]

Well here we go! Picked up gravel and driftwood today. River rocks holding the driftwood down. The plants are fakes that I already had... Just to give an idea, but live plants are on the way. Baby's tears and dwarf grasses up front, and haven't decided on midground and backdrop yet.My initial thoughts for stocking are 10 cardinal tetras (thanks Chris!) 4 corys and an oto.The little girl wanted to watch the new fishtank and read stories before bed tonight!

[Kmoriarty]

Looks great fin! I've got my own little freshwater setup with a little school of zebra danios. 16 gallon tank I've had setup for a little over a year. It's so easy compared to salt. 2 feedings a day and a water change / filter cartridge replacement every two weeks. I do 5 gallons every two weeks which may actually be overboard but it's been working so why change a good thing. Good luck!

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

What!? No treasure chest bubbler!? I'm so disappointed

[chrisfont23]

My initial thoughts for stocking are 10 cardinal tetras

Looks awesome. The shoal is a great idea too. Just beware the LFS and associated idiot working there, who sells cardinals tagged as "neons" Cardinals have the red stripe across the whole body and neons don't. Cardinals are also impossible to breed. Just make sure you keep your nitrates low as they are very susceptible to this in a tank.

[Original Fin]

Mt. Wanna-hok-a-loogy and the ring of fire will have no place in this setup!

I'm hoping that the plants will pull out some of the nitrates, and the bottom feeder should help (in theory) too. If not, at least this isn't a huge tank and water changes will be a snap.
The small footprint and busy aquascaping will make gravel vaccuming nearly impossible...hope those plants can handle the nutrients! Here's to slow and methodical stocking to find out.

Questions I'm researching:

My tap water is testing a high PH of 7.6. Am I going to be better off doing water changes with RO (which tests 6.4) and add essential minerals back in? Will those minerals help to raise PH a bit? Seems like both are at opposite ends of most acceptable ranges and I'd be better off somewhere in the middle.

[chrisfont23]

Mt. Wanna-hok-a-loogy and the ring of fire will have no place in this setup!

I'm hoping that the plants will pull out some of the nitrates, and the bottom feeder should help (in theory) too. If not, at least this isn't a huge tank and water changes will be a snap.
The small footprint and busy aquascaping will make gravel vaccuming nearly impossible...hope those plants can handle the nutrients! Here's to slow and methodical stocking to find out.

Questions I'm researching:

My tap water is testing a high PH of 7.6. Am I going to be better off doing water changes with RO (which tests 6.4) and add essential minerals back in? Will those minerals help to raise PH a bit? Seems like both are at opposite ends of most acceptable ranges and I'd be better off somewhere in the middle.

I think you will be fine w/ tap... just be consistent. I think the RO/DI would be too much stripped, which might not be good for the livestock (not sure about the plants, so research that). And don't use the RO/DI waste. I tried once and the results were not good. My fish were gasping and I was doing daily 30 percenters. Ugly.

IMO, I would go tap. To be safe I would progress w/ tap in a bucket, uncovered. Let sit for 24-48 hrs and test your PH. You can add stress coat to the bucket right before you add to the tank as it tends to bind with the Chlormanies and hard metals at the time and settle as residue in the bottom. That won't swing your PH. I think that process should give you the results you need as it's the one I currently follow.

As w/ reef its all maintaining PH consistency and that's how I try (my best) to do so w/ regard to water chgs. I believe cardinals prefer a lower PH - I am not sure about the other two. My son's tank is around 7.5...which is not low...but consistent.

[Marinefish]

Notes on the fish: cories need sinking food, every 2 days is good. Ottos need algae wafers or boiled cucumber slices if the algae is the incredibly hard stuff or if there isn't any. Bamboo shrimp are easy to keep, but they are mostly filter feeders like porcelain crabs. Cherry shrimp are easy if the tank is cycled, ghosts are VERY cheap as they are feeders, however survival in these is 50% as they aren't treated well. Another candidate is a FEMALE betta (or two if there are lots of plants). I have kept all of these but the cherries, they don't like hard water.

[Original Fin]

Notes on the fish: cories need sinking food, every 2 days is good. Ottos need algae wafers or boiled cucumber slices if the algae is the incredibly hard stuff or if there isn't any. Bamboo shrimp are easy to keep, but they are mostly filter feeders like porcelain crabs. Cherry shrimp are easy if the tank is cycled, ghosts are VERY cheap as they are feeders, however survival in these is 50% as they aren't treated well. Another candidate is a FEMALE betta (or two if there are lots of plants). I have kept all of these but the cherries, they don't like hard water.

I think I'm going to forego the shrimp and inverts for a while. Thanks for the feeding tips...the ottos and cories are still on my list of candidates. I spoke with some more FW enthusiasts at a frag swap on Sunday and learned a few more things about Tetras. They were explaining that Cardinal Tetras are 99% wild caught, so I may go with captive bred Neons instead...just a personal choice. Also, I think that captive bred fish are more likely to adapt to a wider array of conditions and are generally hardier.


Anybody know about the trade origins of ottos and cories? Hopefully these are captive bred too. If not, can anyone suggest bottom feeders and algae grazers that are captive bred that would be appropriately sized for this small 25 gal tank and get along with NT's?

[Marinefish]

I think I'm going to forego the shrimp and inverts for a while. Thanks for the feeding tips...the ottos and cories are still on my list of candidates. I spoke with some more FW enthusiasts at a frag swap on Sunday and learned a few more things about Tetras. They were explaining that Cardinal Tetras are 99% wild caught, so I may go with captive bred Neons instead...just a personal choice. Also, I think that captive bred fish are more likely to adapt to a wider array of conditions and are generally hardier. Anybody know about the trade origins of ottos and cories? Hopefully these are captive bred too. If not, can anyone suggest bottom feeders and algae grazers that are captive bred that would be appropriately sized for this small 25 gal tank and get along with NT's?

All bettas are captive bred, most cories are too. Not sure about ottos, pretty sure a 5" fish called a rubber lip pleco is. Same care as ottos, just more food. The one called sail fin plecos or just plecos get to 2 FEET!

[Original Fin]

It's alive!

I found a couple more 24" T8 hoods in the garage. Forgot I had these but they came with my 55, and they are 6500k, so that's just about right for what I'm trying to accomplish.
So, along with the other 20" T8, there's just shy of 50 watts, which should be enough for most low to medium light plants in this small tank. It looks a little frankenstein with three separate hoods perched on top, but I might try to build a canopy to enclose it all.

On Friday, I added three plants. A Mellon sword, one that looks like the aquatic version of Hostas, and another tall vine like one with small round leaves.
None of them were perfect to begin with, and all had some leaves that didn't look so hot, but for the most part they looked good. After two days, they look pretty much the same, except for the tall one, and that one actually greened up some towards the top.
I would say so far so good on the plants. I also added the first two fish. Two small cats, a Cory, and an Oto. They were lethargic for the first 12 hours, but they're quite active since then.

I should probably move this thread to the freshwater section. I didn't notice there was one when I originally posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mad Mead]

hey fin
I love FW. I kept puffers for 5 years and moved them to three times. I started with one at 4cm. so much fun he would lay on tinny leave of plants at night to rest. round fines and eye brows.. I then went back and got 4 more. they all got to big for me to keep at 5in long and 3in round. I got them to play with pingpong balls and where very friendly. My last home was in Chicago. I worked at Blue Plate it catering and we did a lot at the Shed. so I worked it out for them to take my Puffers and they are still there.
I it is good your going backwards your husband ship is great. you the same check levels and you can add a few things to help the plants grow faster. I go back in my books and look it up for you. I did dips for my fish as well.
now I feed fresh shrimp to mine and kept a tank with shrimp in them its easy.
I go threw my boxs of note books and get all I think is useful for you

[Marinefish]

Forgot to mention it, but cories need groups of at least 4, ottos prefer a friend or two.

[Original Fin]

Thanks Marine...I intend to add three more Corys and one more Oto over the coming weeks. Then on to the Tetras.

I've noticed the Oto is a bit on the skinny side comparing to the Cory. I was reading that zucchini can be a good supplement to tank algae for these fish, so I was going to give that a try. They mentioned parboiling it to soften it up first. Would you have any additional feeding tips for me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chrisfont23]

Fin, try boiled zucchini, cucumbers or even yams/sweet potatoes. It's best to blanch them. You can even veggie clip them to the tank. If you aren't into making dinner twice, just pick up some algae wafers from your LFS. I use the ones Wardley makes.

[Original Fin]

Ok, just got back from my neighborhood LFS with two more Corys.
I also just put a slice of blanched organic zucchini in. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the other tips!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Original Fin]

The zucchini was a big hit. They mostly ignored it for the first 24 hours, but there was no trace left of it by the third day.

The corys seem really happy in their little group of three now. They are all very active, whereas before, the first one seemed mostly lethargic.
Thats still the case with the Oto. He needs a friend too, but I want to wait at least a week between adds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk