[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by mrok12


Don't we all manipulate loop hole to avoid paying higher taxes, taking whatever deductions we can; this example I have given is itself a loop hole response to yours.

There are lots of people who were born here who avoid taxation. I say we get upset with the people who wrote the laws that allow them these tax loop hole, not at them for taking advantage of them.

MROK12

I don't know why the thread was deleted but here is my reply that I tried to post but the thread disappeared before I could

Are you serious?? So by your logic we should be upset with banks for having money for people to steal?? I guess we should not worry about rapist either since the real problem are those dang women who allow them the opportunity to rape

People do take as many deductions as we can I agree. That is not what I am saying. These people avoid paying taxes all together. To me that is an unforgivable act.........I came from a very blue collar family, my dad worked his body to it's limits in a steel mill for 33 years and my mother worked full time while raising 3 children. They didn't cheat and use loopholes to not pay taxes. That is not the way this country works and if you are not doing your part no matter how small it is in my opinion you are not an American. You are just a parastite living off other's sweat, blood and tears.

Lets look one more time at your American "brothers"

• Live and make a living in this country yet refuse to pay taxes
• Live in isolated groups made up of only other arabs
• Wear turbins on their heads and dress like they are still in the Middle East
• Most have no interest in learning the language of our country

I will say again that this is not how all arabs behave.......but I would also say it is how most arabs behave. So please do not try and engrave these people into our society like they are such an integral part of the American landscape.

[drlowz]

this thread was totally unfair..Just because the way someone looks or where they are born. I am from a german background do you hate me too???

[Salty Dog]

drlowz,

I have made it very clear that my words are not meant as a "kill em all" hatred towards arabs.

I am responding to statements made that portray these people as woven into the American fabric like baseball and apple pie when in fact much of their behavior is not very "American" at all.

Do you consider someone who does the things that I have listed an "American brother" on the same level as say a hard working middle class family who pays taxes, does not isolate themselves from others, speaks english or at least tries??

Please do not twist words and make these statements out to be hate filled attacks on arabs or just general dislike of anyone different.

Why on earth would anyone welcome someone with open arms as an "American brother" when they make no effort whatsoever to do anything "American" except make money and live free?? American life is not a one way street.........you must do your part to support the country no matter how small that is and I just don't see that from a large portion of the arab population.

Do you get the same feeling of American pride and brotherhood when you see families together at a parade or sporting event as when you see a group of arabs in robes and turbins speaking a different language and not interacting with others???

No one has said anything hateful at all. I don't know where you got that impression. I don't like tip toeing around a subject to be politically correct.......why pretend someone is this die hard American brother who bleeds red white and blue just like the rest of us when in fact they show little if any of that behavior each and every day???

Don't confuse hate with the unpleasant truth.

[Aragorn]

I wonder if "American Behavior" includes spitting on and beating individuals of Middle Eastern heritage.

[Salty Dog]

It sure doesn't and it is very sad. That doesn't make the things that I said untrue and IMO what drives some to the behavior you described. I am sure many Americans feel the behavior on my list is the same as being spit on every day. That doesn't make any of this right or wrong. I am just pointing out the truth because some posts were making it sound like we all skip around hand in hand with our arab "brothers" singing the national anthem. Wishful thinking.......maybe. The truth??............far from it.

[orion25]

Salty Dog,

My replies to two items on your list: These are just my opinions and not meant to be a flame of any nature.



Live in isolated groups made up of only other arabs.

What have you done to help make Arab people feel welcome in the United States. Has anyone out there befriended or made an attempt to befriend a person of Arab descent?



Wear turbins on their heads and dress like they are still in the Middle East.

This is a part of some religions. The United States was founded, in part, on the belief of freedom of religion. In effect this statement is the complete antithesis of the Constitution, morals, and beliefs that make the United States so great.


As I said these are only my opinions and are not meant to be a flame.

Sincerely,
Ryan

[reptilicus]

Just a wthought to all those who are so obsessed with people "acting American"....
I'm sure the American Indians are feeling exactly the same. Do you people speak the same language that was originally spoken in your area? Do you people dress the way Indians dress, do you make an effort to assimilate with them or do you hang out with people of "european descent". Do not discriminate on these grounds.
We have the same thing at times in Australia, people getting angry with the large number of Asian migrants because they hang out together, make no attempt to speak English and occasionally are caught up in gang violence.
Well, to those Australians who impart this view, I always reply "Do you hang out with aboriginals, do you speak their language? Do you make any attempt to speak thier language?" The answer is inevitably no.
Please make no race-induced judgements on anyone for any reason, it will only tear people apart.
Tom

[mrok12]

I take extreme exception to your claims. I am an AMERICAN. Born here of Irish/german heritage. My grandfather fought in WWII, My brother in SAUDI, I may be called upon to fight in his one. I have erved my country in the UNITED STATES ARMY AND NOW AM A MEMBER OF ITS RESERVES. As I said I take great exception to your claims.
Rapist have nothing to do with this either as stated in your last post in reply to mine. Just another sled ride down the slippery slope.
The way they dress has not a thing to do with it. How do you dress. Im sure if you were in beverly hills in anything bit original designer clothes you would be looked upon as a moron outsider. But the way you dress is your right.
So again I do not codone the actions taken by these people, whom ever they may be. But I also don't advocate the wholesale hatred of them either. This sound like another group you should know: The NAZI's. Is that what we want the world to see us as, only this time it with be the arabs not the jews. It make me ill that people are stooping to this

MROK12

[FishKid]

I wish I could find the words to describe exactly whats on my mind...

Ill give it a shot:

SaltyDog, I feel the same way you feel, Aggrevated! But I disagree with what you say! There are many many many arabs in this country, and if you spent the time to talk with them, you'd find than many are descent honest citizens!

What you are preaching is just a load of prejudice! What you said could be applied to each and every ethnic group in america! Do you wear a baseball cap when you watch your favorite team? Thats the same as wearing a turbin to listen to the words of your favorite god!

Freedom of Religion is the whole reason that America was born! But I think that there is a fine line on freedom, especially when your religion condones violence!!

If we stoop to genocide, I couldnt imagine what is next!!

So please Think before you type, dont just SH!T it out onto the boards!!!

Mark

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by mrok12
I take extreme exception to your claims. I am an AMERICAN. Born here of Irish/german heritage. My grandfather fought in WWII, My brother in SAUDI, I may be called upon to fight in his one. I have erved my country in the UNITED STATES ARMY AND NOW AM A MEMBER OF ITS RESERVES. As I said I take great exception to your claims.
The way they dress has not a thing to do with it. But I also don't advocate the wholesale hatred of them either. It make me ill that people are stooping to this

MROK12

You take extreme exception to the truth?? I have no doubt of you or your families pride or service to this wonderful land and I am very grateful for it. The way they dress has nothing to do with what?? All I said was the way they dress makes them stick out like a sore thumb EVERYWHERE......not in select areas like Beverley Hills. Did I say somewhere that I advocate the wholesale hatred of them?? I have simply pointed out they are not exactly hot dogs and apple pie wrapped in stars and bars. It also makes me ill that people are shooting at them and beating them and spitting at them but it does not mean the things that I have said are untrue.

I suggest you reread my posts because all they contain is information and fact with little if any opinion. You are taking this the wrong way. How many times do I have to type that these are not words of hatred they are simply the truth and if after knowing the truth you still feel they are your "American brothers" that is your conclusion to make.

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by FishKid
There are many many many arabs in this country, and if you spent the time to talk with them, you'd find than many are descent honest citizens!

What you are preaching is just a load of prejudice! What you said could be applied to each and every ethnic group in america! Do you wear a baseball cap when you watch your favorite team? Thats the same as wearing a turbin to listen to the words of your favorite god!

If we stoop to genocide, I couldnt imagine what is next!!

So please Think before you type, dont just SH!T it out onto the boards!!!

Mark

First of all I have said over and over that this is not how all arabs behave. One of my best friends in college was from Iran originally. A bunch of my colleages are arabs and they are fine people. I would say that you are letting your experience with a few cloud your vision of the truth. I have always said that the things I have listed are the behavior of most not all. Don't believe me take a road trip to Deerborne Michigan or anywhere around Detroit where the arab population is higher then anywhere in the country and you will see what I am talking about.

What I am preaching is predjudice??? I am not preaching anything, I am only telling you how it really is like it or not. It is not predjudice at all. Pretending that all arabs in America wake up and sing the national anthem while eating breakfast off Uncle Sam tray tables does not make it true but if that is the fairy tale you want to believe you are entitled.

Last time I checked all the Italians, Germans, Irish, Africans all had to and were paying taxes. They live mingled throughout our neighborhoods and mostly all speak English. I don't see how you say what I have described can be said about every group??

Wearing a baseball hat is the same as a turbin??? I don't even know what that means. You are really grasping at straws on this one.

Genocide?? Gees man for the 100th time I have never said that people should do anything to arabs at all. I have just pointed out they are not Uncle Sams twin brother like people were making them out to be.

I also think the comments about what have we done to make them feel welcome are total crap. Everyone at one time or another was a stranger in a strange land. Do you think Germans and Japanese people were treated very well after WWII?? It takes effort and understanding by us but also they have to want to be accepted before they ever can be.

By your name I realize you are a kid so the part about think before I type is understandable. You say that like I am just spouting opinions of hate here.............look kid I know they tell you in school that you should love everyone and it rains flower pedals on our great melting pot of a country and we all frolick through green grass under rainbows. That's great, it really is. When you grow up and see how the world really is and how hard you have to work just to get by and do your share you will understand why some people get so upset by the things I have talked about. I have not said one word of hatred and in fact spoke against it in nearly every post I have made. Don't put words in my mouth to make it sound like I am a hate filled person.

[mrok12]

This is getting us no place. You are of course entitled to your opinion as I am. What about this dres thing:
Again we don't persecute the jewish community for their dress which make some of them stick out like sore thumbs. What about orthodox jews withthe long beards and black coats and hats. What about the tattoed peirced crowd, don't they stick out?

MY POINT IS THIS: I WILL FINALLY GET TO IT.
Our nation is dealing with a very fragile trust and alliance in the middle east. We do not need to add fuel to the extremist fire by commiting hate acts against arab americans. Even if they are sympathizers to extremeist groups. This only aggrevates things. I think you need to examine this point carefully. They may be at war with one another but they have a strong bond in their faith of ISLAM. They will wage Jihad on us. It is beyond comprehension what that could mean for the whole world. Not since the crusades has their been a holy war of the magnitude I beleive we will be dealing with. We can not afford to act foolishly, passionately, and abondon common since. The world must stand behind us or we will not be victorious. There is a grave danger that this may escalate to violence unknown to any generation. The nuclear threat is very real, very real. We must be prudent in our actions salty dog and the trewatment of those who are here in our country.

MROK12

[mrok12]

Check out msnbc.com, that is if you already haven't for some interesting data on this whole thing. I respect your views even if I don't agree with all of them

MROK12

[Salty Dog]

OK OK I don't know how much clearer I can be then what I have said but here it goes again in a nutshell.

Frequent behavior of arabs in this country include

• Using loopholes in business to not pay taxes
• Living in groups of only other arabs isolated from others
• Wearing robes and turbins and not at least trying to learn our language

I AM NOT SAYING

• They should be persecuted for this
• We should hate them for this
• We should "kill em all"
• I hate them and they deserve whatever they get

I AM SAYING

• These are the reasons behind a lot of the anger directed at them
• Whether you want to believe it or not it is true
• Let's not all pretend we are some big happy Red White and Blue family just because of these attacks
• This kind of stuff does not go over well with blue collar average Joe and we are seeing the results

THAT IS ALL.

I don't know why you guys are all hung up on predjudice and hate and violence and genocide and whatever else you have said.

Man read the thread. Read it again if you still think that because you are wrong.

All the stuff I said is true. Like it or not, believe it or don't. I have simply given you the reasons why some of the hatred exists. I have not said it is right or justified. I also just tried to point out that some of us need to take a break from fantasy land and realize the way things really are. Just because you don't like something or want it to be different doesn't make it so. I don't see how denial will help this situation one bit.

READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST.

[icemark]

You know the thing that bugs me the most and I wish the boards admins would correct?:

People that delete the threads they start.

[mrok12]

Robs and turbins are a part of their religion. We don't get up tigh t about christians wearing a cross or jews wearing the star of david do we? Your facts are thin,very thin.

The tax loopholes are provided by our government, call your congressman and senator if you want to make some changes.

Hey the language thing I will agree with salty dog on, they should be required to speak english to obtain visa's tp come here. again lets all talk to our elected officials regarding this.

Anyway I will end the war with salty dog by saying: CEASE FIRE.


MROK12

[Salty Dog]

As if I didn't say this 1,000,000 times all ready. The robes and turbins are an example I used to show how they stick out like a sore thumb in a crowd. They are clearly more Middle Eastern appearing then American. You can not tell me when you see a crowd of arabs in robes and turbins speaking a foreign language that the first thing that comes to your mind is USA. You have never grasped the point I was making and I guess you never will. It has never been about being uptight or persecution or right or wrong.

Your idea that we are to blame for them not paying taxes is nothing short of laughable. Keep passing the blame onto others. What an absolute joke. I know I know people are not to blame for drunk driving deaths........it's the damn govt's fault for giving them booze and cars!! No one is at fault for shooting someone it is the people that gave them the gun right?? Lamest argument I have ever heard. Is it ever ok to blame the actual individual doing the wrongful act?

At least we agree on the language part One of the sadest things I can remember before Tuesday was when they put a microphone in the dugout of the "American" little league team in the Little League World Series and when the coach from the team with the 14 year old pitcher was speaking to his players it was in Spanish Unreal.

[mrok12]

Again my salty friend, I pay taxes, you pay taxes. This is about them taking advantage of the laws written in their favor. I don't like it anymore than you do. My federal tax bill last year was 2100.00 dollars claiming single 0 because I'm married. That sucks, but the law is not in my favor and there fore I had to pay. I wrote my congressman to let them know how I feel this law is unfair and that the marriage penalty(loophole) in favor of the government stinks. My point is it is not rught that they avoid taxation but the way the laws are currently written work in their favor. Hey for that matter the interest free buisness loans they can apply for,educational loans aren't fair either. We are paying back a 12000 dollar loan for my wifes graduate school now. I don't think it's fair, I think it is on the virge of criminal but the system is set up in their favor and they exploit it. it is up to the american people to preesure our elected officials whose vote in the house and senate could end this unilateral fovortism of foreigners who come to our country. We do agree DOG but we take a different path to arrive.

MROK12

[mrok12]

A side note, the spanish thing you mentioned makes me sick too.

MROK12

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by mrok12
We are paying back a 12000 dollar loan for my wifes graduate school now.................the system is set up in their favor and they exploit it.
MROK12

How do you think I feel......my student loan debt has six figures

I guess you choose to blame the system and I blame the people who choose to exploit it. A very important point in all this is that not all arabs do the things I have mentioned. I guess that is why I choose to hold the individuals more accountable..........the opportunity to scam your way out of taxes exists yet not all exploit it. That makes it more of a individual choice IMO.

You are from Michigan I see.............I highly doubt your arguements would fall on many welcome ears in the Detroit area. Although in fairness the word "foreign" is not the smartest topic to bring up in the home city for the American auto industry............unless you have your running shoes on.