[wgscott]

Yeah, pretty foolish on my part...

[MarkS]

Originally posted by wgscott
Yeah, pretty foolish on my part...

Who are you? That's not the wgscott we know. He is never wrong and never does anything foolish...

Mark

[ccull]

but if wg goes, i go - i'm sticking by my old saltaquarium buddy :-) even if he says stuff i disagree with, i at least respect it. wg? what's the story man!? (hope you stay) (also, i'm bright enough to know that noone on this board will give a rip if i go, so slamming me on that will be pointless)

[wgscott]

The story is that I posted it in the middle of the night after my 4 year old had an endless autistic tantrum and after finally getting him to sleep I came by for a mental health break (which I admit I clearly needed and did not get) and lost my temper.

I still don't think it is great for the owner of one board to get snippy about stuff I have posted somewhere else. I also think revoking the right to a jury trial is an exceptionally frightening thing and should be discussed. Actually, I think Ashcroft should be hanged, but that is a different topic...

Having said this I think I have been spending too much time on BB arguing with people instead of trying to help them out, so it is probably time for a reality check.

[wgscott]

OK, so let's try this again.

Originally posted by saltjunkie
i am no means an expert or even qualifed to speak on the constitution... but what is the meaning of this statement.....[fragment of Ammendment V taken out of context of the rest of the text]

Neglecting for the moment that you do here what you complained I did to your statements, the Fifth Ammendment basically says you have the right to be indicted by a Grand Jury, unless you are a member of the US military or Militia [National Guard] in time of war or public danger.

So assuming that those who will be arrested are not members of the US military or National Guard, this simply does not apply.

[quote]
Also, does our constitution cover those from a country during war time, in which with we are at war. (english sucks too?)[quote]

Yes

WG, why is it that you never approve of what your country does, for you, but yet never complain of the luxuries and life that you have here?

Sometimes I complain about the luxuries I have here, and I definitely complain about my life a lot. I also often approve of what my country does. One of the most important things that my country does is that it adheres to the US Constitution. The importance of this cannot be over-emphasized. It is essentially what sets us apart not only from countries that are autocratic, dictitorial, theocracies and worse, but even places like Britain that are essentially free, but don't have written guarantees in place that in theory make it impossible for someone to revoke your Right to a Jury Trial just because they have leapt to a conclusion about your guilt.

In other words, it is precisely because I love and care about the country that I get upset when opportunistic politicians defile a document as sacred as the US Constitution.

I could turn the question around and ask, "why do you hate your country so much that you are willing to abandon principles upon which it was founded simply because 19 fanatical morons with boxcutters hijacked airplanes and killed a lot of people? Is your belief in our system of justice really so limited that you think it is incapable of withstanding this test?

Yes some things i can agree with, our government may do and go about things politically incorrect, but are we the only?

The only what?

Have you condemned or even thought of how wrong an injustice was done to you countrymen?

Yes. So has everyone else. But I am not responsible (at least in any direct manner) for what these people did. I am responsible for what my Attorney General does. I am responsible for what the US military does in my name.

Why are we to blame for that?nothing in any way associated with my country or myself trained those men to hate my people, hijack planes and KILL thosands and thousands of people who just wanted to work, get paid, go home and live the AMERICAN DREAM.

I do not think we are to blame, at least in any direct sense. I do think however that you should examine how these people got to Afghanistan and who trained them and for what. The CIA recruited them to Afghanistan from places like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan. They built the training camps. They trained them not only to attack the Soviet invading army, but also Afghan civilian infrastructure as well as targets within the Soviet Union itself. True, we did not teach them to hate us, at least not directly. But we knew we were dealing with Islamist religious fanatics who would pursue their own agenda, which they did rather openly, including assassinating Sadat in Egypt and very likely killing the marines in Beruit.

But that dream is what prolly caused this hatred in you and those that have performed these incomprehensable (spelling thing) acts.....
Rick
I may be wrong, and I apologize now for putting words in your mouth, and possible not searching thru all the anti- american dribble that you have posted on this and any number of boards....

Forgive me for not quoting this last time. By leaving this thoughtful disclaimer out I obviously obscured your deep commitment to rational argumentation and diligent avoidance of ad hominem attacks.

[saltjunkie]

my youngness comes out! getting me with big words.
I appreciate you sticking around and suporting your statements.

The only what?

The only government that does things politically incorrect?
And thank you for setting me straight on the constitution.
And Does being an owner of this board exclude me from posting my feelings, thoughts, understandings, misunderstandings or questions, here or anywhere else. Does it exclude me from getting into debated conversations, even in which i may be wrong, or right if those are my true sincere feelings or thoughts?
Nobody has to answer these, this post isnt about me.
Wg, glad to have you back! Sincerely
Rick

[wgscott]

There is another reason to have a jury trial, quite apart from whether some scumbag deserves it or not:

If someone is arrested for some terrorist act, I would like to be sure they got the right person, not only from the point of view of protecting that person's rights, but also because if they get the wrong person, it means the terrorist is still on the loose.

So really it is in everyone's best interest to make sure the people who are arrested for these crimes are actually the ones that have committed the crimes. It is only through a spirited legal defense that is public that we can be reasonably sure this has happened.


I probably would not have over-reacted as much if "owner" did not appear under your name. If you want to attack my arguments, please go ahead. If you want to call me names and accuse me of being an anti-American traitor (ad hominem attacks), that is a different story. Like it or not, as the "owner" your opinion carries a lot more weight than most people's, and you can make people feel like unwelcome guests even if that is not the intent.

[Salty Dog]

I knew it was too good to be true

[schrocat]

GREAT SCOTT!!

good point...

welcome back.

[Reinhold]

You are the one who starts and fans the flames, then you are the one who claims he is burned. Don't keep threatening to leave if you don't intend to leave. Just hang around and do battle now and then. Everyone seems to enjoy it.

I think I'm going to leave again and never come back....

[schrocat]

Here we go again...

[Reinhold]

Okay, I'm back!!!!

[ccull]

"Salty Dog: I knew it was too good to be true " i don't guess i could say something offemsive enough to make YOU leave the board, could i? you're a pathetic moron. is that enough? lemme know, i'll be glad to insult your heritage as well if that's what it'll take. you're a rare individual indeed - you're on a list of maybe 3 people that i find truly pathetic...

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Reinhold
Okay, I'm back!!!!

Gee, and you used the same name this time.

Ninong

[Reinhold]

ccull:

I read in your profile that you describe yourself as a "lan/wan geek type person.

Pretty good description, but what do you do for a living?

It's a fish bowl board, not the Senate! Chill a little.

[Salty Dog]

Originally posted by ccull
"Salty Dog: I knew it was too good to be true " i don't guess i could say something offemsive enough to make YOU leave the board, could i? you're a pathetic moron. is that enough? lemme know, i'll be glad to insult your heritage as well if that's what it'll take. you're a rare individual indeed - you're on a list of maybe 3 people that i find truly pathetic...

No you could not.

Don't group me in with your parents.

LAN/WAN Geek Type Person= Someone who uses the internet to say things that in real life would get them punched in the face.

wg quits and comes back to reef boards more often then you change your underwear and I am pathetic

May your kidney stones be plenty

[Aragorn]

Originally posted by ccull
"Salty Dog: I knew it was too good to be true " i don't guess i could say something offemsive enough to make YOU leave the board, could i? you're a pathetic moron. is that enough? lemme know, i'll be glad to insult your heritage as well if that's what it'll take. you're a rare individual indeed - you're on a list of maybe 3 people that i find truly pathetic...

Well I'd have to say that this comment was completely "out of line" and uncalled for. May I suggest that you keep the personal attacks to a minimum? Folks may "banter" with one another here from time to time but I don't seem to recall anyone resorting to name calling. I find your post very unprofessional. Just from one LAN/WAN Geek Type Person to another.

[Salty Dog]

aragorn of course being the exception to my LAN/WAN definition

[ccull]

moron. why do you keep going back to that stupid "punch in the face" line. ok, sorry for the rhetorical question. it's cuz you're an inbred cretin. you must feel terrible about having a job that is on par with "politician" and "used car salesman", that explains your attitude. anyways, i say online what i say in person. if you're ever in texas (or i'm ever back to CA - isn't that where you live?), i'll be happy to call you a scumbag bottomdwelling hypocritical jerk-off exploiter of less fortunate people to your face . anyways, thump your chest some more, it'll make you feel better about being on par with a telemarketer in your choice of jobs. "low velocity manipulation" roflmao!! (i crack your back kinda slower than other quakopractors) please don't respond, i get all atwitter about tweaking your nose...

[ccull]

i honestly apologize to you - but saltyquack went to the ole "punch you in the mouth" line that all mentally challenged folk go to, and i just can't help myself.