TOTW 3-28-05 - Needle Wheel Skimmer - EASY!

[Horace]

I finally decided to go ahead and start building my Needle Wheel Protein Skimmer. Here is what it looks like now:

http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...achmentid=4992

I know it may not be the "Prettiest" thing out there but hey who needs it to be a gourgous piece of equipment. What I am showing you is a SUPER economical way to have a kick ass skimmer than you can build in a matter of hours! After all it is designed to remove "Poop" from your water what do you care what it looks like :P.

The only thing the skimmer is lacking is the pump assembly. I will be adding that when I get some more cash :P (Probably a Sedra 5000). The Sedra 5000 is the same pump used on the uber expensive Euro-Reef skimmers and is the heart of what makes them so good.

I got most of my ideas from the following thread if you are interested in seeing where I gathered some of my information from: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...e&pagenumber=1

although they are building a regular venturi skimmer of sorts, I am modifying it to use a needle wheel to make it even better and more efficient.
I spent aprox $15 - $20 in materials and all of them were readily available at Wal-Mart and Lowes. It took me aprox 1 - 2 hrs to get it to the point where it is now. It is nearly 100% slip fit so it can be easily adjusted and does not need to be water tight because it will be in my sump, although I will probably make it water tight once it is fully dialed in.

I am also not decided as to what type of venturi I am going to use. Some pumps come with a venturi already but normaly that are not very effective. So to add some efficency I may make a DIY venturi as well. Randy's/Don W's venturi design looks sweet but I lack the lathe (Hundreds?) and bit ($31) they used to create it. I could probably do Randy's design using a regular drill press or a hand held if I am careful.

(UPDATE 03/21/2005) After looking into this, it does not seem very economical to use the method below to create the Randy/DonW's Venturi if you dont already have the tools. I am currently thinking of how I could make one similar with the basic tools around the house. I think I have some ideas already that will work! MORE TO COME ON THIS LATER :P

Here is the link to Randy's DIY Venturi thread :
Best DIY Venturi

If you have access to acrylic rod you may want to try Don W's method of making the Venturi. Here is the link to that thread :
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/...hlight=venturi

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The parts list is as follows:
---------------------------
1 - 1gal Rubbermade container (avail at Wal-Mart)
1 - 2qt Rubbermade container (avail at Wal-Mart)
2 - 4" female PVC adapters
1 - 4" to 2" reducing bushing
1 - 6" length of 2" PVC
1 - 6" length of 3/4" PVC (water out from chamber)
1 - ~10" length of 3/4" PVC (water out from chamber)
1 - 3/4" elbow
2 - 6" lengths of 1/2" PVC (water in from pump, not shown yet)
----------------------------

Here are the pictures of the parts and assembly. Again it does not have the pump assembly or the venturi but other than that it is ready to rock. This skimmer stands aprox 22" high and is about 8" wide (no stand atm or the footprint would be bout 10" X 10").

Here are some pictures:

Jugs from Wal-Mart
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4983&stc=1

4" female adapters

http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4984&stc=1


Here is a picture of the 4" to 2" reducer bushing. I had to cut the lip off of it with a jig saw, this could have been done with a lathe but the jig saw worked pretty good as well. I took 2 laps around it, once to cut the main lip off and again to get what was left over. I then did a bit of sanding to smooth it down. Took maybe 20 mins to do total.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4986&stc=1

Here is what it looked like after sanding:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4988&stc=1

Here is the bushing inserted 1/2" into a female adapter (NOT ALL THE WAY IN!):
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4985&stc=1

[Horace]

More pictures:

I glued one end (the end with that tapers down to the 2". The bottom side of the picture above) about 1/2" into one of the female adapters, and the other part of it will slip fit into the other female adapter so it can be easily removed to empty the collection cup. The whole upper section is removed to empty the cup, obviously unscrewing the top canister would just dump the skimmate all over.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4989&stc=1


Here is a picture of the two female pieces joined, but not pressed fully togeather so you can see the bushing is holding them togeather.
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4990&stc=1

Here they are togeather:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4991&stc=1

The 6" tube is inserted in the 2" opening in the above picture (though it is inserted from the bottom side, the side you see with the cone shape inside is attached to the 1gal jug where the foam from the reaction chamber is directed in an upwards manner into the 2" pipe.

Here is the whole thing assembled to the point that I have it now:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/attach...tid=4992&stc=1


Thats what I got so far :P I hope to get a pump ordered soon so I can plumb the water inlet and test this baby out :P. It should be able to handle upwards of 125 - 150 gal easily.

[orion25]

Thanks for the help and instructions! When I move I will be revisiting this thread for sure! By then I will have the room to design what I want!

[scubadude]

Cant wait to see this thing in operation. What pump are you gonna use on this skimmer? Also I cant seem to figure out the PVC that goes into the jar...how did you seal it? Are you using uni-seals?

[Horace]

What pump are you gonna use on this skimmer?

I plan on useing a Sedra 5000 with the needle wheel impeller. They DO sell it without it so I am making sure to get the one that has it included. It runs alomost $90 though.

I cant seem to figure out the PVC that goes into the jar...how did you seal it? Are you using uni-seals?

At the moment nothing is sealed. I was thinking of using Uniseals though for the in/out water. The jars that screw into the PVC could probably be made water tight by just using some teflon tape or a bit of silicone around the threads..The jars screw in pretty tight so it wont leak much if any at all as it is. I also plan on putting a drain in the collection cup area so large amounts of skimmate dont sit in there for long periods of time. Other than that there will only be 2 places it could really leak from, the inlet and the outlet. Both could be made water tight by use of a uniseal or some silicone. Right now it is just a very tight fit as I cut the hole just big enough to be able to squeeze the outlet pipe in there. I am not really concerned with it dripping a tad, its going to be sitting my sump anyway.

[Horace]

Cant wait to see this thing in operation. What pump are you gonna use on this skimmer? Also I cant seem to figure out the PVC that goes into the jar...how did you seal it? Are you using uni-seals?

Now I think I might go for the GenX 2400 pump with needle wheel and the venturi included. At http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...S-PCGX-2400-NW

The pump is $39 and is just the right size at about 650gph. So when all is said and done for about $65 I should have a working skimmer. Im stoked :P

[Horace]

Well I decided to go with the Gen X 2400 650 GPH needle wheel pump. For $50 with shipping I figured it was a pretty good deal. As soon as I get it I will set up the skimmer and get it tested. I should have it by this Friday (Apr 1). I currently dont have a tank to test it on so I guess I will put some frozen shrimp into my sump for a few days before I get the pump. That should make for some good skimming :P.

More pictures to come as soon as the pump arrives! CANT WAIT :P

[orion25]

More pictures to come as soon as the pump arrives! CANT WAIT :P

We can't wait either. Please keep us updated!

[Horace]

Well I got the pump in today. Pump is a bit larger than I had imagined them looking :P. I have never actually seen one of them in person lol. Anyway the GEN X 2400 is here. It does have the needle wheel impeller (similar or same as the turboflator 1000). The only hang up is the fact that the "air inductor" otherwise known as the venturi is not the design I wish to use. This one has an insert that goes in the inlet and the air inlet is horizontal to the water intake (ill show you a pic) rather than perpendicular. Now this wouldnt normally be a problem except for the fact that I want to make a recirculating skimmer, not just a Euro-Reef type. It will more closely be using the Deltec design. Here is a picture of the pump with the "air inductor" on it and you will see why this will not work




Here is a picture of a Deltec skimmer, notice the location of the air induction tube:

[Peterock]

What size tank will this skimmer that you made work for? and is there anyway to make your skimmer in a smaller size I have a 45 gal and I like the design and want to build one myself but I have limited room max height I can make one is around 18 inches or so..

[Horace]

What size tank will this skimmer that you made work for? and is there anyway to make your skimmer in a smaller size I have a 45 gal and I like the design and want to build one myself but I have limited room max height I can make one is around 18 inches or so..

Well to be honest I cant really give you any exact figures, but if I was to wager on the safe side I would say mine should be good for up to about 125 gal or so. As for making it smaller...Well I am not really sure how well it would work. What you may be able to do is make the top portion smaller by not using the quart size collection cup and instead neck the thing down a bit sooner. For instance instead of using Two female adaptors try and only use one, and then use something else to neck it down for a smaller/shorter collection cup. Personally I think mine is a bit large but it was alot easier to use it and I have a few spare inches as it is. I would start with the bottom half of what I have and see what you can do from there. If you follow the link at the top of this post, you may find a slightly different design that will work better for you. But leaving the bottom portion as it is will probably be your best idea because that and your pump essentially determines the capacity of your skimmer. If you made that a quart size as well I really dont know how well that will work. You would need a fairly weak pump because mine at 625gph is almost perfect at full blast. I would guess about 400gph pump would be better for a smaller chamber because it would likely blow the water right out the riser otherwise. Hope that helps

[Horace]

Hey guys I got it put togeather (did a euro-reef style instead of Deltec though). The Deltec design is a bit hard to pull off on this skimmer because of the pump size in relation to the reaction chamber. I may still try and pull it off, but using some flexable hose instead of the hard PVC. To use PVC I would need like 4 elbows and they reduce the flow ALOT.

The trickiest part about the whole thing was getting the venturi to work like I wanted. It is a very fine line between getting enough air and too much. If you get too much your bubbles start getting too large for good skimming. If you get way too much your pump will cavitate. If you get too little you wont get as many bubbles and your water will rise higher in the riser tube. So you have to get it just right for it to work.

believe it or not I dont even have a venturi at all really. All I did was get a 1" to 3/4" screw in adaptor for the Inlet of the pump (the pump inlet is 1"). I had to get this because the biggest inlet adaptor the pump comes with is a 1/2" which I thought was a bit small. So now that I got the screw in adapter I can now hook up 3/4" pvc directly to the pump inlet. The adapters they give you are for a hose, not pvc. So for the "venturi" I simply cut a 2.5" - 3" piece of 3/4" pvc and put a hole in it about half way down. I stuck a peice of plastic hose in that hole so it was flush with the inside wall of the pvc (it was a nice snug fit). Just simply the water passing through the pvc created plenty of suction to pull in enough air to keep the balance almost perfect. I had tried Don W's venturi design but frankly that thing works way too good. Is sucks in sooooo much air it makes the pump cavitate. I kept drilling the center out more and more but it was still too much air. Event ually I tried just a normal pipe with no narrowing of the inside and it works like gravy now....This may not hold true pending on the pump you use but it works well for the GenX 2400.

[Randy]

In my opinion a quality crafted Venturi is not necessary when it will be placed on the input of a pump - especially with a needle wheel. The pump alone provides plenty of suction to draw in too much air.

On the output however on a "Venturi driven skimmer" a quality crafted Venturi is beneficial for maximum performance in order to create the smallest bubbles, plenty of them, without restricting the pump as much as possible. Every aspect of a Venturi can be optimized in order to do this.

Those step drill bits are actually cheapest at Harbor Freight by the way.

Anyway the easiest, least bulky inlet Venturi I've been able to come up with is like this:






It's actually the cheapest, easiest, and quickest part of building a skimmer.

[Randy]

If you ever have a chance would it be too much trouble to show a pic of the needle impeller for your GenX 2400 pump? I’m very interested.

I've found the pump at the link you listed, but have yet to find a pic of the impeller. I don't know why, maybe they just don't want us to see it.

I'm sick of paying for overpriced pumps and needle wheel impeller. This GenX 2400 looks like the way to go. Good find by the way.

[Horace]

If you ever have a chance would it be too much trouble to show a pic of the needle impeller for your GenX 2400 pump? I’m very interested.

I've found the pump at the link you listed, but have yet to find a pic of the impeller. I don't know why, maybe they just don't want us to see it.

I'm sick of paying for overpriced pumps and needle wheel impeller. This GenX 2400 looks like the way to go. Good find by the way.

This is a SIMILAR impeller. I would show you mine but im not about to tear my skimmer down to show you it :P. The Gen-x impellers have some horizontal nubs on those pegs as well, but they look pretty darn close.

[Horace]

BTW I completely changed my design of my skimmer and its been working great for probably 8 months now. I pull some SERIOUS amount of skimmate with it. If there is any interest I could repost some of the pictures. The skimmer is now all PVC rather than those cheap plastic containers from Wal-Mart. The Gen-x pump is a GREAT pump except one problem. You HAVE to take the back off and put silicone over the metal or it will rust there. Mine started to rust but I covered it with GE type I silicone and its fine now. Other than that I think they perform excellent.

[Randy]

Sounds like the cat's ass ... I'll use em. I saw these pumps online before, posted a question regarding them on RC and never got a reasonable response.

I know of some excellent coatings that will work, this pump will do the trick. Thanks for the pic!

[Randy]

Horace, I have had my GX-2400 for a couple weeks or so and it works quite well. I bought mine from Custom Aquatics. It came with an excellent venturi (similar if not identical to the one Euro-R uses) and the type that you showed in your previous link. I definitely ditched that type that looks like a cap. Anyway it works very nice.

Horace, do you get many micro-bubbles passing through your skimmer? I have had my skimmer shoot out a bit of bubble out of it, but it has been running in a tote all by itself in the same water for weeks (that could be why). It is a different design than yours but most skimmers are similar when it comes to the inlet/outlet placement and functionality.

[Horace]

No I dont have a problem with micro bubbles. Though mine is in a sump behind a set of baffles so I dont know for sure. I am sure I probably do get some bubbles though, most skimmers do cause them, you just have to deal with them some how. thankfully my setup seems to weed them out very well and my main is pretty much micro bubble free.

[draleigh]

I tried this DIY and I was pretty impressed with how simple and cheap it was - and it works. I have pics on my webpage of it in action.
I don't have my tank up and running yet - but i set this up in the sump where i have some live rock and within a few minutes i had a nice wet goo of bubbles and after a couple days just a good bubble foam. I have a crappy pump that i am going to modify and make a mesh wheel impreller out of it and see if that works better - otherwhise i a plan on trying the Gex-X pump
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