[linuxguru]

Is their some kind of unwritten rule on how baffles should be placed when building a sump? The number of them , where they are placed. Should water flow under the first one or over, wht is the height parameters.

[Reefland]

Hi linuxguru,

There are no "written rules" but some generalities that will help. The baffles should be placed just before the return pump in the sump. If you are using an internal return pump, the first baffle (actually last baffle following the water flow) should be placed to make a compartment for the return pump that is a bit larger. If your using an external pump, a 6-8" sized compartment should be fine.

Typically people use 3 baffles in a series of over-under-over. The first baffle should be glued to the bottom of the tank and should be the height that you want to water level to operate at in the sump. When determining the height, be sure to account for display drainage in the event of a power outage. The second baffle should be 1.5-2" from the bottom of the sump and should be high enough to be taller than the first baffle. The last baffle will be glued to the bottom and will be .5-1" shorter than the first.

[linuxguru]

Right on Scott!

This has been the best description I have heard to date believe it or not........so short and so much sense.

When you say 3 baffles, are these baffles placed right after the intake/protein skimmer and again right before the return pump, all of them exactly as you described. Leaving the middle as the refuge if I am not mistaken. Also how much spacing between each baffle?

[Poseidon]

I use about 2" between each baffle. And I also used 2 sets of baffles, but on my next sump they will only be on the output side, but I am going to add an "under" first, then the rest exactly as Scott described. By creating that last chamber you can prevent your return pump from flooding the main tank by only allowing "so-much" to be pumped into the display.

[linuxguru]

Hey Poiseidon,

So you are saying you will only use one set of baffles (3 pieces) only on the end next to the return pump? Why wouldnt you just keep the set on the other side, does it not help? Also, very interesting on allowing only so much water to be pumped to the tank. but how does one accomplish this?

[Poseidon]

I will have a total of 4 baffles, under, over, under, over. The last "over" creates a seperate chamber that will only hold X amount of water, that is the amount of water that can be pumped. THe rest of the water in the sump is held in place by that last over. Lets say you set that last over to be 12" tall from the bottom of the sump and it is sealed on 3 sides. The only water that will reach the pump is the water that flows OVER the top of it. So your operating height of the sump may be 13-14" from the bottom of the sump. So lets say one day your overflow gets clogged with a dead fish, the water leaving your tank and going to the sump will stop, but the water coming from the sump to the tank will not. With this last chamber, only the water that can flow Over will make it bac to the tank. In this example that would be that 1" of water... That amount of water is not enough to flood your display....

[Reefland]

Here's a down and dirty diagram I just put together that I hope will help you out.

[Horace]

Here is a link to a pretty common Sump/Refugium design http://www.sjpdesigns.com/NewReef/sumphowto.htm . Though one very important thing to keep in mind is that you want to be skimming RAW drain water from the surface of your tank. You want your skimmer to be taking water from the top most layer of water in your sump and the compartment the drain empties into should be as small as possible to accomidate your skimmer. The optimal thing is to feed your skimmer directly from your drain. Because protiens will rise to the surface of your sump (much like they do in your tank). This was all explained in a very very long post on RC but I figured I would sum it up quickly for you. This will greatly improve skimming performance I am told.

[Reefland]

Good points Horace, but a lot of times this is difficult to accomplish. The water being drained to the sump is surface water (as long as an appropriate surface skimmer is being used) and this is about the best we can do with most of todays popular skimmers which need to be fed by pressure rated pumps. Keeping enough flow and turbulence in the sump should keep protiens from building on the surface and therefore the skimmer is being fed with water that contains the most protiens from the display, hence my responce about "the best we can do".

Very good points though and definitely the best way if you can figure a way to accomplish it.

[Poseidon]

How about feeding the skimmer direct from the overflow after a 13-14ft DROP!!! Like if I can put a sump in my basement!! THats about the only way I can think of to get good velocity and enough bubbles to accomplish a direct feed...Otherwise it is surface overflow to pump to skimmer...

[Horace]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

How about feeding the skimmer direct from the overflow after a 13-14ft DROP!!! Like if I can put a sump in my basement!! THats about the only way I can think of to get good velocity and enough bubbles to accomplish a direct feed...Otherwise it is surface overflow to pump to skimmer...

Hehehe I didnt mean that you should gravity feed your skimmer per say. All I am saying is that you should try to get as much water directly from the drain into the skimmer the best possible way you can. This can be accomplished in a few ways. The first is by making the skimmer compartment as small as possible...another thing you can do is make the inlet to your skimmer a flexable hose and attach that to a float. Then the inlet to the pump is sucking from the surface of the raw drain water compartment. This combo could help big time.. or so I am told :P.

I am being told that just haveing a skimmer in an open sump has a significant negative effect on your skimming performance, and the things I have suggested should be strongly considered if your designing a new sump :P. Hope this helps...

[NoSump]

This is a very helpful thread - as I am currently debating the merits of purchasing a comparitively expensive predesigned sump, or going the DIY route.

One questions concerns the materials used for the baffles. Do you use cut glass or acrylic? I assume that they are attached with standard acquarium sealant?

Also, there is a seller on Ebay that offers a "sump kit", with plans and pre-cut baffles for various size tanks. Is it worth it to buy a kit, or is it so easy, that it is advisable to just cut your own baffles?

Last question, what is the function of the baffles?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Reefland]

Chuck,

You could use either glass or acrylic for the baffles or partitions for the sump. Most people use acrylic because it's easy to acquire and much easier to work with over glass. Cutting acrylic can be down with a fine tootch blade in a Skil saw or even by scoring with a razor knife. Once cut, aquarium silicone can be used to secure them.

The function of the baffles is to partition different sections for the sump and the series of them before the return is to help diffuse tiny bubbles that make their way into the sump from the drain. Without these baffles the bubbles are sent through the return pump and cause an eyesore in the display.

[Horace]

Originally Posted by Reefland

Chuck,

You could use either glass or acrylic for the baffles or partitions for the sump. Most people use acrylic because it's easy to acquire and much easier to work with over glass. Cutting acrylic can be down with a fine tootch blade in a Skil saw or even by scoring with a razor knife. Once cut, aquarium silicone can be used to secure them.

The function of the baffles is to partition different sections for the sump and the series of them before the return is to help diffuse tiny bubbles that make their way into the sump from the drain. Without these baffles the bubbles are sent through the return pump and cause an eyesore in the display.

I would also like to note they are used to form a "Refugium" which is an area that often contains live sand or "mud" and macro algae that aids in reducing the nitrates in your water (a natural form of protein skimming).

[Rook]

Just to add a question that I could not understand from that RC thread. Do you need to baffle prior to the skimmer? If the crashing water from the drain pipe creates a lot of bubbles, does it matter if these bubbles get to the skimmer section? Does it make a difference to my question is this is a basement sump, i.e. even more crashing bubbles?

[Reefland]

No having bubbles in the section that houses the skimmer is not a problem. Most people try to put the skimmer in a partitioned area that has a controlled water level so once the skimmer is adjusted your done. I would recommend this.

[Poseidon]

I really like having my skimmer EXTERNAL.. That way I don't have to stand on my head to get out the collection cup. Right now my skimmer is on a shelf next to the tank. The skimmer feed pump is in the first section of my sump where the air/water is pretty turbulent, so maybe I do get some air mixed in the skimmer feed pump before it even gets to teh skimmer. I doubt that makes a significant difference sine they are in the tube for less then a second!!!

[Samper]

At first I was going to go with 2 seperate sets of baffles, one set right after the skimmer the other set right before the return pump....I've been using that Euro Reef 8-2 to cure 30lbs of rubble and I don't think I need that many baffles. Very little microbubbles escaping if any and provided my sump is long enough I think I could get away with only one baffle to control the water level. If I can get away with a simple design like that, is there still a reason to maybe complicate it a bit? I've seen some very complicated sumps equipped with raceways, and chambers galore that almost looked like a maze or something. I didn't understand why someone would need all of that.