[newbie]

OK I am looking to get ideas from as many people as possible. I located a company that is doing this, but the unit range from 1K up to 3K. I want to do it on a DIY budget. Anyone seen one of these things and know anything about them? How much flow should I send through it to work?

[scubadude]

Hi newbie

Is this what you are talking about?

MORE

If so then all it sounds like to me is a RO/DI unit, and maybe a ozonizer, and UV sterilizer with a controller. I didnt read alot of the article, I stopped when it said it was ideal for the busy reefer.....Basically someone who doesnt have time for a reef tank....reef tanks take time IMO no matter what! I might try reading more of it later though.

[newbie]

Yes, that is what I am talking about. I do not look at it that way, I like taking care of my reef, I do not like to constant water changes of a 200 gallon system. All I want to do is find a system that I can put in place to "clean" the water. Kinda like a protein skimmer removes the protien. Seavision did not list a UV sterilizer or an ozonizer. DialySeas But that aside, 3K? I think I can DIY something for alot less.

[reefaquatics]

I agree, if you are too busy..then you shouldnt be in this hobby, or be like
all the doctors offices and rich people do and Hire a service to take of your
tank...lol

Seriously though...there is no way around doing maintance. I read the article,
the machine sounds interesting, but not worth the money. It would probably
work good for a Freshwater tank. But from what I read...there is No way
that it work for a Saltwater setup. Supposedly the website says it will mix
the salt. But would you trust the machine?? Plus its good practice to let your
saltwater age for a few days in a reserve container with powerheads...before
doing your water change. To me it just looks like another piece of equipment
you will have to do maintance on. When you could just save your money and
do your own water changes.

As far as a DYI, well unless you can invent some machine that on its own can
RO filter the water into a Container,add salt mix, measure the salt mix, age the
mix, and then do the water change, dose your suppliments,replace your filter
pads, and clean your pumps and powerheads..and then clean and do maintance
on itself...lol...

MY question is what is constant water changes? once a week, once a month???
On a 200 gal tank, you should be able to get away with a water change once
every couple of weeks. Although I do smaller ones once a week. You
have to remember..in the ocean..the reef is getting a 100% water change
everyday.

The water in my tank crystal clear,with 0 nitrates,0 nitrites,0 phosphate,
490 calcium, 9 to 11 DKH. I use 12 stage filtered RO/DI water that is also
ran through a UV. I do small water changes onces a week, change all the
filter pads once a week,clean the pumps, powerheads every 2 weeks. I also
fully clean my Protein skimmer every 3 weeks. I also have a Refugium with
Caulapera algea on a 24 hr light cycle. Plus a bag of Chemi-Pure Elite.

good luck...

[newbie]

I am not saying I am too busy, and my water changes are every 2 weeks 40 plus gallons. I have a 50 gallon rubbermaid tub that I transfer water into to make up salt. I have a 44 and 32 gallon rubbermaid trash cans that I use to collect my ro/di water into. As for dosing, I have a calcium reactor to keep it in check and my #'s are very close to yours since I do water changes. I am not looking to wipe out having to maintain the system, just reduce the water changing. As for money, I am hoping to be able to build one for under 200 and not 3000.

[reefaquatics]

Dont get me wrong, I dig technology and I like seeing all the cool
new equipment that comes out and plus the DIY stuff people come
up with...

So basicly what you are trying to build is a better Filtration system.
Not an automatic water changing machine..which will never happen..

Like I said in the other post...you have to realize that in the Ocean the
Reef gets a 100% water change every day. Any experienced person in
this hobby will tell you its just good practice to do weekly water changes.

Instead of doing a 40 gal change every two weeks...Do smaller ones once
a week. You will never avoid water changes...its a part of keeping a good
system.

Just my point of view...good luck

[DonW]

Originally Posted by newbie

I am not saying I am too busy, and my water changes are every 2 weeks 40 plus gallons. I have a 50 gallon rubbermaid tub that I transfer water into to make up salt. I have a 44 and 32 gallon rubbermaid trash cans that I use to collect my ro/di water into. As for dosing, I have a calcium reactor to keep it in check and my #'s are very close to yours since I do water changes. I am not looking to wipe out having to maintain the system, just reduce the water changing. As for money, I am hoping to be able to build one for under 200 and not 3000.

I'm finished experimenting with my diy. Although it did work very well it cost much more than $200 closer to $1800. They do work and do work very well and the salt mixing part is simple BUT it waste salt. Overall I'd say it wasnt worth it. I think your much better off going with some sort of continuous water change system rather than dialisys.

Don

[newbie]

Don where did you get your dialyzer and how much was it? As for the cost, I have a controller that will do what I am looking to do for less then 100.00. Right now I want to concentrate on just getting it to flow through the dialyzer. I am not too worried about all the extras just yet. I though am having a HARD time finding the filter.

[DonW]

Originally Posted by newbie

Don where did you get your dialyzer and how much was it? As for the cost, I have a controller that will do what I am looking to do for less then 100.00. Right now I want to concentrate on just getting it to flow through the dialyzer. I am not too worried about all the extras just yet. I though am having a HARD time finding the filter.

My old man is the majority owner of us cell and tissue along with cos of the shriners so medical supplies come from him. You can get them from dailyseas.
The pressure rated peristaltic pumps alone are quite expensive and you will need at least two for the membrane one for clean and the other for brine mecomatics are what I have. Once the water leaves the membrane it will be low in salinity and pretty much everything else. You then have to flow that over salt that has no ca or it will just be a precip rock. then you have to add the ca back. And before you can do anything the water has to be prefiltered down to about 5 micron but preferably 1 micron before the membrane. Then you need to build custom float switches that float at least 3 different specific gravities so you can control the sg. A probe is going to foul and will not be accurate for more than a few days. You will also need a rodi with absoultly 0 tds but should be using a conductivity to make sure the water is truely pure or the membrane will not function and will just quickly foul. A regular off the shelf rodi system is not going to cut it unless your incomming tds is less than about 20.

Before jumping in with both feet make sure you are very clear how dialisys functions. If not you will just be flushing money.

Don

[newbie]

Originally Posted by DonW

My old man is the majority owner of us cell and tissue along with cos of the shriners so medical supplies come from him. You can get them from dailyseas.
The pressure rated peristaltic pumps alone are quite expensive and you will need at least two for the membrane one for clean and the other for brine mecomatics are what I have. Once the water leaves the membrane it will be low in salinity and pretty much everything else. You then have to flow that over salt that has no ca or it will just be a precip rock. then you have to add the ca back. And before you can do anything the water has to be prefiltered down to about 5 micron but preferably 1 micron before the membrane. Then you need to build custom float switches that float at least 3 different specific gravities so you can control the sg. A probe is going to foul and will not be accurate for more than a few days. You will also need a rodi with absoultly 0 tds but should be using a conductivity to make sure the water is truely pure or the membrane will not function and will just quickly foul. A regular off the shelf rodi system is not going to cut it unless your incomming tds is less than about 20.

Before jumping in with both feet make sure you are very clear how dialisys functions. If not you will just be flushing money.

Don

Thank You,
Yes I know who the dialysis works, and I have an entire BioMedical department here at the Hospital I work at for additional help.

As for the peristaltic pumps, I already have a line on a 2-3 stage pressure rated pump @ 24v, a 24v controller, and my salt is custom made by a local reefer starting his own business. As for my ro/di unit, it is the same unit they use here to make the dialysate. This is going to be a test at which he and I will test to affluent water to see exactly how to mix our salt. It will also not be a solid form when we add it back to the aquarium. We intend to have a saturated solution that we will inject back into the system. We are also not looking to hit the high end on the first outing. We are looking to start with the filtering first, then add to it. Our controller is capable of 16 different input/outputs.

Thank you for your input, it does add to what we have already found out, and gives us another resource.

[DonW]

Salt is no big deal as long as it has no calcium. The calcium has to be added back to the sytem after the brine has been brought back down to 35ppt.

The SG is going to change so it has to be controlled. The membrane is not going to remove exactly the same amount all the time. If you prefilter low enough > 5 micron you can pretty much expect to run 5 gallons per day for 30 days per membrane then the membranes will have to be replaced. The numbers work out to about $150 per month to process 5G per day assuming you can get membranes bulk at less than $80. Most sell for about $100 and this also assumes that the rodi has low incomming tds >30. All in all the cost is almost 4 times what a regular water changer would cost not counting machine failures.

Don

[newbie]

Gotcha.