Auto top-off

[minireefn]

Hey gang! I just joined. I'm just starting a Bio Cube 29g reef tank. I use to have a 150g reef tank about three years ago but sold it due to moving. Saw this mini aquarium on display with corals and fish in it at the LFS and the addiction got the best of me. Anyway, I am already at it with making changes and improvements and I don't even have corals or fish in it yet...just live sand and rock. Here is my question for anyone at there...Any ideas on an auto top off system. Prefere to be a float valve that will fit under the Bio Cube canopy. Kent float valve I think is too long and doesn't come with a clamp (I don't want to drill a hole if I can get away from that). ANY SUGGESTIONS??

[DonW]

I don't think your going to find a float valve that is going to work under your canopy. A dual float switch ATO is going to be more suited to a display ATO.

Don

[minireefn]

DonW, that's pretty much what I've discovered. I was trying to think of a way to get a smaller float than the Kent, but have not found one. I could drill a hole through the top devider plate between the wet/dry chamber and tank next to the inlet nossle, but that would be risky since I already have my tank running. It would be possible to use the 7" Kent float if there was a clamp I could use to attach it to the top.
My tank is only 3 days old now. I'm using well water from the tap. I had the water tested first and was very clean (pure). No metals, chlorine, nitrite, and pH is 7.8. I put live sand about three inches deep an live rock in on day 2. Checked my parameters today and they are: Temp 79, salinity 1.022, pH 8.0, dKH 12, Ca++ 400. No Ammonia, Nitrite or Phos. I added the Protein skimmer designed specificaly for the Oceanic BioCube 29g. I added better filter media from Fluval (the white coarse octagon shaped with hole in middle and have it in a nylone bag lying on top of the plasic bio balls).
What do you think of my water results?
Do you thinks it's okay to start adding corals, inverts, and starter fish (chromis/damsals)?

Thanks for your advise!
Ken

[DonW]

I think your a long ways off before you can start adding inverts. I'm an old skool reefer and would wait 6 months or so. JMO

Float valves are going to be an issue with well water. I would stray away from that idea and go with float switches.

Don

[minireefn]

Yes I should know better. Inverts need to eat too. I will look more into the ATO swiches. I have another question that I am a little confused about. Today my wife went to get some starter fish (two chromis and two damsals). She was going to get a couple soft corals too, but the lady said to wait unti our tank has completely cylced. The same lady that sold us on the idea of buying live sand so the tank would essentially be ready right off the get go. I thought since we added live sand and pre-cured live rock, added nitrifying benificial bacteria and the tank parameters look good then why wait? What cycle period and when would I know a cycle period had completed to then add corals?
Thanks!
Ken

[DonW]

Yes I should know better. Inverts need to eat too. I will look more into the ATO swiches. I have another question that I am a little confused about. Today my wife went to get some starter fish (two chromis and two damsals). She was going to get a couple soft corals too, but the lady said to wait unti our tank has completely cylced. The same lady that sold us on the idea of buying live sand so the tank would essentially be ready right off the get go. I thought since we added live sand and pre-cured live rock, added nitrifying benificial bacteria and the tank parameters look good then why wait? What cycle period and when would I know a cycle period had completed to then add corals?
Thanks!
Ken

Well you were "sold". Fairly typical, but all that is not going to stop the tank from cycling. Did you happen to buy some test kits? Nitrites, Ammonia and Nitrate kits are really a help in determining when your cycling and when your finished.
I would get the damsels out now while the tank is still empty, they are evil. The two chromis can stay but there is a good chance you might loose them during the cycle.

Don

[minireefn]

As I mentioned in previous post, I did check my water parameters. I use Salifert test kits. My results are all good! No Ammonia, Nitrite-Nitrates or Phosphates. pH is 8.0, dKH is at 12, Calcium is at 400. So if these are my water conditions then isn't it safe to add corals? What harm are the Damsals? I am taking a whole new approach to this than when I did with my 150gal tank I had three years ago when I had to let the tank cycle because I didn't start out with live sand. I had to cure my rock in a bucket until no Amnomia was detected before putting into tank. I then let my tank run for one week before adding corals and fish and never encounter any problem.

[DonW]

Damsels are evil little monsters the will pester your other fish when you get them to death.

Don

[minireefn]

I have had the same kind before (Blue yellow tails) and they had not been a problem. I will keep a close eye on them...rather the one I now have as the other one died. Thanks for the heads up! Oh and, I just spoke to a guy that has been doing reef tanks now for over 20 years and this is what he said about my new Bio Cube 29g tank. It has been his experience that these tanks do failry well so long as you keep a consistant maintanence regimen. He has seen good results with gradual adding of corals in these "all in one set up" kinds of tanks that have been started with live sand, rock, benificial bacteria, and safe water parameters. He said it's best to start with a few fish and then recheck water for amnonia after one week. I may be surprised to find little if any amnonia and that is why experience has proven it to be okay with adding corals slowly at a time.
Just thought I would share that with and you and anyone else that might read this.

[Poseidon]

You don't have any NH3 yet because the system is new, it will show up once you add "life". How much will show up is the variable, because you used "cured" rock, you should only have a small cycle, but there will be one none the less.

Take your time with this, you will be rewarded for patience and punished for rushing.... (Hair Algae, cyano outbreaks, valonia, aiptasia, parasites... (Not trying to be an Ar$$, but this hobby really requires the slow and steady approach.))

[minireefn]

I fully respect the importance of being patient. Going about differently this time, "all-in-one-system", using live sand/rock and nitrifying bacteria, just seemed it would all go much faster than when it did five years ago. At that time I started with a custom built 150 gal tank, cabnet and canopy, cured my own live rock, used dry sand bed and waited 9 weeks before starting to add fish and corals. I gues I've forgotten some of the cycling it went through then.

[DonW]

Alot of people seem to be moving faster now days. Its alot nicer being able to buy cure LR at the LFS and not have it sit in tubs for weeks at a time. We can get "live sand" in a bag and of course bacteria in a bottle.
What has not changed and will never changed is the denitrification cycle and the need for bacteria to stabilize.
On the whole bottled bactera thing I could see where this would be helpful if you had a display with all dead dry rock and dry sand. LR is concidered live rock not only for the small life forms that dwell with-in but for the nitrifying and denitrifing bacteria. The bacteria that came with the rock could never be the same strain that came in the bottle. This means the different strains are going to battle causing a bacterial die off. As mentioned by Poseiden is going to cause problems.
Live sand in a bag is fine I guess if there was a way for the "live" to be fed and have access to 02. Pretty hard in a waterproof sealed plastic bag. Since the "live is not cared for on the store shelf chances are better that the "live" is now dead thus making it not useful but more of a problem cause than anything else. Once that dead material has leaves the bag to go into your tank it then has a good supply of oxygen to fuel the breakdown process.
Technology is great and the ability to get what we need is also great but it comes at a price. Understanding the drawbacks and not using the new resourses as a short cut will yield you a much happier healthier tank in the long run.
There is one shortcut that Samper got me started doing is to spur the ammonia by simply peeing in the tank. This sound gross but a cup of pee does a great job of strating the cycle without the use problematic fish.

Don