DIY Sump Design

[mike007]

Hey, I'm looking to make a sump for my 90 gal tank but I don't have much room under my stand. I ordered a SWC Xtreme 200 Skimmer and its footprint is 14" X 9". so it has to fit that one one side and my refugium on the other. My problem is that I don't have much room as far as width or length inside of my stand. I want the skimmer to fit taking up the least amount of space possible (meaning the 14" being witdth in the sump and the 9" taking up the length). I only have 30" to 36" of room to work with and i would like the sump design to be Skimmer --> Return <-- Refugium. I want to fit the skimmer with the 9" taking up length to save as much space as possible for the Refugium. The baffles will be 1" apart unless anyone thinks they should be different. I plan on having a high flow pump like maybe a Mag 24 (maybe a little less). So I would need my baffles to be able to handle that. I need suggestions on how to go about making the actual sump and what to use. Glass or Acrylic? what's easier for a newbie? what will last longest? Which will be cheaper? I also would like to know if it would be possible to fit 36" lengthwise into the stand if the opening is only 30"? I've brainstormed forever now and I can't come up with anything more. ANY help is greatly appreciated and if anyone needs anymore info, ill do my best to provide pics or some other (shi**y) sketches.

Thanks in advance

[ToddTT]

Not sure you want high flow in your sump.

Have you visited here yet?

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

[mike007]

Not sure you want high flow in your sump.

Have you visited here yet?

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

What do you mean? Why is that bad?

And yes, That's where i got most of my Ideas and the basic design

[ToddTT]

What do you mean? Why is that bad?

And yes, That's where i got most of my Ideas and the basic design

I'm not saying that high flow is bad, but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

I see you have a ball valve controlling flow through your fuge, so that takes care of one concern.

Is this going to be a reef system, or FOWLR?

The mag 24 at 4 feet of head pressure will pump about 2000 GPH.

Did you also plan on having any powerheads in the main tank?

From Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums :

Most people aim for 10 to 15 times the volume of the tank for total circulation. The sump's return flow would be a portion of that total circulation, maybe 3 to 5 times the total circulation, and the rest is provided with powerheads and/or a closed loop system.

[mike007]

I'm not saying that high flow is bad, but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

I see you have a ball valve controlling flow through your fuge, so that takes care of one concern.

Is this going to be a reef system, or FOWLR?

It's going to be a reef later on, but for right now just FOWLR. I will probably keep mostly LPS and softies in the beginning and maybe one or two SPS.

The mag 24 at 4 feet of head pressure will pump about 2000 GPH.

Did you also plan on having any powerheads in the main tank?

I do plan on having powerheads inside the tank. I have now a K4 and will probably end up getting a couple of maxi-jets with the propeller mod. I also want to get the high flow pump because of head loss. I plan on having a manifold (dividing the single output of the pump into 4) and that would cause alot of head loss.

From Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums :

Thanks for that info, I hadn't seen it on his website. Ill try to replicate that.

By the way, thanks for all the help

[ToddTT]

I plan on having a manifold (dividing the single output of the pump into 4) and that would cause alot of head loss.

Is your plan to have the manifold down by the sump, or in the tank?

You may want to get one or two of these for splitting the return flow after it enters the display tank:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch Ball Socket Y Fitting

And after reading the reviews, maybe a couple of these, or the non-flared round nozzles:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch x 3 inch Ball Socket Flare Nozzle

I have a 75 gal with a supreme mag drive 1800, with a regular loc line nozzle. the flow was blowing the sand out of the bottom of the tank, So I added a loc line y splitter, and 2 ball socket flare nozzles. I like the better circulation of the tank from the splitter, however the flare nozzle really decreases the output flow. I'm now contemplating getting a more powerful return pump.

How will the water be getting back to the sump?

Hopefully some of the reef guys here will respond with comments as well.

[mike007]

Is your plan to have the manifold down by the sump, or in the tank?

It will be attached directly to the actual pump. I want to use it for making one or two return lines and then the other 2 for something that needs less flow or controlled flow such as a carbon or GFO reactor with a ball valve.

You may want to get one or two of these for splitting the return flow after it enters the display tank:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch Ball Socket Y Fitting

And after reading the reviews, maybe a couple of these, or the non-flared round nozzles:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch x 3 inch Ball Socket Flare Nozzle

I was planning to have just the non-flared one and if it is too much flow ill end up splitting it with one of those Y's. Then, if It really is just TOO much flow, ill get the flared nozzles and consider ball valving the return. but i don't think it can be that bad, then again, who knows? Im CrAzY!! lol I just don't want to end up having to be in your situation wanting to get a bigger pump (sounds like a nightmare to me)... I would rather have a little extra and then just dial it back if needed.

will the water be getting back to the sump?

Hopefully some of the reef guys here will respond with comments as well.

The water will be going back down through my overflow. I have to measure it to see how much flow it can handle but I think it can hold a MAG 24 with tons of head loss. Ill measure the overflow and post how much it can handle.

As of right now, I'm wondering how i can go about making the actual sump itself. I want to get started on it but don't know whether to use Glass or acrylic. I think I can Squeeze a 30 gallon tank in my stand (maybe not) but if I can the problem is then fitting the skimmer the way i want it. Only taking up 9" longwise...

[ToddTT]

I want to get started on it but don't know whether to use Glass or acrylic

http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html

What kind of acrylic and glue do you use, and where do you buy them?

¼” Acrylite FF for most applications. The glue is a product called Weld-On, that literally melts the two pieces of acrylic into one piece, forming a very strong bond. Weld-On #3 is fast drying (less than 60 seconds), #4 is slower (less than 5 minutes), and #16 is for patching.

#3 and #4 need a “needle applicator bottle,” and #16 needs a nozzle for better control (found at most hobby shops). I use a glass turkey baster to suck up #3 or #4 (from the can) when filling the applicator bottle.

These products can be found at Regal Plastics in Texas. Check the Yellow Pages for “plastics” to find a vendor in your area.

As far as using a glass tank, should you go that route, here are some dimensions:

Aquarium Sizes and Weights - An Aquarium Sizes and Weights Chart

[ToddTT]

Oh yeah... you might also consider putting your refugium on display, freeing up room in your sump.

Not all refugiums are hidden.

Of course this isn't always feasible...

[mike007]

Is your plan to have the manifold down by the sump, or in the tank?

You may want to get one or two of these for splitting the return flow after it enters the display tank:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch Ball Socket Y Fitting

And after reading the reviews, maybe a couple of these, or the non-flared round nozzles:

Loc-Line 3/4 inch x 3 inch Ball Socket Flare Nozzle



How will the water be getting back to the sump?

Hopefully some of the reef guys here will respond with comments as well.

http://www.melevsreef.com/make_a_sump.html




As far as using a glass tank, should you go that route, here are some dimensions:

Aquarium Sizes and Weights - An Aquarium Sizes and Weights Chart

Thanks for the links

What do you mean about putting the refuge on display? I don't like the idea of in-tank refugiums and I have no room for a hang-on. Are there any other options?

[ToddTT]

Thanks for the links

What do you mean about putting the refuge on display? I don't like the idea of in-tank refugiums and I have no room for a hang-on. Are there any other options?

Sure... just do like this guy. ;)

That's his fuge on the upper right:



240 gallon build TOTW 5-27-09

[mike007]

Sure... just do like this guy. ;)

That's his fuge on the upper right:


240 gallon build TOTW 5-27-09

Looks really cool but i can't get a tank over my DT like that.. refuge has to be in sump i guess...
thanks anyways Todd

Anyone else have any ideas?

[mike007]

Would it be a good idea to have another baffle on the return section to the refugium and use it as a wet/dry section with some LR rubble? also, the water running over the rocks would reduce microbubbles in the refuge. If i do this, would the live rocks need to be underwater? or do they have to be above the surface and only have water running over them? how does this concept work?!

[mike007]

well, I've decided to go glass. I'm gonna get everything I need to make it soon. Will post pics whenever i get around to doing it. Another question, I am worried about the borders of the tank, I am seeing borders on every tank i see and am wondering how to make this happen. will i need these support borders?

[AlwaysLearning]

Is your plan to have the manifold down by the sump, or in the tank?

It will be attached directly to the actual pump. I want to use it for making one or two return lines and then the other 2 for something that needs less flow or controlled flow such as a carbon or GFO reactor with a ball valve.

Just my two cents... every marine tank I've built has had the manifold at the top. There's a couple of good reasons for this:

• It reduces the head pressure on the pump enabling a higher flow rate. Pumps need flow rate to dissipate the heat from their coils, so if you reduce the flow too much the pump will overheat and die.
• Having two return lines doubles the chances of the tank siphoning down into the sump in the event of a power failure. Having three return lines triples, etc..

Whichever way you go, make sure you have a siphon break at each outlet.