My Greenhouse FARM In the making!

[Reefs Rock]

BGDIVING

Thanks BG. Is the East coast of FL warmer in winter than the West coast? The evening temps you are mentioning seem really cold for what I think of as FL.

[Reinhold]

Here in the Northland, when we refer to the "frostline," we are talking about the depth at which the dirt is frozen. The colder the environment, the deeper the frostline.

Where I live, the air temp can hit 45-50 degrees below zero (Fahrenheit,) and the frostline can be very deep. The frozen dirt often prevents burials for several months, and the caskets must be stored until the frost goes out.

[BGDIVING]

Reefs Rock don't throw away your winter clothes most people dig them out of storage or regret they discarded them about their 2nd year down here I believe you are going to see quite a few more frosts than either Scubadude or I are going to see. You are definatly going to need to think about heating or insulationg your green house! The Gulf stream moderates the East coasts weather a little but I think your going to be far enough North of us that your going to be colder than we are in the winter and the number of miles from the coast makes a big difference, A property on one of the barrier islands is going to be quite a bit warmer on these cold winter nights than a property 10 miles inland (most of the time). Ask your realator if people can grow mangos there ,with just a little protection, if not your colder than we are but if quite a few people have cocca nut palms than your winter climate is warmer than we are.

Reinhold Where is way up North, I grew up in Minnesota so I have a little idea how snow squeaks when its colder than 20 below, but down here my RO unit and RO holding tank and all of its plumbing is outside and above ground level. my water pipes to the house run 2 inches below ground then come out of the ground one foot from the house and then have copper pipes looping up into the air about 2 ft before heading back down to go under the house, on those occcasional relly cold nights in the 20's we'll leave a trickle of water running in the house to avoid freezing so we do have to think a little about cold weather with coral farms and green houses but our major concern most of the year is with cooling. I'm using artifical lighting so I'm having to vent or cool warm air during the day but have to use a little bit of heating at night during these "cold snaps" but my heater probably only runs 15 to 20 nights a year.

Scubadude are you having to vent warm air on a day like today? With cold nights and a nice sunny day like today what are your air temps in the late afternoon?

[platapus]

cant believe I havent found this thread sooner!

Nice job scuba!

[kyfugate]

BGDIVING touched on one of the prime consideration for the design of scubadudes geothermal heating/cooling system. His underground radiating system was installed during the spring/summer. to app 1 ft below the water table at that time. It is in very sandy soil near the gulf coast. The water table tends to fluctuate with the tides and rainy season in this area, which means a water table app 2 ft lower in the winter than in the summer. During the summer the water covered coils act as a highly efficent radiator transferring heat to the water and cooling the tanks while in the winter when the water table is lower the dry sand acts as a heat sink moderating whatever heat he artifically adds. My only reccomendation would be to add a long section of black plastic tubing or equivalent, to act as a solar heat collector for use durin the winter months.
your friendly neighborhood plumber/electrician/engineer

[BGDIVING]

kyfugate

Do You know how deep into the ground you need to go in this area to hit a stable year round temp?

[kyfugate]

BGDIVING
I cannot give you a set depth at which you will have a constant temperature, however for most of the conteniental United States a horizontial depth of from 3 to 5 feet is sufficent for a horizontal radiator for geothermal heating and cooling. In the extreme northern parts of the country it will be necessary to go below the frost line and use an antifreeze solution in the radiator loop, copuled with a heat pump type heat exchanger. to heat water circulating thru your tanks and to keep the radiator solution and the tank water from mixing.
Here on the coast of southwest florida, as with any areah, we have unique conditions that must be considered in order to design the most cost efficent system possible. a. Plenty of sun: b, seasonal changes in the water table.
We decided to install the radiator deeper thain normal to take advantage of the seasonal water table. During the summer when the most cooling is needed, the coil will be below water, and transefer the heat at a high rate providing optiomal cooling. While in the winter the water table drops leaving the coil in sand which is a fairly good insulator. In effect we convert the radiator, during summer, to a heat sink in winter.
I have attached a link that gives good basic info on geothermal systems in general. When you get to the web site click on visitor center and follow the thread; anywhere else and you get into sales and technical info.

Hope this helps.


http://www.igshpa.okstate.edu/Public...98catalog.html[/URL]

[scubadude]

Thanx bud for coming in here and explaining wat I had a hard time explaining Kenny can you fix that link you tried to post....We didnt quite get the tail end of that link. For those not versed well on this whole thread Kenny aka Kyfugate has basically been my engineer on my whole underground thermal system for the greenhouse tanks.

[eddie]

hmm..Kenny what do you think of using a insulated container filled with cold well water that overflows at a slow rate controlled by a thermostat?
then placing PEX tubing coils in the containers to pump the aquarium water thru constantly?

I studyed some on geothermal coolers & I seen some that were kinda like I descibed.
seems easy enough to set up & real efficant in theory.


Subadude

I found some intresting stuff out about my greenhouse/greenroom design in the past few weeks of trial & error.


my greenhouse frame now sports a insulated plywood roof & will have one end wall plywooded & insulated this weekend.
since its attached to the house only the 16ft wall & one end wall recieve light thru the sides & its just as bright inside ,as if I had a poly roof.
I guess I lucked out on the way the sun moves over the house cause it kinda sets on a hill.

also I found that I can use the 300 gal rubbermaids for growout vats(not buried) long as corals are kept 12" from the top plenty of light gets in.
hopefuly I'll be getting a large gaspack (for heating & cooling)for free from a friend to turn the greenhouse into more of a greenroom.

far as covering for the side with a 6ft high wall ,4 ft x16 for the side & (4x8 for the the end wall)will either be 1/4" glass or that reinforced greenhouse covering.

the floor will be a 2" concrete slab.

I guess it will be far from a greenhouse when Im finaly done but it will still be run mainly on sunlight.

[kyfugate]

eddie
The old mountain style "still" concept works verry well as a heat exchanger (from my grandfather). However inside the cold container I would recomend you use thin-walled pvc tubeing, instead of the pex. Pex tubeing works well if you have pressure over 20 pounds per square inch, but the wall thickness lowers your heat teansfer rate.
Thin walled pvc tubing is a clear plastic tubing that transffers heat verry well and if you have a valve at the discharge end of the tube it's possible to maintaine a slightly posotive pressure in the tubing to overcome it's tendency to colapse.
With what Rockey has been teaching me about aquariams it is not a good ideal to have metals come in contact with your aquariam water. Pex tubing is installed (house water piping) with brass fittings.
This may or may not be a factor in your system.

[eddie]

thanks kenny

I figured the pex they use for radiant floor heating would work well but I guess the thin wall pvc tubing probably would work better if its thinner.

I'll have to look into it.

[scubadude]

Installed a couple of 29g shallow tanks to the softie system....Im thinking they will be holding my frags and the main system will be just a mother colony tank.




Center o-flows on both tanks, and one spraybar serving both tanks flow is from a 100gph pump from the main tank and controlled by a ball valve using 3/4" PVC plumbing to the spraybars, and 1.5" outputs from the o-flows

Here you can see the output from the tanks going back into the main system.


This is a simple water changing Doo-Hickey I made one ball valve controls the water circulating in the tub, and the other ball valve controls the output to the other tanks for adding new SW for W/C's the pump is hard plumbed in the bottom of the 60 barrel/tub to a mag 18

[Reinhold]

Hey scubadude, what is the temp in your system during this cold weather? Any problems maintaining adequate heat?

[scubadude]

Originally posted by Reinhold
Hey scubadude, what is the temp in your system during this cold weather? Any problems maintaining adequate heat?

Lately its been 71-75 A little bit cooler than I would like but it appears no ill affects to the corals/fish.

Heres a few pics for you guys I took tonite, after spending the last couple days fragging a bunch of pieces that have been growing out.

[scubadude]

[kevinpo]

Right on! Let the production roll!

Regards,
Kevin

[Lunchbucket]

DAMN!! hook me up w/ some frags!!!!!!!

Lunchbucket

[qwuintus]

Scuba dude, do u have problems with the weather, I have a tank outside and I have to insulate it. Does the greenhose really keep it warm?

If not ever thought about digging a hole and then a ramp so u can have tanks under ground? Just a thought.


Anyways, your creations are bada$$....

Do u have any plans on the skimmer? I would like to try it.

[bolrog]

Just tagging a ride

[vtec si]

Hello Scuba,

It has been along time since I have talked to you, so I hope this question has not been asked five million times.

What is your ultimate goal with thw coral/frag farm? Are you going to be a supplier for LFS? Are you going to sell any from a/your web site?

I hope you have not had to answer these questions to many times.

Laters,

VTEC SI