comments on 65k's

[Ltspd]

Ninong, I keep trying to erase the image of Jameys tank from my mind [img]/ubb/eek.gif[/img] It reminds me of when I was a kid and I added lime kool-aid to the goldfish bowl, looked remarkable similar. I think you have solved the problem of the 6500k bulbs(or whomever posted that). I WILL BE specifing what bulbs designation I want.
I will be sending you a e-mail on a RAT I just had (random access thought), another one of my brainstroms or brainfarts.

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

[golfish]

Ninong, yes I just talk to Steve and he has switched the bulbs. its not the bulbs it the ballast.............Hey, I know, maybe he needs to send the ballast back to IC for tunning[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

[Ironreef]

RHarker didn't study 250w if he did where's the link. He only studied 175w and it pretty much match Sanjays. They used the same type equipment. Magnetic 250w Iwaski blew all the ballest away with this bulb but not on all of them = magnetic wasn't the best in 175 or 400w

[PerryinCA]

I'm sorry, I was speaking of electronic ballasts in general. Didn't mean to give the impression I was talking about the 250w. The tranformer ballast did come out the best in the 250 catagory.

I wasn't even implying that the electronic ballasts were the better. What I was trying to say is that it will take a while before anyone can really decide on which is a better choice (solid state or the standard transformer).

The FDA takes 7 years or testing to figure out if a drug will work as believed, and many tests are done. That happens for a reason. Only a lengthy period of time can really tell. Anytime you get into anything with more that a couple variables, the outputs (effects) can vary extremely in different situations.

Transformer has been around for a while, and is trusty. But that trust costs heat, size, and energy. On the other hand there is a risk the the smaller sleeker cooler electronic.

I just think that in the search for the best ballast, we likely won't be coming up with a deductive answer anytime soon, especially witht the continued development and discovery on the solid state side. It really boils down to your sense adventure. Do you invest in the money market where you know you get gains, albiet small, or do you go for the tech stocks, and high yield mutual funds at a little risk. Personally I'll take a little risk on the new tech. As things develope, I'll be able to upgrade. Can't really say the for transformers. Then again, transformers won't need an upgrade.

Or, I can just say the truth which is...we all like to think of ourselves as smart consumers, and will in every conscious, and sub-conscious way try to justify our purchases. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Also, I can for the cost of shipping change my MH to an HQI ballast, and since thats what I intend to do, I guess I made the correct choice.

-Perry[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Yam]

With regard to selling retrofit hqi lights, I don't think it is possible. Before I decided on 400W Iwasaki, I emailed Jason about hqi lighting. Its simple enough to get the hqi ballast. It just needs to be ANSI M98 or M99... I think. But the socket is difficult to get. It has a designation of RX7. But it is just about impossible to get by itself because nobody would sell it by itself. I wanted to put it into a wooden canopy, so I didn't need the fancy metal enclosures. Jason said it was due to a liability issue. If they sold only the sockets and somebody got injured... I'm 90% sure the 150W hqi lights use the same socket as the largest halogen socket. I also know you can take the largest halogen socket, hack it in half, mount them spaced further apart and the 250W or 400W would fit nicely. After all this trouble, I just decided to get the Iwasaki.

Perry: I thought the lights were 3x250W 10kk hqi at AC. I also stained the other cabinet and so that tank will be up and running within the next few days.

-Yam

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http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1267823

[PerryinCA]

I think the ones over the two shallow tidepools were 150w, but I could be wrong. I had never heard of people having problems getting the HQI sockets....then again what do I know [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

-Perry

Whoops....just searching I found a hydroponics store that sells the "double ended metal halide base". Only like $8. I am guessing that would work.

-Perry

[This message has been edited by PerryinCA (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Ninong]

JG ~

HQI lamps can be run on an IceCap HQI ballast. A few of the online vendors offer a 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamp in a small individual hood fixture with tempered glass UV shield, IceCap HQI ballast, and IceCap Timer. They also list a 150w 10,000K HQI double-ended setup in two individual little fixtures with a dual IceCap HQI ballast and IceCap timer...but this is evidentally a ballast that IceCap no longer produces, so caveat emptor...could be it's a great ballast, or...maybe not??? I do know that ASH has posted for months now that IceCap is working on a new 150w HQI ballast to run Venture 150w 10,000K HQI double-ended bulbs, and he actually has it in use on one of his home tanks, but it is still in the testing stage and I have no idea when they will release it.

BTW, your tank is very nice! But WOW! No wonder the color looks so nice, 13.5 watts per gallon! Are these AquaConnect metal halide lamps a brand new introduction to the hobby market? Are they domestic or foreign?

Ltspd, remember to throw out the pic of Jamey's tank in that light comparison thread I posted to because, according to Iwasaki, the bulbs that were sold to him as 400w 6500K bulbs were actually 4200K bulbs! So the reason his tank looks CHARTREUSE!!! is because it has 3x400w 4200K metal halides over it. He is still trying to get the vendor to replace these bulbs and send him the bulbs he actually ordered and paid for.

Golfish, why not ask Evets to switch his two 6500K Iwasaki bulbs and see if it is positively the ballast that is making the difference? And, if he agrees to do this, please let us know what he finds out. Thanks!

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ironreef]

electronic ballast have been out for awhile now just weren't popular with reefs ,hqi have been out for along time just not popular (usa) hqi has been proven to have the most par. I belive the test conducted by sanjay would remain the same unless there were design changes to the ballast. magnetic was only best in 250. Blueline was the better choice for 400w and IC was the better choice for 175w. Standard bulbs. I would like too use hqi. But I choose Iwaski cuz they still will last longer ,cheaper much cheaper for replacement and I have to many hobbiest to support. My daughters alone are making me go broke. violin,piano lessons man the frags I could buy monthly.

[JG]

Ninong,

Thanks for the compliment [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. As far as I know, only Marine Depot carried the AquaConnect bulbs. They're German bulbs. Andy seems to like these bulbs better then all the other 10k's. They're EXTREMELY intense compared to my 250w BlueLine bulbs....almost like stepping up from a 250 to a 400 bulb difference.

[This message has been edited by JG (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Ninong]

BTW, in checking around with all the various online vendors, I have found that only a few of them carry the HQI double-ended lamps, that the prices vary greatly!, and that some vendors can't even tell you who made the lamps--only that they're German! [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I did notice in the new Pet Warehouse "Winter 2000" catalogue that arrived in Friday's mail, that they have reduced the price on both the 150w & 250w sizes of their German made 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps. They reduced the price of the 150w size from $115 to $80, and the price of the 250w size dropped from $129 to $85. Quite a difference. In calling the vendor and speaking to someone in the "technical information" dept., I was put on hold while she ran to the back of the warehouse to check them for me. She came back to tell me she couldn't read German! [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] I asked her if she had any idea who they were paying for their bulbs, and she said, "Oh, it's Giesemann." There is a good probability that these are the same bulbs that are available at other online vendors for $99 for the 150w size and $129 for the 250w size. They are identified as Ushio at one of these other online vendors. Believe it or not, I had a very lengthy telephone conversation with mister GiesemannUSA (their N.Y. rep. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]) this past Friday morning and I asked him this exact same question, "Who manufactures the lamps that you stick in your Giesemann fixtures?" His response, "They get them in Germany." [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Sometime I wonder if the vendors' employees and the manufacturers' representatives all attended the same product knowledge training sessions that the LFS employees go through. [img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/online.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[golfish]

Ninong,
I would think that he has done that.I'll e-mail him and see.

[Ninong]

Originally posted by JG:
As far as I know, only Marine Depot carried the AquaConnect bulbs. They're German bulbs. Andy seems to like these bulbs better then all the other 10k's.

JG ~

Do you remember if there was anything on the packaging that would give you a clue to the name of the manufacturer? I wonder if it might be BLV, which is owned by Ushio? Or maybe one of the Siemens light divisions, like Osram?

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Irrational Exuberance!

[JG]

On the box it says "Distributed by TAAM Inc. Brenner 250w E 39"

[This message has been edited by JG (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Ltspd]

Hey, Ironreef, Glad to see the family first issue coem into play. Hey I could build a killer tank quick if I didnt have a 5yo, mortgage's, and all the other fun things in life. That is why I went with the PFO, even before I read the test results. It boiled down to money, I could by that and spend the money I saved on other reef tank things, or my family [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I just lucked up and got the right ballast for the situation. Originally I had ordered the 400w duals, but was convinced to return them for the 250w due to heat buildup and I didnt want to spend money on a chiller [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Perry, I agree on the sense of adventure. Unforunatly it isnt always the best route. I design machnery for a living and always run across the company with the latest and greatest. I have chosen them sometimes and it worked well, but I ahve sometimes chosen them and it went to the dogs. This is in the electronic world, the mechanical world things are pretty much constant in my head.
I think it boils down to preference. They will all work. Some work 20% better or 20% worse based on someones baseline or suggestion. That is a constant changing thing
[img]/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

[valid]

yam -
http://www.tsunchan.ttnet.net/p.html

[ASH]

From IceCap:
I'm a little late entering the fray here and feeling a little under the weather. Seems we didn't blow away the competition (like the Giants did) with the 250-watt Iwasaki's but I haven't read the review as of yet.

The Model 250-MHP will power the Ushio and other 250-watt double-ended 10K's we've tested so far. I'm sorry about the confusion on ballasts which is partly our fault and partly the bulb manufacturer's inability to standardize their bulbs, and I don't just mean their K. We offer 1 model of the 175 for everything. We have 1 250-watt, the MHI for the Iwasaki 250, and 1 for the rest of the aquarium bulbs, double ended included, the MHP. The exceptions are the Coralife German 10K which needs a re-starter added (and sometime the same is true of the SunBurst bulbs).

Andy

[Yam]

Valid: I've seen that page before and it is not a retail store. They look like an importer (based in Taiwan, but nothing is really made there, its all made in China now, except semiconductors) and there market seems to be companies that build fixtures. I could be wrong, but this was info Jason at PA told me. But PA does sell only the pendant shell with sockets etc. for the hqi lights.

-Yam

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http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1267823

[golfish]

Hey guys,
Here's an e-mail I got form Marine Depot regarding HQI lighting.

Since HQI bulbs require UV shielding, the 250W HQI
setups are only available as pendants. They cost is $260 per pendant
(including the bulb) and you will just need to match that up with the proper
PFO ballast: http://www.marinedepot.com/lt_mh_pfo.htm

We stock the HQI ballasts but not the pendants. They are special-order items
and are shipped directly from PFO in Washington State. The other items can
be picked up from our warehouse.

Please let us know if there is any further questions.

Sincerely,
Joseph
Marine Depot Customer Service


Just to add, the PFO HQI ballast is 263.00.

Looking at 850.00 for the PFO 2x250 watt HQI.....If I were to go with MH's, lets say 2x250 65K plus 1x250 12K that would be about 650.00 and then I would have to supplement them with the PC's

Oh yeah, the 650.00 for the MH's include
double ballast
single ballast
3x PFO 24" reflector
2x Iwasaki 65K bulbs
1 12K bulb

Maybe I'd better stick to using 2x250 watt 65ks....that's less than 400.00 and my wife won't kill me.

Mark (dead man walking)

[golfish]

Yeah Iron I know the feeling. We have sent our 17 year old daughter to private (catholic) since 1st grade hoping she would get a good scholarship, she choose to screw off during her High school years so it looks like she gets to go to the local JC. We also have a 2 year old daughter.I guess my wife has the same plan for her.