I need to make a decision as to whether to go with the 250 Watt Iwasaki 6500k bulbs or whether to go with 10,000k German bulbs (90 gallon tank).

I am looking for a natural sunlight look. What is the general consensus: Are the Iwasakis really as yellow as some people believe? I will be supplementing whatever bulbs I get with 2X96 watt o3 actinic PCs (true actinic).

Thanks.

JA

I would sugest reading the post in this forum. There is a lot of discussion on these bulbs. The designation on the bulb makes a huge diffrence. The bulbs need to have the DL and not the BH. This bulbs produce lots of PAR and PPFD, last very long, and are cheap.

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Here was my reply to your other post. I'll repeat it in case you didn't see:

Well, here's a pic. Between the algae (which has already died off some....yea it was that bad) and the backing being taken off for the time being (been messing with the lighting/powerhead placement and cords were getting caught) I can say its pretty damn depressing. But on the up side...its thinning out and the new Lawnmover is speeding it up.

Anyway, here's my lights. 2 250w Iwasakis, 2 actinic VHO's, and one 50/50, all on icecap ballasts. The color is nice, white, and intense. I could take a shot with the actinics off if you want to see it. The only green and yellow in my tank is that damn algae. Oh, and I haven't cleaned the glass in a couple days so that could be messin with the color. All settings on the camera were OFF (flash, light settings).

PerryinCA,

Thanks. I saw your pictures and I like the look a lot. However, other tanks that have the same set-up seem to look very yellow. I understand there is some issue with the designation on the bulb that may be contributing to the problem.

I was hoping to hear from those with the 10,000k Germans to see what they thought of them as well. I am looking for a certain kind of "sunlight" look and it is has not been easy finding the the right look by looking at pictures on the web.

Thanks again.

JA

FWIW, I have a 58 Oceanic with two 250w 10k MH's (AquaConnect German bulbs) on IceCap ballasts and three 36" VHO actinics(285w) on IceCap ballasts. I was gonna go with the Iwasaki's, but from what I've seen they're pretty yellow...although Perry's tank soes have a nice white color to it. Perhaps the tanks i saw lit by the Iwasaki's has the BH bulbs instead of the DL...




[This message has been edited by JG (edited 01-19-2001).]

Here are a few of the articles. http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000608.html http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000662.html http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000653.html http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000655.html http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000645.html http://www.reefland.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000589.html http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../2/default.asp http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../1/default.asp http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../2/default.asp
My .02 is that it will be very hard to beat the 250w 6500k Iwasaki's based on the longevity, PAR, PPFD and color and price. It must be noted that you must use the DL bulb and supplement with 03 blue. I have been in the same decesion process myself. I have a dual PFO 250w ballast, which for the money is the best buy. The article in the Marine Reef and fish 2001 annual points out that the magnetic ballast, for the 250w outperforms all others by a long shot. The only one that is close (actually sligtly greater PPFD) is the HQI's. From what I know and have read these must be used with a UV sheild. Does this reduce the PPFD and PAR? I dont know. My current thoughts, as of 7:01 est on 1/19/01 are that I will use (2)6500k DL Iwasaki's supplemented by (4)110w VHO's of unknown color and I am considering adding a 3rd 250w mh, 6500k and making all the VHO's super actinics. Now this thought will change 6-7 times before the night ends, then I will change my mind 10-12 times tommorow. This will be for a 125g custom tank I will be haveing constructed in the near future. The point I am trying to make is that it will YOUR decesion, based upon your taste. I dont have any LFS's to even see any of these bulbs in true life. Good luck! Lighting is the most difficult aspect of reefing, and probally will be for a long time [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

aahhh....t'was only about a month ago when my tank looked almost as nice as John's. Then the extralive rock was added.....[img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]


Oh yea....wanted to add, I like the color of the Iwasaki, but I will be switchin to the Ushio 10k HQI in the near future (in a month or two), more PPFD, and higher CCT. I wish I would have gone that route to begin with.

-Perry


[This message has been edited by PerryinCA (edited 01-19-2001).]

what was the par on the 250 usio? On a 400w 10k usio pfo hqi its 105.7 and on the 400w Iwaski magnetic its 187.6. Blueline 176.3Its less by alot. i thought there was a better bulb or whats the deal? This comes from sanjays test. 250w Iwaski is 128.3

[This message has been edited by Ironreef (edited 01-19-2001).]

Perry,

I'm intersted in doing the same and going with the Ushio 10k HQI's. What kind of socket would be needed and who sell them? I saw Reefers has the bulbs for $129 each. These bulbs have to have a UV sheild right? Can I use the Spiderlight reflectors with these sockets and bulbs? How would one mount the UV sheild?

TIA,

John

Originally posted by Ironreef:
[b]what was the par on the 250 usio? On a 400w 10k usio pfo hqi its 105.7 and on the 400w Iwaski magnetic its 187.6. Blueline 176.3Its less by alot. i thought there was a better bulb or whats the deal? This comes from sanjays test. 250w Iwaski is 128.3

The PPFD on the 250w 10,000K Ushio double-ended lamp was 128.8 and the PPFD on the 250w 6500K Iwasaki was 104.5 in the test that Sanjay did previously that is posted to his website. The HQI lamp was tested using an HQI ballast and the Iwasaki was tested using a MagneTek ballast.

However, in this new test that Sanjay did that is published in Marine & Reef Annual 2001, the 250w 6500K Iwasaki tested on a MagneTek ballast at 124.3 PPFD...however this reading is noticeably out of line with what it tested on the other ballasts and with what it tested previously on a MagneTek ballast. In this most recent test, it tested 106.5 on MV, 99.8 IC, and 90.7 Blueline...all of which numbers are closer to the previous result of 104.5 on MagneTek as reported in the previously done analysis of 250w metal halide lamps.

The 400w Ushio 10,000K HQI is a mogul based lamp, not a double-ended HQI lamp like the 250w Ushio that tested at 128.8 PPFD. The 400w Ushio tested at only 99.11 on magnetic, 105.7 on PFO-HQI, and 107.5 on Blueline.

If the numbers in Sanjay's previous test of 250w metal halides are correct, then the 250w 10,000K Ushio HQI double-ended lamp produced more PPFD than any 250w lamp yet tested, and more than any 400w lamp yet tested except for the 400w 6500K Iwasaki...the 400w GE 6000K produces approximately the same PPFD as the 250w double-ended.

It seems obvious, to me at least, that the 150w HQI double-ended lamps are superior to any 175w MH lamps and equal to many 250w MH lamps, and the 250w HQI double-ended lamps are superior to any other 250w MH lamps and equal to almost all 400w MH lamps except Iwasaki. The last test that I saw on the 150w HQI was done about 18 months ago and I have not been able to find it. I do remember the author's conclusion: the 150w HQI was far superior to any 175w MH lamps and would last twice as long as any 175w MH lamp.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Irrational Exuberance!

The old test he did post 120.6 on a 25hr burn . I wonder if the bassast wasn't working correctly? Which test is right? But I can imagine ballast by the same manufacture can still have a big varible. iwaski is still the best bang for the $$ with electrical bills going up hqi is gonna add alot to the cost.You maynot need vho but I stil like day/night effect but I do agree hqi is a better bulb

I think Iron hit it on the head. Iwasaki is definitely the best 'bang. The HQI is more costly, but if your looking for that color and want good output as well, then you pay the buck. I agree too that dawn/dusk is good. I'll keep mine. I am gonna run 1 iwasaki, and 1 HQI for a month or two, and put a couple frags from the same colony under each and see how they do....similar to the flour. x mh camporison over at RC. See what the 'hype' is about on my dollar. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] After seeing the HQI though, I'll say that they are very intense. the 150w 10k look as bright as 250w 10k.

-Perry

Ok,

Since I started the whole case about the non-DL bulbs being sold by some MO places, I think I need to make some clarifications.

I see a lot of people posting/specifying the "BH" bulbs as bad, and the "DL" bulbs as good. The BH or BU is irrelevant. They just signify the mounting position. BH stands for "Base Horizontal" and BU stands for "Base Universal". All bulbs have some type of mounting designation. They key thing is to ensure that the bulb also has "DL" on it. This stands for "Daylight Spectrum." Bulbs with "B-whatever" and "DL" are fine. Bulbs with "BH" or any other mounting position, but with no "DL" are not 65K. So please don't think of "BH" being opposite of "DL." They designate different properties for the bulb.[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

If I go with 250w HQI dbl-end lamps (which I probably will), I will definitely have some amount of supplemental fluorescent lighting to provide dawn/dusk effects.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

As long as its not used in a pendant then its the right one. You have to remember that it'll take at least 100 hours for it to 'burn in'. After that, it's been said that the 400w are a little more yellow than the 250watt. going from the blue 12k to the eye 6500k is a pretty big difference, give the lamps a chance to burn for a couple weeks before making a conclusion. Also, they are MUCH more intense than the 12k, so be carefull and be sure to correctly acclimate the tank. You'll love them once the coral begins to grow faster, and 'color up' more.

-Perry

THANKS PERRY.

Hmmm... Based on everyones helpful advice I had just about decided on the 250 watt mini-HQI system from IceCap, but now I noticed something that could be a problem. In shopping for the best price on these systems, I noticed some of the product descriptions mention that this system is meant to be used alone. I wonder if adding a second system under my hood as well as flanking 96 watt PCs (2) would affect the systems in any way, such as by causing them to fail due to excess heat. The hood has a 3" by 36" opening running along the back, but I was not planning on putting any fans in the hood to circulate the air. Instead, I have just about resolved myself to buy a chiller to cool the tank. I've come to the conclusion that in South Florida its either buying a chiller or running your air conditioner at 60 degrees (plus, say 200 radio shack fans) everyday during the summer. You can imagine which option turns out to be cheaper in the long run.

Any help is appreciated.

JA

From what I have read so far......the HQI bulbs with Icecap ballast not only are as intense as a 250MH but they supposedly are a lot cooler and more energy efficient than standard MH. Ironreef mentioned something about energy bills being higher with the HQI....I'm wondering if what I have read is inaccurate.

Grouper ~

Is it possible that the expression "meant to be used alone" means that they do not really need actinic supplementation? In any event, the Ice Cap ballasts are separate and would be mounted away from the heat. You might be able to get by without a chiller as long as you are willing to let your tank run at 83-F during the afternoons. I plan to run my tank 80-83F and do not plan on getting a chiller. I will be putting 2x250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps plus actinic fluorescent supplementation over a 120-gal tank in south Louisiana (we keep the house around 75-F in the summer). I will be extremely disturbed if that turns out to be a miscalculation. [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

I was refering that since electic bills are going up thats $$ the hqi I blieve would need to be replaced sooner and cost more than iwaski= more $$. I doubt if the cost more to run. when buying something you need to include the cost of maintance also IMO. so a extra 100 here extra hundred there 50 here for other stuff can add up