I think you should return the 4200K bulbs to the vendor because you didn't order 4200K bulbs, you ordered 6500K bulbs. The vendor should ship you three new replacement 6500K MT400DL/BH bulbs at no cost to you (you already paid for them and have never received them). The vendor can then seek compensation from the manufacturer.

If you suffered any damages to your aquarium inhabitants as a result of the negligence on the part of the vendor and/or manufacturer, you could seek restitution for that as well.

It is not a question of whether anyone deliberately shipped you the wrong bulbs, the fact is you did not receive what you paid for and you have notified them as soon as you discovered the error.

I would suggest that everyone with 6500K Iwasaki metal halide bulbs check their bulbs to make sure the "DL" designation is on there, and if it isn't, they should contact their vendor to have them replaced.

Ninong

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Irrational Exuberance!

[This message has been edited by Ninong (edited 01-09-2001).]

The 400 watt retro I installed last week came with bulbs marked Metal Halide Lamps Eye Clean Ace MT400DL/BH these are the correct bulbs right? They look a little yellow to me but due to the fact I upgraded to 400 watt I am still only using a two and a half hour photoperiod,will the color shift after a few more weeks of burning?

You got the right ones!

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

I have purchased 400W Iwasaki from PA and got the MT400DLBHs. I was also under the impresion that the only Iwasaki 6500K 250W was a universal mounting one - ie no BH/BUD designation just MT2500DL. BTW BUD stands for Base Up or Down, meaning that they are designed to run VERTICALLY. They will run OK horizontally but not as long or as bright as they would vertically.

Gavan

Ltspd,

You are not throwing any fuel on the fire. About the Electronic v.s. conventional ballast issue., at least as it refers to the BlueLine ballast.

The bottom line for me is this.

400 watt German AB lamp and the BlueLine ballast combination has proven insufficient to keep my Blue Tipped Acropora colored up.

There are some additional factors in my case such as distance of the lamp from the tank, and the Oceanic center brace, but the bottom line is that I will be experimenting with different bulb and ballast combinations until I can get the blue tips back on my “barometer” Acorpora.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

Scott ~

How about changing one of the bulbs to a Ushio 10,000K and see if you notice a difference.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong,

Have you seen any PAR comparisons between the Ushio 10,000K and the German AB lamps?

Also, I just ordered a PFO dual ballast to compare against the BlueLine ballast.

I know I can also change out the transformer for a MV as a further experiment.

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

Originally posted by SPASSE:
Have you seen any PAR comparisons between the Ushio 10,000K and the German AB lamps?

Sort of. Remember the www.ab-aqualine.de link I posted for you a while back? If you pull up the AB-10000 bulb info, they have a graphic depicting PAR.

Then if you go to Sanjay's site http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/.../aquarium.html
you can find his test results for both the 250w Ushio 10,000K HQI dbl-ended with a graphic depicting PAR for all the bulbs tested... AND, if you check the 400w article you will find the same info. NOW, which bulb did he test for the 400w German mogul based lamp? Was that a Ushio bulb? And does that mean it is an HQI mogul based 400w bulb? Are some of the German 400w 10,000K E-40 base bulbs HQI and some not HQI? This gets very confusing. The only reason I got into this was because of the two nice German fixtures I am considering, one comes with Ushio and one comes with AB-Aquline bulbs... both are 250w HQI double-ended lamps, but, as I already mentioned, all of the AB 10000 lamps are really 13,000K according to AB-Aqualine.

OK, so can you please explain some of this stuff to me?

Thanks,

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. - One more question: Are the Ushio lamps coming from Japan or from the Ushio owned BLV factory in Munich?

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Irrational Exuberance!

[This message has been edited by Ninong (edited 01-10-2001).]

Scott,

I would hazard a guess to say that the colouration in the blue tipped Acropora is due to UV protection pigment. If you wanted the tips to colour up I would think that you would want a bulb that puts out a decent amount of UV and slowly acclimate it to that. Of course significant amounts of UV can be harmful to species not well adapted to dealing with it (including humans with backgrounds from the Northern Hemisphere)... just a thought...

Gavan

GavAn,

I appreciate your input on this.

Whether this is a UV issue or an overall intensity issue is the big question.

Actually I would think that a 400-watt 10,000K lamp like my AB brand would already have a lot of UV output. Then again, my center brace probably plays hell with any UV. [img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

And I have also seen a number of posters talk about not being able to maintain the “blue tips” of my particular species of Acropora with anything less than 400-watt Iwasaki’s.

Another reason that I am growing “tired” of the BlueLine ballasts is related to their interaction with my X10 based Aquacontroler control system. This is in spite of the fact that I am a EE and already have some pretty comprehensive filters attached to them. Also, they faired rather poorly in the light output department, compared with conventional ballasts.

ASH, If you are listening, please come out with a 400-watt IceCap.

Ninong, I am afraid that I am becoming just a confused as you about some of the MH light choices.

Unfortunately, the test matrix that would be necessary to test the “entire” range of possible ballast and lamp combinations, would be quite a test indeed. (and I do electronic hardware evaluation for a living)

Oh well,

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

[This message has been edited by SPASSE (edited 01-10-2001).]

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that your Acropora would color up better under a 400w 6500K Iwasaki bulb compared to a 400w 10,000K AB-Aqualine bulb. I think the Iwasaki has more intensity than the AB and I think that is the real controlling factor in SPS coloration and not UV. The only reason I am leaning in the direction of 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps is because I like the color and I am afraid that 400w Iwasaki's might put out too much heat.

And, of course, I am a firm believer that proper postioning of the SPS in the tank relative to the MH bulb and total duration of the metal halide photoperiod can do wonders for almost any 250w bulb. If I were concerned about coloration and didn't feel like trying a different bulb, the first thing I would do is increase the metal halide photoperiod to a full 12 hours. Any actinic supplementation would probably run 13 - 13.5 hours total. As long as you keep at least 10 hours of "lights off" you should have no problems.

There is no doubt than a certain amount of UV-A is beneficial to all living organisms, but the amount is probably very small. All UV-B and UV-C is harmful to everything, including corals. I don't think the UV has anything at all to do with coloration in shallow water species like Acropora; I think it's all a matter of intensity and total photo period. Obviously the intensity part applies to the natural reef and the "total photo period" part is just a way that the reefkeeper can cheat a little to make up for a lack of intensity in the home aquarium.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

This is an example of some of the color I am getting on my Acro. and Monty. Some of these corals were all brown before switching to all Iwasaki. In just a matter of 6-8 weeks they colored right up.




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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef



[This message has been edited by bajathree (edited 01-10-2001).]

Hey Baja ~

Very nice! But don't forget to tell 'em you have 900 watts of 6500K Iwasaki's plus 220 watts of VHO actinics over a 48" long tank, all run on Ice Cap ballasts--except the one 400w Eye. And, you have a chiller the size of Rhode Island in your basement. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

N I N [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] N G

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Irrational Exuberance!

Bajathree,

1 What wattage/brand did you have before the Iwasaki’s

2 Are you using MV or MH ballasts?

Ninong, I guess I was just really taken aback by the idea of 400-watt AB lamps not being adequate to keep the color in this species of Acropora. Everything else in the tank is doing well.

I had better luck years ago with 150-watt Iwasaki’s. (admittedly smaller tanks)

Regards,

Scott

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The definition of an expert is a washed-up drip under pressure.
You can see my reeftank at http://www.homestead.com/spasse/

Originally posted by SPASSE:

Ninong, I guess I was just really taken aback by the idea of 400-watt AB lamps not being adequate to keep the color in this species of Acropora. Everything else in the tank is doing well.

Scott ~

I like to visit Steve Tyree's site because he gives detailed information for each of the Acropora species he sells, including light requirements. And some of the species are much more light happy than others.

It seems to me that a species of Acropora that is adapted to very shallow water--one that might even be exposed at low tide on a daily basis--would do better under a 6500K Iwasaki than under a 13,000K AB-Aqualine. Of course, even this is not a true comparison because according to Sanjay's testing, the Iwasaki's measured higher than 6500K. And, of course, it is AB-Aqualine who admits that all of their AB 10000 metal halide bulbs have a Kelvin temperature of 13,000K. I still can't get over that one. The exact quote was "AB 10000 is just the name of the lamp, the color temperature of the lamp is 13,000 degrees Kelvin."

Hmmm....

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



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Irrational Exuberance!

Hey Scott ~

I just visited Sanjay's site and I answered one of my questions. I have no idea how I missed this so many times before... probably because I was concentrating on the 250w article and paid less attention to the 400w article. Anyway the 400w 10,000K metal halide bulb that Sanjay tested was your AB-10000.

Here is a quote from his article on the 400w test:

The output of light in the photosynthetic range of the Iwasaki lamp is about 50 percent higher than the output of the 10,000 K Aqualine Buschke lamp, 75 percent higher than that of the 20,000 K Osram/Radium lamp and almost 100 percent higher than that of the 10,000 K Coralife lamp.

Maybe that sheds some light on your acropora coloration as far as which would color it up better. Also, he measured the 400w Iwasaki as 7400K new and 6600K at 18 months. It seems both the 250w size and the 400w size Iwasaki's are really higher than 6500K, provided that have that all important "DL" as part of their name.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. - I still like the results he published for the 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended, which I believe was a Ushio. He doesn't say, and I have read the article 5 times now.

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Irrational Exuberance!

Isn't ushio made after the test date?so it couldn't be? mail him and ask.

Ironreef ~

The article on the 250w metal halides was published in Aquarium Frontiers in December 1999.

I read on one of the other boards that the 250w HQI was a Ushio; however, I followed your suggestion and send an e-mail to Dr. Joshi. I hope he replies as I would like to know for sure myself.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong you have to keep rubbing that "DL" issue [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]

Well I am dealing with Eye Lighting and Champion on resloving my problem. Let's see what happens!!!
I think we are going to work this thing out right!!!

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

Jamey ~

Don't go for those replacement bulbs that were suggested by the vendor. Get the 400w Iwasaki 6500K MT400DL/BH bulbs and then you will be happy.

Look at Baja's tank, it isn't CHARTREUSE at all. [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] And look at how SPASSE is not completely satisfied with his 400w AB 10000 bulbs.

N I N [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] N G

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Irrational Exuberance!