FWIW,

My experiences with champion have never been that great either. I agree with you and Ninong. You ordered a 65k bulb. They sent you a 45k bulb, which you and they were not aware of. Now they need to correct their mistake, and send you what you had originally ordered.. A 65k bulb! Sorry to hear about your troubles. PA made the same mistake with me. I never contacted them about it, since I had already replaced the bulb when I went to MACNA. I have a feeling though, that Jason would have been a hell of lot more understanding about the situation. They have a pretty good track record of service with me.

Originally posted by GavAn:

I would hazard a guess to say that the colouration in the blue tipped Acropora is due to UV protection pigment. If you wanted the tips to colour up I would think that you would want a bulb that puts out a decent amount of UV and slowly acclimate it to that.

GavAn ~

I finally found the other reference I was looking for on this topic: http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../2/default.asp

Ultraviolet light
Ultraviolet (UV) light has been the focus of a great deal of coral research in the past few years. It has been linked to coral bleaching in the wild, and is generally considered harmful to corals and other invertebrates (Lesser et al. 1990). In spite of what I find to be the well documented harm UV causes corals, some segments of the hobby continue to speculate about the value of UV light over a reef tank. The speculation is based on the belief that ultraviolet light enhances the color of certain stony corals. Pigments of red, pink, blue and green are thought to be a coral’s “sunscreen,” which protects it from damage from ultraviolet light.
I believe the assumptions are wrong on a number of counts. First, corals do possess pigments that protect them from UV. The pigments, however, are clear, much like sunscreen used by people is clear (Banaszak and Trench 1995). Furthermore, the green, blue, pink and red pigments normally associated with UV protection by the hobby have nothing to do with UV (Dove et al. 1995).

The link between pigment and UV is easy to understand. With few exceptions, the most colorful corals are found near the surface of the water where high levels of UV light are present. Deeper water corals are typically brown even when nearby corals of the same species closer to the surface are colorful. Based on these observations, it was assumed that UV light produced more colorful corals.

Because research has ruled out UV, other conditions must account for the difference. As pointed out above, light intensity drops rapidly as one descends in the water. Corals near the surface receive considerably more light than deeper water corals. The higher intensity of light near the surface may be providing greater energy to corals giving them the necessary excess energy to produce pigments. Unfortunately, research has not yet proven a link between light intensity and pigmentation, so the matter remains open to speculation. In the meantime, hobbyists who find bright colors in their stony corals fading should consider light intensity as the most likely culprit.

In the reef tank, excessive UV can have deleterious effects on both reef inhabitants and the reef hobbyist. Metal halide and fluorescent bulbs used in the hobby provide protection from excessive UV light. In addition, hobbyists should use common sense around reef tank lighting. Do not operate double-ended metal halide bulbs without protective UV filtering glass, and metal halide bulbs should be discarded should the outer envelope become cracked or broken.

The above is the relevant section from Richard Harker's article and I believe you have already Dana Riddle's article on intensity vs. UV radiation as likely causes for coloration.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]


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Irrational Exuberance!

[This message has been edited by Ninong (edited 01-26-2001).]

Well time for an update.

I got the tracking numbers of my 2 new 6500k DL bulbs today. They are scheduled to arrive on Monday. Guess who they are coming from.........Eye Lighting(Iwasaki).

I have been dealing with them since the Champion Lighting decided that they did not want to. What a mistake.

The people at Eye Lighting are first class. I told them how Perry at Champion treated me and they listened to what happen and decided to give me two bulbs. I spoke with a gentleman in Technical service that was extremely helpful to me and very knowledgeable about the bulbs.

I will never do business with Champion lighting again. They do not know how to treat a customer. I know that this is not an isolated incident. I had never had a problem with Champion before and I have ordered form them a couple times. When I had this problem I expected Perry to correct the problem. He did not do this, the manufacturer realized the problem and they did fix it. In fact the last time I called Perry was to ask what Iwasaki had said about replacing the Lamps. He said that they said the same thing that he had said, "they are one year old" in other words your SOL.

But when I got off the phone with him I called Iwasaki, they said they had decided to send me two new bulbs!!!
I bet he never even called them.

Please take your lighting business somewhere other than Champion Lighting & Supply. It's not worth the chance of loosing money!

Another interesting thing it that Perry offered me new Iwasaki bulbs at the great discount of $50 from the orig. $59. I asked if he would sell me any 10000k at a discount and he said he would sell the "in-house" Bluelines for $59 from their orig. $99 No others were offered at that price! How can he sell them for so cheap and not the Iwasaki's???

I will be installing the bulbs and will have some new pics soon. I want to do some comparison pics also. I'll let you know when their burning!

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]


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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

REAL BIG FISH, Glad to hear you got some satisfaction. Let me know how you like the new bulbs (dl). I guess we know who not to do business with and who to do business with.

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

RBF~

will the eye company deal with the public direct without the confussion of this problem with the middle man?

not real sure anout that Keith. I will see. I'm sure they have a list of dealers if they don't. I will find out Monday!

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

I was reading through these messages and I am stumped with a couple of problems. Okay, first of all Hamilton's 10K Euro 400 watt bulb is supposedly the same bulb as Ushio's 10K bulb. This is info I gained from the info. sheet of Premium Aquatics. The info. is here:
<A HREF="http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen<img" TARGET=_blank>http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen<img</A> src="/ubb/raspberry.gif">ROD&Store_Code[img]/ubb/raspberry.gif[/img]A&Product_Code=10K-400WG&Category_Code=Hbulbs

However, I went to both Ushio "and" Hamilton's web pages, and came up with the following info:

On Ushio's web page (Page 22 of the general illumination bulb catalog),
http://www.ushio.com/catalogs.htm

it listed the 10K aquarium bulb (UHIS400AQ) as being the same color rating as the rest of the bulbs on the page. Well, that was, according to page 20 of that catalog, an 80 CRI. YET, I went to Hamilton's web page,
http://www.hamiltontechnology.com/10k.htm

and it states that their 10K bulb has a CRI of 95! Although they do not mention the 400 watter being available on that page, it was verified not only by a company member that they make them, but also the fact that it is on their sale page:
http://www.hamiltontechnology.com/sale.htm

Therefore, I am wondering if there really is a connection between the Hamilton and Ushio bulbs. Also, if there is, who has the correct CRI????

As for the Iwasaki's, I love the sound of their PAR rating, but am not sure about the UV radiation. Still contemplating on that one. I emailed Hamilton to ask them about the CRI rating, and will hopefully hear back from him/her soon. Any takes on this matter?

Brent

Brent ~

Well, I hope I don't add to your confusion, but this is what I have been told. The Hamilton and the Red Sea 250w 10,000K metal halide lamps are identical and are both produced in the BLV factory just outside Munich, Germany. BLV is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ushio of Tokyo, Japan.

I have heard that the Hamilton 400w 10,000K metal halide lamp is produced elsewhere in Europe (possibly Belgium, but I'm not sure, and I'm not sure who owns the factory).

CRI is not a good measure of metal halide lamps unless you are trying to duplicate exactly what something looks like in natural sunlight to the human eye. Because that is exactly was the Color Rendition Index is... it is an index indicating how far a lamp will shift the visual appearance (meaning human eye perception) of an object away from what it would look like (to the human eye) under natural sunlight illumination. It is also compared to CCT (Correlated Color Temperature) in some way but I forgot the details and I don't feel like looking it up right now. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, by definition, a metal halide lamp that makes the objects in your tank appear a pretty bluish-white will not have as high a CRI as one that makes them appear exactly the same as they would under natural sunlight. As a matter of fact, the corals couldn't care less what things appear to human eyes. It is not a number to get hung up on.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

see champion sucks thats why I actually flamed that guy when he posted here a few months back..I called them once and they were being a jerk to me so they lost out on my mh retro purchase and the p.c. I ended up buying from marinedepot...What a bunch of idiots they have working over there you'd thihnk especially with the internet and this hobby(BB's especially) they would wise up and start kissing @ss!!!!

Dan

I'm running 2-400watt Sunburst 12,000k metal halides, VERY blue. I saw another guys tank, same size as mine running 2-250watt Iwaski 6500k bulbs and his was MUCH brighter, his corals bigger with more color (I cannot grow Acropora). Is this a case of bigger isn't always better? It's about time to change out my bulbs due to their age, should I switch to the 250watt Iwaski 6500k bulbs?

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Jim - GO HOGS GO!
Visit my NEW Reef Page -
http://razorbackfan.topcities.com

I will try the 250watt 6500k Iwasaki bulbs then. Maybe the lower wattage will help on my electric bills too. Will I need another ballast? I have a tar ballast from Champion Lighting that came with my 400watt retrofit kit and it works fine.

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Jim - GO HOGS GO!
Visit my NEW Reef Page -
http://razorbackfan.topcities.com

Yup, bulb/ballast wattage must match, or else you run the risk of destroyed gear, fire, even exploding lamps.

-Perry

I knew it. Ok, any ballast recommendations?

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Jim - GO HOGS GO!
Visit my NEW Reef Page -
http://razorbackfan.topcities.com

Some people will disagree with me, but I recommend Icecap for many reasons. They are expensive, yes, but they are the most advanced, efficent, smallest, tunable, available. According to Sanjays article, they didn't have the highest output of the ballasts tested, but from what I've been told that particular ballast isn't the same one now sold....which is another benefit of Icecap. They are contantly looking to improve their products, and offer $10 upgrades when they have a break. They also commonly browse the boards and offer assistance. Just like the flourescent ballasts which had problems the first few years (they are now regarded as THE best) the MH may be subject to small glitches as they are still somewhat 'young' in design. Icecap will correct any problems for free. However, I run nothing but Icecap and have had not problem running 3 different lamps on them. If you go with the Icecap, I recommend getting the restarts put in.

If you are looking for a good, lower priced ballast, go with PFO. They are strong, and will run most lamps (aside from HQI). If you want to spend a little more, I recommend the Icecap.

JMO, and I'm sure you'll hear from those on the other side of the tracks.

-Perry

[This message has been edited by PerryinCA (edited 01-30-2001).]

RAZORBACKFAN,
I would recommend an Advance 71A3802. ($24 from Graybar elec.) Its a MV ballast and you can only use it with the iwasaki 250DL bulb. I just installed onE on my tank and its SWEET!!!! NOT EVEN A TINGE OF YELLOW! i CANT BELIEVE HOW BRIGHT IT IS!

[This message has been edited by SEABUZZ (edited 01-30-2001).]

How about the PFO standard MH ballast. I know Perry likes his IC ballast and I have to say they weigh less than a box of klenex, There are some good things about them, did I mention they weigh less than a box of Klenex[img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I have seen them side by side, Ice Cap on the left and PFO standard on the right, The PFO was a lot brighter than the IC......A LOT

Mark

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Tank site is still under constuction.
http://members.aol.com/golfish49/index.html

I had some of the "new german" coralife 10k, and they were WAY blue, similar to the 12k. Now, I didn't have any coral in the tank for the first few months, but I will say that with the Iwasakis the tank looks about 10x brighter, and the color rendition is much more 'true'. I really don't like the washed out blue operating room look. I really like the Iwasaki, but am gonna give the Ushio 10k HQI lamps a try and see what they look like. I'll be getting some pics up in the next week or two of side by side comparisons of the 250w Iwasaki, and the 250w HQI Ushio 10k. For all practical purposes, the 250w Iwasaki is the way to go IMO.

-Perry

I will second you on that Perry! I have 2 10000K Coralifes sitting in my closet that I ran for a month. I did not like them at all.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

I can not speak from experience but just because it cost more does that make it better? Like IC fans, 60 for a varible speed fan. Is it better or just more? The stuff I have read is the mh ballast are brighter for certian wattage bulbs. Now, if I had to mount the ballast in the hood, I might go for the klenex box. IMO that is the WRONG place to mount a ballast, I think anywhere within 3' of SW is bad. I would rather spend the 150.00 I saved on the ballast to buy something else I might need. JMO. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Paul ~

Nobody pays $60 for an IceCap fan. They are available all over the web for $42 - $44 each, which is only slightly more than a cheapy fan that you have to pay extra for a finger guard for.

Ninong [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!