One of the members on another reef board was concerned because he had two 250w 6500K Iwasaki bulbs with different markings. One was stamped MT250BH and the other MT250DL/BH, so he e-mailed Iwasaki and this was their reply:

You purchased two different lamp types:

MT250BH is a standard Metal Halide lamp and would appear yellow compared to
the MT 250DL/BH
The MT 250 DL/BH is a high color rendition lamp used commonly for aquariums.

Thanks

Mike

PS DL stands for daylight BH is for base horizaonal

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You might want to check your Iwasaki bulbs to make sure the "DL" is on there.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Thank You, I will keep in mind when I order bulbs for new setup. I presume that If ordered from a reputable place such as PA I would get correct bulbs? I will specify.

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Yeah, you could assume that! [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] But I wouldn't! [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

If I were you, I would double check just to make sure that they look at the bulbs before shipping them out to you. You just happened to mention the online vendor who supplied the MT250BH standard metal halide lamp, although this was not a very recent order. It was a bulb that the hobbyist got from them some time back and he just happened to notice that the markings were different to his newer bulbs.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong,

You got me thinking because I've noticed that my 400w MHs seem MUCH more yellow than the 250s that I used to run. Matter of fact, I never noticed a yellow coloration with the 250s but could definitely see it on the 400s and I attributed this simply to "burn in" required.

Anyway, I just checked all my 250s that were in the garage and every one was a 250 DL - there was no BH at all. The 400s on my tank, however, have both the DL/BH designation. Like I said before, however, the DL/BH are MUCH more yellow in appearance. I wonder if they make a DL only bulb in the 400w version? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Randy

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Come meet the gang!
http://www.homestead.com/reefengineer/homepage.html

Hey Randy. I'm the guy that Ninong is refering to. The BH stand for Base Horizontal. The important thing is that your bulb has the DL(daylight) designation as well, as these are specifically designed for aquarium use.
I believe the correct 400 watt bulbs are:
Clean ace: MT400DL/BH (400w)
Clean ace: MT400DL/BUD (400w)

HTH[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Mark,
Nice to meet ya [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I used to live in Morrow & Riverdale, GA and my dad just moved from Buckhead over to Peachtree City - small world.

Ninong,
What - that lil' tank of mine? [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I'm trying to convince the wife that the tank's too small so please refrain from using any large-sounding words in these posts! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

I would say that you almost have to add more than double the actinic supplementation to get the same effect. Like I said before, I used to have 5-250w MHs with 2-160w actinics and went to 4-400w MHs with 4-160w actinics and the tank is much more yellow. I may add two additional 400w MHs in the 12K range simply for a more blue coloration. I could get additional VHOs, I suppose (and less heat), but I would rather opt for the intensity and (hopefully) better coral coloration. I need to finish my "heat-issue solving" project before-hand [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Randy

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Come meet the gang!
http://www.homestead.com/reefengineer/homepage.html

Ninong,
I also think that BUD stands for Base Universal.
No idea on the structural differences b/n BH and BUD. The 250 watt DL/BH and regular BH were structurally different. Pics can be seen at my site at:
http://www.tidalblue.com/iwasaki.htm

Reef Engineer,

It is a small world indeed. I just moved to Dunwoody this last Feb. from Colorado(where I spent the last five years). Before Colorado I lived in Edmonton, Alberta. What's even funnier is that I am originally from the Netherlands. I guess I'm not native to anywhere.[img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Oh well. For now I'm an Atlantan.[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Don't ask me about moving my reef tank, corals, live rock, fish from Boulder,CO to Atlanta. It sucked, but was worth it.

Randy ~

That's one of the issues with the 6500K Iwasaki lamps. Just about everybody says that the 400w size appears more yellow looking than the 250w size. Then there is the difference in appearance of the 250w size depending on which ballast is used. It seems to be whiter on MV ballasts (as recommended by Eye Corp.) or IceCap electronic ballasts as compared to regular MH ballasts.

That's one of the problems for someone with a relatively small tank (less than your gigantic tank)... if you try to move up from 250w 6500K Eye to 400w 6500K Eye, you need AT LEAST double the actinic supplementation to achieve the same overall appearance.


Markv ~

Does the "BUD" stand for "base universal"? I know "BV" is base vertical, right? Is there any physical difference in the construction of the "BH" and "BUD" bulbs?

Thanks,

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ninong

Does that mean that the bulbs marked BH only are ont 6500K, and ones marked DL are 6500K.

What is the color temp of the BH bulb?

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

Jamey,

Don't tell me that's why your tank looks CHARTREUSE!

They MUST have the DL in the designation to be the 6500K lamps that Iwasaki designed for use with aquariums. Actually, the BH just indicates the burning position of the bulb--base horizontal. Otherwise, I think you can only use 'em for parking lots. [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] To clarify: according to Eye Corp. only the 6500K bulbs that contain DL in the code are "full spectrum lights specifically designed for aquariums." The other 6500K bulbs are NOT designed for aquariums according to Iwasaki.

Ninong [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[This message has been edited by Ninong (edited 01-08-2001).]

Here's what I don't understand though:

6500k is supposed to be the color of the light emitted by the lamp. 6500k is supposed to be 6500k. I could understand it if the intensity (lumen output) was different but we're talking about the specific color. How on earth could EYE produce two 6500k lamps that are totally different colors? It's analogous to someone going to a car dealership and asking for a white BMW Z3. Then when the car shows up it's yellow. The guy asks why his car is yellow and not white like he asked for. Then the car salesman looks on the specs thing on the inside of the door and says "well it says it's white." Then upon calling BMW, the car salesman is told that "Only the white cars sold for the movies are white. The white cars sold to the public aren't white."

Ummm....why?

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Check out my reef at: http://www.canadianreef.cjb.net/

Canadian ~

The problem is that the manufacturers select the Kelvin temperature that they want to call their lamps. It is not based on any actual measurement. Recall that the same fluorescent lamps that are today called 10,000K were called I believe 5,500K less than two years ago.

Did you ever wonder why some 10,000K metal halide lamps are much bluer than other 10,000K metal halide lamps. For example, the Ushio 10,000K lamp is whiter than the AB 10000 lamp, which seems a bit bluer. According to the official answer I received from AB-Aqualine, they have retained the "brand name" AB 10000 for their lamp which has an actual Kelvin temperature of 13,000K.

And what about the old version of the Coralife 10,000K that was sometimes bluer than most 20,000K lamps; of course, this lamp changed colors continuously over its short life span. The manufacturer chooses a Kelvin temperature that they think corresponds to the color of their lamps as compared to a perfect radiator, and then they ask the marketing department for "approval."

In the testing that Sanjay Joshi did of the 250w metal halide bulbs, the 250w 6500K Iwasaki bulb tested much higher than 6500K; I believe it was between 7800K - 8400K depending on the stage of breakin.

Anyway, here are some interesting pictures for you. All of the metal halide lamps in all of these pictures are 6500K Iwasaki lamps.

Tank lit with 250w 6500K Iwasaki MT250DL/BH


Same tank lit with 250w 6500K MT250BH on left, MT250DL/BH on right


Tank lit with 3x400w 6500K Iwasaki MT400BH + 2x110w VHO Actinics


It is easy to see that Iwasaki makes two metal halide lamps that are called 6500K, yet only the ones that have "DL" in the product code are reasonably white looking, the ones without the "DL" are noticeably yellowish/greenish looking.

But according to Iwasaki they are both the exact same Kelvin temperature. Which, of course, is a ridiculous assertion.

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]


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Irrational Exuberance!

Can't resist any topic related to 6500k Iwasak's [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img]

This tank is light with 2-250w Iwasaki's on IC's, 1-400w Iwasaki on a Blueline and 220w of URI-VHO Actinic on a IC.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

[This message has been edited by bajathree (edited 01-09-2001).]

Baja ~

Do me a favor, check you Iwasaki bulbs to see if they have the "DL" in their code. One of the vendors just told the owner of a tank lit by three 400w 6500K Iwasaki's that do not have "DL" as part of their name--whose tank looks CHARTREUSE--that Iwasaki does NOT make a 400w 6500K bulb with the "DL" designation.

So, we know for a fact that they do make the 250w size with the "DL" in the name, but what about the 400w size? Please check yours out and post here so we can get back to "someone" with the info.

Thanks,

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

Ok Nining, now that I am blind, this is what I have. My 250's are MT250DL, my 400 is MT400DL/BH. So the 400w do come with the DL designation. All these bulbs were purchased from Champion.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

Hi Baja ~

Thanks for going to all that trouble for us. I hope you recover your eyesight soon. [img]/ubb/eek3.gif[/img]

Do you want to hear something funny? The owner of the tank in the pic I posted that looks "chartreuse" with the 3x400w 6500K Iwasaki MT400BH bulbs contacted the vendor this morning and received an e-mail reply from the owner stating that Iwasaki does NOT make a 400w 6500K MT400DL/BH bulb. According to the owner, in the 400w size Iwasaki makes only an MT400BH and an MT400BUD.

The funny thing is that you purchased your MT400DL/BH bulb from the exact same person who e-mailed the other hobbyist this morning saying that no such bulb exists.

N I N [img]/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] N G



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Irrational Exuberance!

Well it does exist and if needed feel free to have anyone in question contact me. I know for sure that I purchased this bulb from Champion. I phoned the order in and remember talking to them about the Iwasaki on the phone. I ordered the BlueLine ballast and the Iwasaki for it at the same time. I am die hard Iwasaki believer. I have had extremely good results with this bulb. I have also had some heated debates about them too. With two versions floating around, I now know why. You can clearly see from the previous PIX I posted why I have often jumped so quick to defend them from being yellow.

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We as hobbyists need to respect the reef, educate and learn so that it will live on for all to enjoy.
bajathree
Come Dive Into
Baja Reef

Just to throw some fuel on the fire [img]/ubb/lol.gif[/img] I would suggest that everyone who has or is interested in using Iwaski bulbs read the lighting article in Marine Fish and Reef 2001 annual. They compare the electronic ballasts to MV and standard magnetic ballasts. You may be VERY suprised about the results. Just a hint more doesnt mean better. [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

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Paul C
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Einstein

Well here is where I stand. I have 3 Iwasaki MT400BH bulbs over my tank. I was sent the wrong bulbs from the supplier and according to them they were sent the wrong bulbs as well. We are working on that issue!

I have spoken with Iwasaki(Eye Lighting) and they are wonderful. The MT400BH bulbs is a standard MH bulb. The color temp is around 4200K and the CRI is around 70. It is not an Aquarium bulb and it is not sold by them as an aquarium bulb. Their aquarium bulbs are MT250BH/DL or MT400BH/DL if it does not have DL on it it's not an aquarium bulb, or as they say a "high color rendition" bulb.

I will fill you in on any developments!!!

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF

Let me say this in defense of Perry at Champion. We all have been very confused about this problem with the bulbs and I think that Perry was in the same boat we were this morning. It took a while but this afternoon we got it stright as to what bulbs are what and what happen with my order. It took a couple calls to Iwasaki one by him and one by me but we now understand what bulbs we should have.

I have always been treated good by Perry, and I honestly think this was a pure mix up in some order that they recieved.

My problem is now the bulbs are one year old. In fact their bithday is tommorrow. Perry only wanted to give me a small discount on some new Iwasaki bulbs. I felt I shouls have them replaced. He reasoned that they were one year old and needed to be replaced anyway. I agreed but felt that I should have been sent the correct bulbs in the first place!
What do you think would be fair?

I was offered the blueline bulbs ant a good price and ordered them but I really want Iwasaki I know they have the best PAR and that's what I want!

What should I do?

Jamey[img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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"If at first you don't succeed, well so much for skydiving"

Check out my reef at REAL BIG FISH'S REEF