HQI purchase ?'s

[ronjon]

i am getting ready to make a lighting purchase for my tank. i have heard many good things about the hqi mh lights and i want to know where the best place to purchase them would be. i called hamilton but i couldn't seem to get a straight answer out of them regarding the price. i want 2x250 HQI w/ 2x NO for actinic supplimentation. i would like something that is astheticly pleasing to the eye and won't shoot a hole through my wallet. i am willing to consiser a retro if this ballasts and cables will dress up nicely. that is to say, if i can make teh hardware look like it was professionally installed. i was thinking somewhere in the $600 price range +/- an few bucks for an already made set up. the guy at hamilton said that they would only be able to provide 20k HQI bulbs and this did seem right to me. because of this i now turn to my fellow reefers in the hope that i might receive some guidance in this important purchasing decision. thanks for any help you can send my way.

regards,
ronjon

note: i have been looking at the Aqualine Buschke HQI MH Fixtures. can someone with experience with these fixtures comment on them please. i am looking at the AquaSunlight Future and the Classic as well. mainly due to the fact that i can get actinc supplimentation [2x30 aco3] in addition to the mh that comes with it. these light are a bit more exspensive than what i want to pay but if i can find them for a good price i would be willing to spend the extra cash.

Ninong,

i have looked at some of the places that offer the product that you have suggested. to my surprise the prices go up considerably with the addition of 2x30 watt pc's. in fact it almost doubles the price. what is your oppinion of this? $700 more for ps's and a moon light!?!?! i can't understand how they could ask so much more for the addition of these 2 small bulbs. granted, i am concerned with the asthetics of the tank and would like to keep everything in one fixture. maybe they know this and that's why they want to charge so much more. these light fixtures are some of the must beautiful i have seen. very artsy fartsy and i love the look. i would hate to have to cover them or hang an "ugly fixture" next to them for actinic suplimentation. i'm willing to pay to play but i don't want to pay any more than is absolutely necessary. i have also noted that the future and the classic only come in the 150w range and not the 250 w. am i mistaken?

dOOd,

ronjon

[ronjon]

doOds,

thanks so much for your response to my post. i am certainly willing to pay more if i can get all the features that i want. i like having the PCs because of the dusk to dawn ability as well as the fact that it highlights the flourescent qualities of the animals in my tank. i also didn't want to have the mh come on with out any warning to the animals. i know that i wouldn't want someone waking me up in the morning with just mh. yes, i does seem that i have gotten the run around regarding my lighting options. up until now that is. as far as pricing is concerned, does 1300+ seem to be about the right price range for the aquasunlight future? would this price include the computer contoller that you mentioned earlier? how much mor does the computer add to the cost. thanks again for all you help Ninong.


Regards,

ronjon

[This message has been edited by ronjon (edited 04-21-2001).]

[Ninong]

It is a sad fact of life that some of the employees at some of the online vendors are just like most of the employees at most of the LFS, they cannot be relied upon to provide accurate, unbiased information. You need to do your own research before talking to them or you could be misled.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ninong]

I have seen the Aquasunlight Future priced at exactly $100 more than the Aquasunlight Classic. The Classic was eleven hundred something and the Future was a hundred bucks more. Not sure if that includes the computer controller or not. Besides, their controller is not nearly as good as Giesemann's. I believe it only controls the moonlight, and only intensity to mimic moon phases. I don't believe it adjusts for accurate moon rise and moon set. But I'm not really sure on that point, so don't hold me to it. (P.S. - I just looked it up in the catalogue: "The basic equipment of the Aquasunlight does not include any control device. The 3 output channels can be controlled with standard timers. As an option the lights can be equipped with a Light Computer. With this computer the two main channels (metal halide and fluorescent tubes) and the moonlight can be controlled precisely. The moonlight can be varied. Also the light intensity varies according to the cycles of natural moon phases - a perfect simulation."

I thought the Aquasunlight Future was a great looking fixture but it won't fit into my available space so I didn't do much research on it. You realize, of course, that it measures 140x60cm (55.1"x23.6")... what size is your tank? That fixture is designed to be used over either a 4-ft tank or a 5-ft tank... that's why the HQI lamps are slide adjustable from the outside top of the fixture.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Jakedad]

Just to help out here...Based on Ninongs input on another thread, I too have grown interested in the Aqualine products. I took Ninongs advise and went to CustomAquatics.com and talked with Craig (I think). He did know alot about the product but gave me the phone number of the Distributor in Houston (The Woodlands)for the questions he couldnt answer. I called them and they were very helpful so you might want to try that route. I would give you the phone number but its at my office. I can send it to you Monday if you are interested. Just a note: CustomA said all orders are drop shipped from the Houston site and the guy there said they have all of the fixtures in stock. Also, CustomA was quite a bit cheaper than Champion.

Ninong, it looks like I am going to go with the 72" 3x250 with PC's. The Aquaspacelite. Since you have been so helpful with this I thought you might be able to give me some suggestions on how to sell this to the wife...LOL You getting your commissions yet?

[ronjon]

jakedad,

yes indeed!! i am interested in that number. feel free to email it to me directly or post it here for all to see. champions prices have admittedly scared me a bit. how much better are customA prices? 10 % maybe? anyhoo, thnaks again for your help.

DOOd,
ronjon

[Jakedad]

Ronjon, Here is the number off of the Aqualine web site. I have a toll free number I will email you Monday if you want to wait.

Aqua Medic Sales Office USA
Jackie Gollihear
The Woodlands / Texas USA
Phone: (+1) 281 4190086
Fax: (+1) 281 4190502

Champion's price was $1259 and CA was $1099.

Hey, didnt see before, you are located in Dallas!!! Im in Arlington, maybe we can get a better deal if we work together on this! Im looking at ordering sometime next week...Send me an email and I can call you..

[ronjon]

actually i'm in fort worth. dallas is so much more metropolitan that i figure why force people into wondering, "where the hell is FW?" LOL. yeah, i am prepared to order, especially if we can get a better price if ordered at the same time. do you use MSN instant messaging by any chance? it requires a hotmail account. let me know if you do, otherwise i'l email you my number.

regards,
ronjon

[Jakedad]

You have mail

[Ninong]

Hey guys! I believe the prices that jakedad just posted are for the 6-ft Aquaspacelight fixture with PC actinics. I believe ronjon is looking for the 4-ft fixture, right? So, it will be cheaper.

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[ronjon]

that's exactly right. at this rate i'm thinking i could actually begin to afford some of their more complete lighting systems. i'm getting very excited about this. i think i'll go take a shower.. haha.

ronjon

[Ninong]

Originally posted by Jakedad:

I thought you might be able to give me some suggestions on how to sell this to the wife...LOL

Tell her you need to buy this light fixture or all the little fishies will die! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] But first, it would help if you asked her if she had any more little fixing-up projects or painting she needed you to do around the house because her suggestions were always so much better than anything you would have thought of on your own. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]


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Irrational Exuberance!

[ronjon]

Originally posted by Ninong:

Tell her you need to buy this light fixture or all the little fishies will die! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] But first, it would help if you asked her if she had any more little fixing-up projects or painting she needed you to do around the house because her suggestions were always so much better than anything you would have thought of on your own. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

sounds to me like you have some experience in this area.
*ronjon gets his notepad out* haha

ronjon

[/B]

[Jakedad]

Ninong,
You posted while I was out shopping for my wife a new ironing board and one of them newfangled irons,,,you know the new type that have steam??? You think that will work instead of offering up carte blanche on the honey dew list? I like the one about keeping all of the fishies from dyin...course that puts alot of pressure on me....and come to think of it, I used that one to replace the SeaClone and Rio pumps.

[Ninong]

Yeah, but in the case of the Rio pumps it was the truth! [img]/ubb/eek.gif[/img]

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ninong]

ronjon ~

Yep, you are confused about several points right now, but not about the fact that Hamilton is not a good way to go on this.

OK, where to start. You mentioned 30w PCs. You are confused on that point. The 30-watt actinics they are talking about are 36" long normal output actinic fluorescent lamps. And yes, the Aquasunlight Classic and Aquasunlight Future fixtures are the most expensive that AB-Aqualine makes, especially if you go for computer controls. The Aquasunlight fixtures allow the HQI lamps to be moved from the outside top of the fixture--tricky, but probably not necessary. They also have 30w NO actinic fluorescents and a moonlight that can be controlled by their computer (very expensive). www.ab-aqualine.de

Another point of confusion: all of the AB-Aqualine fixtures actually ARE available with either 150w or 250w HQI lamps.

The Aquastarlight Future comes with HQI plus moonlight, but no actinics of any kind. The moonlight is an option.

The Aquaspacelight comes with HQI plus 24w Osram PC actinics, but no moonlight of any kind. The PCs are an option. A 4-ft fixture would have 2x24w PCs mounted in the center between the two HQI lamps. A 6-ft fixture would have a total of 4x24w PCs (two 24w PCs in each of the spaces between the three HQI lamps).

Another member of this board (Susan) just ordered the 4-ft Aquastarlight Future with 2x250w HQI lamps plus 25w blue incandescent moonlight from Custom Aquatics for only $699 plus $20 shpg. You would probably be more interested in the 4-ft Aquaspacelight fixture with 2x250w HQI lamps plus 2x24w Osram actinic PCs (you could always get a separate moonlight all by itself and mount it somewhere appropriate over the tank later on). The Aquaspacelight with PCs probably runs about a hundred bucks or so more than the Aquastarlight Future.

The moonlight in the Aquastarlight is on a separate power cord. The PCs in the Aquaspacelight are on a separate power cord. This allows for connection to separate timers or controllers.

Be careful that you don't let an employee at one of the online vendors tell you what is, or is not, available. What they really mean is "this is what I have available in stock on my stock list right now and I couldn't care less about ordering anything different for you at the moment."

The AB-Aqualine fixtures are very nice. The finish is much nicer than CSL or Hamilton. They are also very heavy because the ballasts are enclosed in the fixture. My 4-ft fixture weighs 35 lbs. They come with steel cables and fittings for suspension. They should be suspended at least 8" above the water. If you try to use a canopy, it would have to have a mostly open top and cutouts at either end where the fixture's ventilation outlets are, and you would probably need a fan (or fans) in the the canopy.

Giesemann also makes some very nice fixtures that are even superior to the AB-Aqualine fixtures but the price is astronomical!!! www.giesemann.de (Giesemann still hasn't finished the English version, so you have to go with the German version and use a translator program.)

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

P.S. - I just realized this was your first post on the board. Welcome to Reefland! [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

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Irrational Exuberance!

[Macimage]

I also am considering ordering the Aquaspacelite with the pc's. However, I am curious as to whether the 4 24 watt pc's will be enough on a 250 gallon tank?? Most larger tanks have several of the 96 watt actinics running the length of the tank. Even my 55 gallon has actinics the full length. Do you all think that the 2 sets of 2 24 watt pc's will adequately light a 6' long tank??

Has anyone seen them???

Thanks, Joyce

[ronjon]

macimage,

i personally couldn't tell you because i haven't seen one
up and running to know. i was curious about this as well. i was even considering stepping up to the aquasunlight classic as it comes with 2x 36" 30w actinic bulbs. thing is, ab aqaualines site shows that the spacelight has the option for a 55w actinic. when i called customaquatics, they said that 55w PC is an option that is only available to the european market. oh well, my fixture is on the way just the same.

good luck,
rj

[This message has been edited by ronjon (edited 04-25-2001).]

[Ninong]

Hi Joyce ~

Two of the members of the board just ordered Aquaspacelight fixtures yesterday from Custom Aquatic (one 4-ft and one 6-ft). They got a very good deal on them. [img]/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

I wondered the same thing about the PCs. As it turned out, I ended up getting the Aquastarlight Future fixture with HQI lamps plus moonlight. I have another fixture with PC actinics that I will be using with my Aquastarlight Future.

I do know that the 250w HQI double-ended lamps that are included in that fixture are AB 10000 lamps which, according to the manufacturer, are actually 13,000K color temperature. According to PerryinCA who has tested both the Ushio/BLV version and the AB version of the 250w HQI double ended lamps, the AB version is just barely a tiny bit more bluish-white than the Ushio/BLV. The Ushio/BLV 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamp was the one that Sanjay tested as 11,723K a couple of years back.

My take on that question is that the two sets of 2x24w Osram blue PCs would be sufficient to provide a gentle transition (dawn/dusk) between full power of the HQI and full off. I believe that it probably IS sufficient to give the overall appearance of the tank a slight bluish tint with the HQI lamps on. The biggest difference would be in comparing a 6-ft tank lit with only the 4x24w Osram blue PCs with a 6-ft tank lit with a bunch of URI Super Actinic VHOs. I believe what the Germans are saying is that their 250w HQI double-ended lamps do not really need supplementation to look nice.

Unless you are comparing against 400w 6500K Iwasaki lamps, the three 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps will give you more PPFD than 1200 watts worth of any other metal halide lamps. For most people, that should be sufficient light over even a 250-gal tank. I realize the watts per gallon thing may not agree with that statement and I am sure that there are some folks who would want 2000 watts over that size tank. You have to draw the line somewhere. I decided that I was going to be happy with 250w HQI double-ended lamps and not have to get into the problems associated with 400w lamps... like more heat from both the lamps and the ballasts, to say nothing of the problem of how many VHO actinics does it take to "fix" the color of the 6500K Iwasaki lamps. And, of course, folks in California right now are very sensitive to the difference in power consumption between 250w and 400w lamps.

Regards,

Ninong [img]/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

P.S. - Did you go to Monterey earlier this month?



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Irrational Exuberance!

[Ninong]

Originally posted by ronjon:

when i called customaquatics, they said that 55w PC is an option that is only available to the european market. oh well, my fixture is on the way just the same.

That might be confusing. Let me explain. AB-Aqualine does not use 55w PCs for actinic supplementation with HQI lamps on any fixtures, even for the European market. They do make the Aquaspacelight fixtures with just 55w PCs (no HQI at all) with either white or blue PCs, but all of the Aquaspacelight fixtures that have HQI lamps come with 24w PCs as an option. And they also offer the Aquastarlight Classic with just PCs, but no HQI lamps, for someone who wants to use two Aquastarlight Classic fixtures--one with PC actinics and one with HQI lamps.

Their Aquasunlight fixtures use 30w normal output actinic fluorescents for actinic supplementation.
www.ab-aqualine.de

Ninong [img]/ubb/smile.gif[/img]


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Irrational Exuberance!