Manifolds & Flow rate dynamics & AM3000

[Ironreef]

This is what makes the pump good= 1 1/2 pipe get alot of flow . If thats to much for your needs be creative and restrict it a little ,back it off but it still will be better than most pumps= cheap to run,quiet and later if you need more spend a few $0.01 and redue the plumbing

[Rin]

Finally, I've read to the end of this thread. *whew*

I may have missed a couple of things through all the friendly bantering. But I think the basic question is how come we get less head pressure through these manifolds of smaller pipes.

First, to sort of answer Organicreefer's question about flow--here is the approximation that I use:

The change in pipe dia is equal to the change in volumetric flow squared (assuming linear velocity is unchanged). Paul hit on it when he talked about the AREA of a pipe rather than it's diameter.

When calculating head pressure on a manifold. Each port is calculated separately. That is, head pressure from the pump would be equal at all ports if the manifold were horizontal. Vertical manifolds start with the pressure losses at the level of the port--this is why you need an even number of ports--it really helps with balancing the system.

Total approx head pressure can be calculated by the following:

1/total= 1/port 1 + 1/port2 + 1/port3 + etc....

BTW, too little head pressure can be just as bad as too much. The best thing to do is to get a pump curve (from the manufacturer) for the pump and design your system around the pump curve.

[BigLar]

It would be nice if Dolphin would give us designs of the "best" way to plumb this pump in a closed-loop!

[Ltspd]

Dolphin sells a manifold that attaches to the pump itself, that if one looked at it, you could logically assume that it were intended for a manifold.

Here again, Area plays into the equation.

[organicreefer]

big lar ,have you read dolphins plumbing page?its all right there use 1.5 inch pipes,don not reduce below one inch ,reduce at the last possible point= the best way

[golfish]

use 1.5 inch pipes,don not reduce below one inch ,reduce at the last possible point= the best way

Kind of conflicting isn't it? Why do they sell 3/4" manifolds that attach to the pumps output?

[wastedincome420]

Thats what I said
But the quote that organic posted from dolphin is ALL TRUE. It's "Dolphins" reply to "my" e-mail to them;)
I dont get it either

[golfish]

So this leads me to think that Dolphin should stick to building pumps and let the pros figure out the plumbing

[Ltspd]

Guys, please refer to AREA.

If you go from 1-1/2 to 1" and thats it then you lose 44%.

Area of 1-1/2 pipe = 1.767 sq in

Area of 1" pipe = .78 sq in

Take .78 / 1.767 and multiply by 100 and you get 44.3%


This is what I have been saying since the first thread, but it seems to be ignored.

[wastedincome420]

That CAN be very TRUE
I mean (I dont have one YET) EVERY one I know that use a am3000 says that they are very powerful, and whos going plumb it in ONE 1 1/2" return ??You have to split for something right???
AHHHHH I dont know!?!?!?!??!?

[Ltspd]

Guys, I have a am3000 plumbed with 1-1/2 pipe to my manifold that breaks it into (4)3/4" lines. I can stick my hand in front of any of those lines inside the tank and feel the pressure.



My AREA"s equall out.

[organicreefer]

ltspd,im sure you get decnt flow out of youre manifold,but an ampmaster capable of more than you give it credit for,after all ,you dont have the other way in front of you to compare;)
did you guys read the emails from dolphin?????dont you think they have tested their pumps????i thought this was long over with ,some people just dont want to hear certain things i guess....im done with this subject........

[organicreefer]

one last thing the reason they sell a manifold with 3/4 inch outlets is because alot/most of people with existing setups pretty much have 3/4 plumbing.it also applies to alot of skimmers etc.
its a simple way to multi task an ampmaster to an existing set-up....not the best way.

[golfish]

Guys, I have a am3000 plumbed with 1-1/2 pipe to my manifold that breaks it into (4)3/4" lines. I can stick my hand in front of any of those lines inside the tank and feel the pressure.

Paul,
I got it. I'm just not sure if Dolphin does Now, I know what their referring to, its just that they should make themselfs a little more clear.....

Oh yeah, I'm still not sure I agree with you I do know that I reduce down to 1" at a 1.5" tee and get more then enough flow from my two 1" Sea Swirls............that's really all that matters to me

[organicreefer]

Originally posted by organicreefer
directly from dolphin:

You will not loose pressure at the manifold, however when you enter the 3/4" plumbing your head pressure will increase quite a bit. For example, when plumbing a 180 with 2-3/4" returns + a seperate skimmer, the best way to plumb from the outlet of the pump is to use 1.5" out of the pump all the way to the return bulkheads & then reduce to 3/4" with a reducing bushing. As for the skimmer, tie into yout 1.5" line with a tee & a Ball valve to requlate flow & also reduce at the skimmer inlet. By plumbing this way your flow rates will be at least 25% higher than if you used a manifold & 3/4" plumbing to go to the return lines.

also from dolphin:

The people saying to run 1.5" to each sea swirl & spray bar are correct. This is
the way to get THE most flow, even though some people have plumbed other ways
(manifold) and it works for them personally. They are wasting a good portion of
what an Amp Master 3000 can produce in the way of MAXIMUM flow rates.
Tom Briscall Jr
VP Dolphin Aquarium
850-434-9880

[scubadude]

Check this out for calculations on friction loss...excellent point....And I think paul has done his math on this area....I think we all agree that we are gonna lose some by reduction ....but if there is an effecient way to do multiple outlets off of a AM3000 its with a manifold with the correct calculations in place....heres the link to figure your Friction Loss

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/flowchart.html