Power is getting me worried - powering MH, VHO, return pump, skimmer pump, heater....

Elmo18 · 04-30-2001, 11:12 PM

Okay, I'm just getting worried about total power when I have everything plugged in. I'll be using 2 X 250 WATT Iwasaki using ADVANCE transformer Co. ballast from marinedepot.com. I will also be running 4 VHO kit from lampsnow.com. Now, do you think it is safe to run this on a power switch running from one outlet? The reason is, I really don't want the circuit breaker to go off evertime i want to turn things on in my place. I'm not sure how many amps my room can handle, or is made to handle. I know I can run this computer, TV on, desklights on, all lights in my room on without any problems. Now the big test is if I can run my MH on , VHO on , return pump Iwaki on, Rio 800 for my Urchin C running, and powerheads and temperature power on.

Gosh, reefing takes a lot of work......sigh.

Regards,
Ilham

reichard · 05-01-2001, 04:45 AM

You'll want to use at least two separate circuits, and hopefully circuits that aren't controlled by a wall switch.

Most homes have outlets that are wired with 12/2 and 14/2 wiring. 12/2 can accomodate 20amps (20amps x 120volts = 2400volt-amps) and 14/2 15amps (15a x 120v = 1800va). However, you'll find 99% of the receptacles are only 15a variety, and switched circuits have a capacity of 80% of total. And all the circuits are limited by the circuit breaker that controls the circuit. 20a receptacles look different--one blade isn't a slot, it's a "T" turned on it's side, indicating a 20A receptacle. Even so, a 20A receptacle needs it's own dedicated circuit, otherwise it simply shares with other outlets and lights etc and you'll never get 20A out of it. I've seen 20A receptacles installed with 14/2 wiring (dangerous, only a 15a capacity) on to 20A breakers (FIRE!) or on 15A breakers (breaker will trip way sooner than 20A).

Some wall switches designed for lighting control are derated by 20% to 80% of the circuit's capacity. So, a 15A circuit gets derated to 80% or 12A. the only way to know is to turn the power off the the service panel, remove the switch from the wall, and read the info on the back of the unit. It may be 12A or 15A.

So, on the circuit that you're talking about, you'll have a maximum of 1800v-a to work with. To simplify, let's just call one volt-amp to be equivalent to 1 watt. 1800watts is a good amount of juice, however, it can get used up quick. It's usually unwise to run a circuit at flat-out maximum as conductors will heat up and drop the line voltage lower than 120v. And, if you add something additional, let's say you need to vaccuum, or a table lamp, work lamp, etc, temporarily, you may just trip your breaker. Or your circuit may work fine flat out for weeks/months, only for you to come home and find your tank is dark as the circuit breaker just gave up. (Federal Pacific service panels are crap and will cause you grief).

Anyway, look at all of the labels on your electrical stuff. There should be a rating in V-A (volt-amps) or W (watts). Fluorescent bulbs rated at 40W consume about 65-80W or more, so look for the rating on the equipment. YOur MH lighting is efficient, but a 2x250W is probably consuming 700W continuous, more at strike time. Your pump is probably 200-300W, and the heater is let's say 100W. That's already 1000W.

You should have a GFCI outlet on all of your aquarium stuff to prevent shock and for equipment protection. A tiny shock of 0.005A can kill a human by stopping the heart. If you don't have them, get an eletrician or a competent friend to install them for you. THey're inexpensive ($8 ). And saltwater really conducts eletricity!

------------------
--Reichard
"Too many sharks in the gene pool..."

jasonchi · 05-01-2001, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reichard:
You should have a GFCI outlet on all of your aquarium stuff to prevent shock and for equipment protection. A tiny shock of 0.005A can kill a human by stopping the heart. If you don't have them, get an eletrician or a competent friend to install them for you. THey're inexpensive ($8 ). And saltwater really conducts eletricity!

Where can I get the GFCI Outlet, I don't remember seeing it in HomeDepot. Thanks

Jason

------------------
Got my site up, please take a look:
http://communities.msn.ca/NatureReef

reichard · 05-01-2001, 04:41 PM

Yep. Home Depot and Lowes has them. They're the square "decora" style outlet. They're labelled "Shock Resistors" and sell for about $7-$10. If you still can't find them, grab a clerk if you can find one and ask for a GFCI receptacle. Not too hard to install but you've got to make certain your ground wire inside the box is wired correctly in your service panel. You can get an outlet tester for about $8 that looks like a fat 3-prong plug with no cord. It has indicator lights on in that light in a certain pattern when plugged into an outlet to diagnose common wiring problems or a correctly wired outlet. Good item to have at home.

The GFCI's now are usually the 20A variety for kitchens and baths. NEC (NAtional Electrical Code) currently recommends 20A feed thru type. If the outlet you're replacing is a 15A, and it probably is, you should first look for a 15A GFCI.

GFCI's will trip the circuit to stop damage to electrical equipment as well. This often happens if pump coils get damp/wet, etc.

------------------
--Reichard
"Too many sharks in the gene pool..."

Ironreef · 05-01-2001, 04:45 PM

depending on yor house you can have many circiuts on one. you need to find out or measure the current

blue · 05-01-2001, 05:49 PM

ELMO,
I was worried about the same thing that is why i have returned my MH and am using 4VHO only im just going to do a LPs/Softie tank. JMO
[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]Blue[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]

------------------
Think befor you speak or dont speak at all!!!

Elmo18 · 05-01-2001, 06:11 PM

Blue,

You're not using MH for your tank now? I think I'll stick this out and see if I cause any fires from the outlets....
Lets hope not.

Regards,
Ilham

myreef · 05-01-2001, 08:24 PM

When I designed my tank...I had dedicated power run to where my tank was going to be. They ran a new circuit and put in GFCI outlets for about $250. Was money well spent IMO. I would hate to have to think about my MH and all my other pumps, etc on the same circuit as some of my kitchen appliances....

------------------
My Reef
Calcium Reactors
myreef@aol.com

YoHo · 05-06-2001, 07:38 PM

I'm confused, why would metal Halides draw more then there rated wattage, besides at startup?

Personally, I find it slightly (not much) easier to check the listed Max current draw and startup current draw on the ballast. Each ballast is different in this respect (maybe why drawing more watts?)

I'm planning on running my 110gal on a 15 amp circuit that feeds the rest of the living room. 2x175 MH, 2x96 PC and 40 NO flor. plus a MAG 9.5, 2 200watt heaters, powerhead for skimmer (don't remember brand, off old tank) and possibly one other powerhead. currently have most of that connected without incident. Its an apartment unfortunatly, so I can't upgrade the wiring.

blue · 05-06-2001, 07:59 PM

Elmo,
Sorry for the late reply but no im afraid not im not using metal halide to many heat probes and electricity probs to worry about here in texas. I think i will have a nice VHO tank i will eventually go MH probably when i get my own place my parents want every thing to look all ppretty so kinda hard to do what you want.
[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]Blue[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]

------------------
Think befor you speak or dont speak at all!!!

Ironreef · 05-06-2001, 08:39 PM

The key is say 5amps for halides 3 amps for vho amp here amp ther then you have other thinggs running off that circit like ligths ect. its easy to vore heat the circiut and cause fire. maybe not today, maybe not tommorrow but when your drunk and in a deep sleep. See its not good to use to much power off one circit. I've had fire from this. tank ran for 5yrs then fire for alttle corrosion and overloading. It makes for a bad combo

Beth · 05-28-2001, 06:22 PM

I have 2 wall outlets that I can deadicate to tank, one is grounded with a GFI and the other is not grounded and, according to my electrician, can't be grounded---thus no GFI. The 2 outlets don't seem to be on the same circuit [at least when I tested them and turned my breaker switches off one outlet would go off while the other remainded on, so I'm assuming that means on different circuits, right?]

Now, I've seen extention cord type GFI's in hobby catelogs. Will this work in the non-grounded wall outlet and make that outlet GFI?

Sorry, but I'm a lighting and electical dummy [img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

04-30-2001, 11:12 PM	#1
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Power is getting me worried - powering MH, VHO, return pump, skimmer pump, heater.... Okay, I'm just getting worried about total power when I have everything plugged in. I'll be using 2 X 250 WATT Iwasaki using ADVANCE transformer Co. ballast from marinedepot.com. I will also be running 4 VHO kit from lampsnow.com. Now, do you think it is safe to run this on a power switch running from one outlet? The reason is, I really don't want the circuit breaker to go off evertime i want to turn things on in my place. I'm not sure how many amps my room can handle, or is made to handle. I know I can run this computer, TV on, desklights on, all lights in my room on without any problems. Now the big test is if I can run my MH on , VHO on , return pump Iwaki on, Rio 800 for my Urchin C running, and powerheads and temperature power on. Gosh, reefing takes a lot of work......sigh. Regards, Ilham

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05-01-2001, 04:45 AM	#2
reichard Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: (Historic) Wyoming PA Posts: 34	You'll want to use at least two separate circuits, and hopefully circuits that aren't controlled by a wall switch. Most homes have outlets that are wired with 12/2 and 14/2 wiring. 12/2 can accomodate 20amps (20amps x 120volts = 2400volt-amps) and 14/2 15amps (15a x 120v = 1800va). However, you'll find 99% of the receptacles are only 15a variety, and switched circuits have a capacity of 80% of total. And all the circuits are limited by the circuit breaker that controls the circuit. 20a receptacles look different--one blade isn't a slot, it's a "T" turned on it's side, indicating a 20A receptacle. Even so, a 20A receptacle needs it's own dedicated circuit, otherwise it simply shares with other outlets and lights etc and you'll never get 20A out of it. I've seen 20A receptacles installed with 14/2 wiring (dangerous, only a 15a capacity) on to 20A breakers (FIRE!) or on 15A breakers (breaker will trip way sooner than 20A). Some wall switches designed for lighting control are derated by 20% to 80% of the circuit's capacity. So, a 15A circuit gets derated to 80% or 12A. the only way to know is to turn the power off the the service panel, remove the switch from the wall, and read the info on the back of the unit. It may be 12A or 15A. So, on the circuit that you're talking about, you'll have a maximum of 1800v-a to work with. To simplify, let's just call one volt-amp to be equivalent to 1 watt. 1800watts is a good amount of juice, however, it can get used up quick. It's usually unwise to run a circuit at flat-out maximum as conductors will heat up and drop the line voltage lower than 120v. And, if you add something additional, let's say you need to vaccuum, or a table lamp, work lamp, etc, temporarily, you may just trip your breaker. Or your circuit may work fine flat out for weeks/months, only for you to come home and find your tank is dark as the circuit breaker just gave up. (Federal Pacific service panels are crap and will cause you grief). Anyway, look at all of the labels on your electrical stuff. There should be a rating in V-A (volt-amps) or W (watts). Fluorescent bulbs rated at 40W consume about 65-80W or more, so look for the rating on the equipment. YOur MH lighting is efficient, but a 2x250W is probably consuming 700W continuous, more at strike time. Your pump is probably 200-300W, and the heater is let's say 100W. That's already 1000W. You should have a GFCI outlet on all of your aquarium stuff to prevent shock and for equipment protection. A tiny shock of 0.005A can kill a human by stopping the heart. If you don't have them, get an eletrician or a competent friend to install them for you. THey're inexpensive ($8 ). And saltwater really conducts eletricity! ------------------ --Reichard "Too many sharks in the gene pool..."

05-01-2001, 04:41 PM	#4
reichard Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: (Historic) Wyoming PA Posts: 34	Yep. Home Depot and Lowes has them. They're the square "decora" style outlet. They're labelled "Shock Resistors" and sell for about $7-$10. If you still can't find them, grab a clerk if you can find one and ask for a GFCI receptacle. Not too hard to install but you've got to make certain your ground wire inside the box is wired correctly in your service panel. You can get an outlet tester for about $8 that looks like a fat 3-prong plug with no cord. It has indicator lights on in that light in a certain pattern when plugged into an outlet to diagnose common wiring problems or a correctly wired outlet. Good item to have at home. The GFCI's now are usually the 20A variety for kitchens and baths. NEC (NAtional Electrical Code) currently recommends 20A feed thru type. If the outlet you're replacing is a 15A, and it probably is, you should first look for a 15A GFCI. GFCI's will trip the circuit to stop damage to electrical equipment as well. This often happens if pump coils get damp/wet, etc. ------------------ --Reichard "Too many sharks in the gene pool..."

05-01-2001, 04:45 PM	#5
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	depending on yor house you can have many circiuts on one. you need to find out or measure the current

05-01-2001, 05:49 PM	#6
blue Mayor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denton,TX,USA Posts: 597	ELMO, I was worried about the same thing that is why i have returned my MH and am using 4VHO only im just going to do a LPs/Softie tank. JMO [img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]Blue[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img] ------------------ Think befor you speak or dont speak at all!!!

05-01-2001, 06:11 PM	#7
Elmo18 Governor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,514	Blue, You're not using MH for your tank now? I think I'll stick this out and see if I cause any fires from the outlets.... Lets hope not. Regards, Ilham

05-01-2001, 08:24 PM	#8
myreef Council Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Lawrenceville, GA, USA Posts: 373	When I designed my tank...I had dedicated power run to where my tank was going to be. They ran a new circuit and put in GFCI outlets for about $250. Was money well spent IMO. I would hate to have to think about my MH and all my other pumps, etc on the same circuit as some of my kitchen appliances.... ------------------ My Reef Calcium Reactors myreef@aol.com

05-06-2001, 07:38 PM	#9
YoHo Tenant Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: River Forest(soon to be Schaumburg) Il Posts: 89	I'm confused, why would metal Halides draw more then there rated wattage, besides at startup? Personally, I find it slightly (not much) easier to check the listed Max current draw and startup current draw on the ballast. Each ballast is different in this respect (maybe why drawing more watts?) I'm planning on running my 110gal on a 15 amp circuit that feeds the rest of the living room. 2x175 MH, 2x96 PC and 40 NO flor. plus a MAG 9.5, 2 200watt heaters, powerhead for skimmer (don't remember brand, off old tank) and possibly one other powerhead. currently have most of that connected without incident. Its an apartment unfortunatly, so I can't upgrade the wiring.

05-06-2001, 07:59 PM	#10
blue Mayor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denton,TX,USA Posts: 597	Elmo, Sorry for the late reply but no im afraid not im not using metal halide to many heat probes and electricity probs to worry about here in texas. I think i will have a nice VHO tank i will eventually go MH probably when i get my own place my parents want every thing to look all ppretty so kinda hard to do what you want. [img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img]Blue[img]/ubb/flames.gif[/img] ------------------ Think befor you speak or dont speak at all!!!

05-06-2001, 08:39 PM	#11
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	The key is say 5amps for halides 3 amps for vho amp here amp ther then you have other thinggs running off that circit like ligths ect. its easy to vore heat the circiut and cause fire. maybe not today, maybe not tommorrow but when your drunk and in a deep sleep. See its not good to use to much power off one circit. I've had fire from this. tank ran for 5yrs then fire for alttle corrosion and overloading. It makes for a bad combo

05-28-2001, 06:22 PM	#12
Beth Just Moved In Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 5	I have 2 wall outlets that I can deadicate to tank, one is grounded with a GFI and the other is not grounded and, according to my electrician, can't be grounded---thus no GFI. The 2 outlets don't seem to be on the same circuit [at least when I tested them and turned my breaker switches off one outlet would go off while the other remainded on, so I'm assuming that means on different circuits, right?] Now, I've seen extention cord type GFI's in hobby catelogs. Will this work in the non-grounded wall outlet and make that outlet GFI? Sorry, but I'm a lighting and electical dummy [img]/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

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