[KingMinnow]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this, and I've been reading, searching, and learning a lot. I have a 180 Gallon tank, 72" x 24" deep, and I need to put a light kit with it. Right now I have a few fish, and some live rock, but no top and no lights.

So here's the question. I'm about to drop $850 on a Hamilton 72" 3MH & Compacts Hood

Selected options:
Compact: 2x96w PC
Hood: Black Aluminum
Reflector: ElectroWhite
Halide: 175w 5500k
Ballast: Magnetic
Fans: Two
Compact Color: 7100k

So that's 2 175w 5500k's, 1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics. Is this a good setup? Will I be able to grow all types of coral, including some clams? Is $850 a good deal? Its from Aqua Direct. If anyone can think of a better setup for the money, please help!!

Thanks for your help,
King Minnow....

[Poseidon]

I would try to get 3 250W halides...

have you checked out Premium Aquatics? Maybe this one with 20K bulbs, then you wont need the actinics. It is a little more, but with such a LARGE purchase I would rather get it right the first time...

[Reefland]

I would definitely go with 250w over the 175's for the additional intensity.

[KingMinnow]

Originally Posted by Reefland

I would definitely go with 250w over the 175's for the additional intensity.

Good info, I was told that I wouldn't need the 250s because my tank is 22" or so from the top of the water to the sand. The 250s were recommended if the tank was 36" deep? is that true?

nick

[Poseidon]

Nope.

I have a 135 and the tank is 22" tall from top to bottom. I use the 250's just so I can keep whatever I want, whether it be Clam's SPS or Anemone's... Currently I have a mix of softies, LPS and SPS, but I am eleminating the softies and decreasing the LPS so I have room for more SPS, and after I take out my Odonus Niger I will add a clam or 2... Couldn't do that with the 175's...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

So here's the question. I'm about to drop $850 on a Hamilton 72" 3MH & Compacts Hood

Selected options:
Compact: 2x96w PC
Hood: Black Aluminum
Reflector: ElectroWhite
Halide: 175w 5500k
Ballast: Magnetic
Fans: Two
Compact Color: 7100k

So that's 2 175w 5500k's, 1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics. Is this a good setup? Will I be able to grow all types of coral, including some clams? Is $850 a good deal? Its from Aqua Direct. If anyone can think of a better setup for the money, please help!!

Hi King, welcome to Reefland!

I suggest you consider other fixtures besides the Hamilton. There are several different possibilities to choose from that I would consider a better product than the one you are looking at.

If you do decide to go with the Hamilton fixture, I would definitely recommend that you upgrade the metal halide lamps. In particular, I do NOT think that the 5500 Kelvin lamps are a good choice in any size given the other possibilities available. Some of the 175w 5500K metal halide lamps (Venture's, for example) provide only 1/3 the PAR of some of the 175w 10,000K metal halide lamps. You need to research the PAR output of the metal halide lamps that you are considering before making a purchase.

You say that the Hamilton fixture will have "1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics." That's confusing. If it's a 6' fixture, it should have either two or four PCs to supplement the three metal halides and 7100K is just the Kelvin designation used by certain manufacturers to describe their actinic PCs.

If you go with that fixture, change the 175w 5500K halide lamps to 175w 10,000K and make all of the PCs (two or four, whatever it comes with) actinic. If they are the 4-square prong design, they will probably be called 7100K. If they are the German style 4-in-a-row prong design, they will probably be called 03-actinic or something similar.

I think that for your particular tank, you should consider going with 250w halides instead of 175w but that's up to you and it really depends on what you intend keeping in your tank. And, again, be sure to check out the other fixtures that are on the market now. There are many high quality fixtures available at reasonable prices. This is an area where spending a couple hundred bucks more may be a VERY wise move.

Good luck,

[KingMinnow]

Thanks Ninong for the advice, to answer some of your questions,

The unit can come with either:
(2) 96w PCs : $819.89
(4) 55w Euros: $839.89
(6) 55w : $949.89
(4) 96w PCs : $989.89

I wanted to keep the costs down, so I chose the first option. The sales guys advised staying with the PCs because the Euros can be hard to find bulbs, more expensive and the PCs are much more common. Because i was trying to keep costs down, he suggested that I go with the 2 PCs. He suggested staying with the 5500k temp for the Halides. The 175w 10,000k halides were $175 more, and the 250w were $225 more!!

He did suggest I go with the 7100k for the PCs for the color. So I did that.

So based on your post, I think you are saying to spend the extra $200 or so and go with the 10ks for the Halides?

So in summary, I got 2 PCs at 7100k, and metal halides at 175w 5500k. Here's the link to the unit.
http://www.aquadirect.com/store/cust...?productid=793

What do you think?

Thanks for your help,
Nick

Originally Posted by Ninong

Hi King, welcome to Reefland!

I suggest you consider other fixtures besides the Hamilton. There are several different possibilities to choose from that I would consider a better product than the one you are looking at.

If you do decide to go with the Hamilton fixture, I would definitely recommend that you upgrade the metal halide lamps. In particular, I do NOT think that the 5500 Kelvin lamps are a good choice in any size given the other possibilities available. Some of the 175w 5500K metal halide lamps (Venture's, for example) provide only 1/3 the PAR of some of the 175w 10,000K metal halide lamps. You need to research the PAR output of the metal halide lamps that you are considering before making a purchase.

You say that the Hamilton fixture will have "1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics." That's confusing. If it's a 6' fixture, it should have either two or four PCs to supplement the three metal halides and 7100K is just the Kelvin designation used by certain manufacturers to describe their actinic PCs.

If you go with that fixture, change the 175w 5500K halide lamps to 175w 10,000K and make all of the PCs (two or four, whatever it comes with) actinic. If they are the 4-square prong design, they will probably be called 7100K. If they are the German style 4-in-a-row prong design, they will probably be called 03-actinic or something similar.

I think that for your particular tank, you should consider going with 250w halides instead of 175w but that's up to you and it really depends on what you intend keeping in your tank. And, again, be sure to check out the other fixtures that are on the market now. There are many high quality fixtures available at reasonable prices. This is an area where spending a couple hundred bucks more may be a VERY wise move.

Good luck,

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

Thanks Ninong for the advice, to answer some of your questions,

The unit can come with either:
(2) 96w PCs : $819.89
(4) 55w Euros: $839.89
(6) 55w : $949.89
(4) 96w PCs : $989.89

I wanted to keep the costs down, so I chose the first option. The sales guys advised staying with the PCs because the Euros can be hard to find bulbs, more expensive and the PCs are much more common. Because i was trying to keep costs down, he suggested that I go with the 2 PCs. He suggested staying with the 5500k temp for the Halides. The 175w 10,000k halides were $175 more, and the 250w were $225 more!!

He did suggest I go with the 7100k for the PCs for the color. So I did that.

So based on your post, I think you are saying to spend the extra $200 or so and go with the 10ks for the Halides?

So in summary, I got 2 PCs at 7100k, and metal halides at 175w 5500k. Here's the link to the unit.
http://www.aquadirect.com/store/cust...?productid=793

What do you think?

Thanks for your help,
Nick

I think two things:

(1) The "sales guy" is an IDIOT!

(2) You should have asked in the forum BEFORE you made your purchase.

What are "euros?" I have never heard that expression before except in reference to the European Union's currency.

Most people would NOT choose the "7100K" over the "03-actinic" type power compact fluorescents for actinic supplementation but that's more of a personal preference than anything else. The so-called "7100K" peak at 450 nm whereas the so-called "03-actinic" lamps peak at 420 nm.

No one in his right mind should recommend that the customer go with the cheapy 5500K halides; but now that you are stuck with them, what brand are they?

P.S. -- OK, I just followed your link to that vendor's website and noticed that they are using the expression "euro" for the German style PCs and "PC" for the Japanese style PCs. How confusing! So it looks like he sold you the Japanese style pins instead of the German style pins. It's all relative now since most of the "Japanese" lamps are made in China! If you had purchased what they call "euros," you would have gotten the better "03-actinic" PCs that peak at 420 nm. "Better" in this sense is relative.

Did you notice that they admit that the "10,000K halides are the MOST POPULAR?" There's a very BIG reason for that. It is incredible to me that he stuck you with 5500K halides. And I couldn't find the brand names for any of the lamps that they use in those Hamilton fixtures.

[Poseidon]

I would call them back and cancel/change the order ASAP!!! If they already shipped it, refuse shipment when it comes! The 5500K bulbs are going to look AWEFUL! They are way to YELLOW!! THink parking lot lights! I had a fixture with the "euro's" and it was no problem at all to find bulbs... Call a vendor with a better reputation!

[Ninong]

KingMinnow,

I hope you realize that we are NOT being critical of your judgment. We are just amazed at the stunning incompetence of the "sales guy" who gave you all that unbelievable advice.

For starters, Hamilton is NOT one of the better fixtures out there for the same amount of money. IMO, it is not even close to the quality of many other fixtures on the market for several reasons. And to add insult to injury, you had to get taken in by someone who either knows absolutely nothing or couldn't care less -- probably both!

If it is still possible, cancel your order!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

Thanks Ninong for the advice, to answer some of your questions,

The unit can come with either:
(2) 96w PCs : $819.89
(4) 55w Euros: $839.89
(6) 55w : $949.89
(4) 96w PCs : $989.89

I wanted to keep the costs down, so I chose the first option. The sales guys advised staying with the PCs because the Euros can be hard to find bulbs,

That is totally false! You can find PCs with the 4-in-a-row pin configuration just about anywhere. Originally the 4-square pin configuration PCs came from Japan and the 4-in-a-row pin configuration PCs came from Germany. Both styles are now made all over the place, especially China. Both styles are available at almost all online vendors in the U.S. If anything, the German-style PCs are more readily available because they are more popular. So the "sales guy" handed you a line here.

He suggested staying with the 5500k temp for the Halides. The 175w 10,000k halides were $175 more,

He's either a complete idiot or he was just trying to close the sale because he was afraid that you were balking at the price.

In this article by Dr. Sanjay Joshi, you will see that the Ushio 175w 10,000K metal halide lamps produce more than three times the PAR of the Venture 175w 5500K metal halide lamps: http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/...omparison.html

The last time I heard, Hamilton was using Venture 5500K halides and Ushio 10,000K halides in the 175w size. Actually their Ushio halides are branded "Hamilton" but they are manufactured by BLV (a wholly owned subsidiary of Ushio of Japan) at their plant just outside Munich, Germany. I don't know if that's still true today or not but it was true the last time I checked a couple of years back.

He did suggest I go with the 7100k for the PCs for the color. So I did that.

That's odd because most people object to the color of the 7100K when compared to the so-called "euros." The 03-actinic PCs will fluoresce corals better than the 7100K PCs. Both of those names are pulled out of a hat. The 7100K means absolutely nothing (as noted on your vendor's website) and the 03 designation refers to the original product code number for the first actinic type fluorescent lamps developed by Philips a long time ago.

[Poseidon]

After looking at the fixture in the OEM configuration, it looks like they are trying to sell you a car, but the ENGINE is 3 hp go cart one. If you want to actually be able to drive this car, you have to pend an extra $500!!! YIKES! I put the options together to include 3 250 watt 10K bulbs and an electronic ballast. New price $1317.01!!! I would shop somewhere else!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

Thanks Ninong for the advice, to answer some of your questions,

The unit can come with either:
(2) 96w PCs : $819.89
(4) 55w Euros: $839.89
(6) 55w : $949.89
(4) 96w PCs : $989.89

I wanted to keep the costs down, so I chose the first option.

Let me make sure I have the numbers right. You paid $819.89 for a 48" long Hamilton fixture with two 175w 5500K halides and two 96w PCs, right?

I don't care for Hamilton fixtures myself but I noticed when browsing through some of Reefland's sponsors that Custom Aquatic sells a 48" long Hamilton fixture with two 250w 10,000K halides and two 110w VHO actinics for a lot less than that and they will give you an extra 5% off if you tell them you're a member of Reefland: http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/index.asp

LT-HMA4A2502VHO

48 inch Hamilton Deluxe dual 250 watt 10K Metal Halide WITH dual 110 watt VHO tr...more

view similar products

SALE PRICE $619.99

[Ninong]

I just noticed that Custom Aquatic says that the Hamilton fixture I mention in the above post is on backorder right now but it appears that they also sell the exact same fixture that you ordered -- 48" Hamilton with two 175w halides and two 96w PCs for only $599.99 and that's with the better 10,000K halide lamps!!!

http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...dexID=lt-mh-m4

Plus an additional 5% off if you tell them you're a member of Reefland!

Check out all those super cool Aqua-Medic fixtures listed on that same page. All of those fixtures are cheaper than what you paid for your Hamilton and they are of far superior quality.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

Hey guys,

I'm new to this, and I've been reading, searching, and learning a lot. I have a 180 Gallon tank, 72" x 24" deep, and I need to put a light kit with it. Right now I have a few fish, and some live rock, but no top and no lights.

So here's the question. I'm about to drop $850 on a Hamilton 72" 3MH & Compacts Hood

Selected options:
Compact: 2x96w PC
Hood: Black Aluminum
Reflector: ElectroWhite
Halide: 175w 5500k
Ballast: Magnetic
Fans: Two
Compact Color: 7100k

So that's 2 175w 5500k's, 1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics. Is this a good setup? Will I be able to grow all types of coral, including some clams? Is $850 a good deal? Its from Aqua Direct. If anyone can think of a better setup for the money, please help!!

Thanks for your help,
King Minnow....

OK, here's where all the confusion started. You wrote in this post that you are getting only two 175w 5500K halides, so I assumed you were getting a 48" fixture. There are no 7100K halides; that designation refers to PC fluorescents only.

Obviously, since your tank is 72" long, you are getting a 72" fixture with three 175w 5500K halides.

I'll go back and re-check the other website to see what they offer in 72" fixtures.

I just checked and it looks like Custom Aquatic offers the same Hamilton fixture that I think you ordered for $719.99 (less additional 5% Reefland discount) in either the three 175w 5500K halides plus two 96w PCs or the three 175w 5500K halides plus four 55w PCs. Same price whether you go with two 96w PCs or four 55w PCs. Either way it's not a good fixture with those 175w 5500K halides in there. http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...dexid=lt-mh-m6

Check out your other options. Besides all the nice fixtures that Aqua-Medic offers, there are some nice fixtures from Sunlight Supply and from PFO/Ice-Cap to consider. All of those are much better quality than the Hamilton fixtures and have better reflectors, etc.

[KingMinnow]

DAMN, thanks for all the replies, GOOD NEWS is that I haven't ordered anything yet. I'm going to have to take some time to read all of your posts, and then hopefully I'll come back with a new "wish list" of lighting.

Thanks for the info!! Glad I didn't make a $1000 mistake!

Nick

Originally Posted by Ninong

OK, here's where all the confusion started. You wrote in this post that you are getting only two 175w 5500K halides, so I assumed you were getting a 48" fixture. There are no 7100K halides; that designation refers to PC fluorescents only.

Obviously, since your tank is 72" long, you are getting a 72" fixture with three 175w 5500K halides.

I'll go back and re-check the other website to see what they offer in 72" fixtures.

I just checked and it looks like Custom Aquatic offers the same Hamilton fixture that I think you ordered for $719.99 (less additional 5% Reefland discount) in either the three 175w 5500K halides plus two 96w PCs or the three 175w 5500K halides plus four 55w PCs. Same price whether you go with two 96w PCs or four 55w PCs. Either way it's not a good fixture with those 175w 5500K halides in there. http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...dexid=lt-mh-m6

Check out your other options. Besides all the nice fixtures that Aqua-Medic offers, there are some nice fixtures from Sunlight Supply and from PFO/Ice-Cap to consider. All of those are much better quality than the Hamilton fixtures and have better reflectors, etc.

[Ninong]

Make sure you know what sort of a tank you want to run before choosing your lighting. In particular, decide if you want an open-top tank with a suspended fixture or a fully enclosed canopy top with DIY lamps mounted inside the canopy. Both have advandages and disadvantages.

Based on your previous choice, it appears that you have already decided on an open-top tank with a suspended fixture. Therefore your next step is to decide on the selection of metal halide lamps and whether or not to supplement them, and, if so, with what.

You can get test results on many metal halide lamps from Sanjay's new forum: http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm

There are many factors to consider when choosing a suspended fixture. You need to decide if you want the ballasts onboard the fixture (making it very heavy and very hot) or if you want separate remote ballasts. You need to decide between 250w and 400w halide lamps (for a 180-gal tank, 250w lamps would be great, 400w lamps would be a bit much but are popular with many hobbyists and anything less than 250w lamps would place more constraints on what you could keep). Once you decide on the wattage of the halide lamps, you need to decide what sort of supplementation you want, if any. You could supplement with T5 actinics, VHO actinics, NO (normal output) actinics, PC actinics or with 20,000K halides between your main halides. Aqua-Medic makes a fixture with three 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps and then sticks two 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamps between the main lamps. That's a very nice setup and gives a nice appearance. The 20,000K lamps are on a separate power cord.

[john shin]

Originally Posted by KingMinnow

Hey guys,

I'm new to this, and I've been reading, searching, and learning a lot. I have a 180 Gallon tank, 72" x 24" deep, and I need to put a light kit with it. Right now I have a few fish, and some live rock, but no top and no lights.

So here's the question. I'm about to drop $850 on a Hamilton 72" 3MH & Compacts Hood

Selected options:
Compact: 2x96w PC
Hood: Black Aluminum
Reflector: ElectroWhite
Halide: 175w 5500k
Ballast: Magnetic
Fans: Two
Compact Color: 7100k

So that's 2 175w 5500k's, 1 7100K (for the blue), and 2 96 W PCs for the Actinics. Is this a good setup? Will I be able to grow all types of coral, including some clams? Is $850 a good deal? Its from Aqua Direct. If anyone can think of a better setup for the money, please help!!

Thanks for your help,
King Minnow....

hey i got a six month old hamilton w 20k xm blubs 3 400 wtt and pcs too im asking $600 plus shipping can e mail you pics flung23@yahoo.com or jus give me a call 213 842 9273 i down sizing my set up its 72" long
thanks
john
ps im in los angeles ca