t-5 lighting vs. m.h.

[prow]

hey everyone how is it going out there. i am getting ready to set up my new reef tank but can not decide on the lighting. i have a 125ish gal tank 72x18x20h
i was going to go with 3x175w M.H. and 2x96w P.C. but then i started looking into the new t-5 lights. has anyone here used them or know someone who has.i have looked into it a little and they seem to work just as well as M.H. but less power and less heat no start up delay. this mean no chiller needed. so what do you guys think about them

[Reefland]

prow,

The T-5's look very nice and could be compared to VHO or PC's, but not to metal halides. Whether or not these are a good solution for your tank is totally dependant on what you plan to keep in your tank. The 3-175's would be a better solution than T-5, VHO or PC and 3-250's would be a better solution than the 175's.

[Poseidon]

I agree T-5 look nice, but you would need a LOT of them to match the intensity of MH. Here is another idea, run 2 250's over your tank. It will give you areas of lower light intensity on the ends of the tank (not neccessarily a bad thing) and it should cost a little less then 3 175's. That is the setup I use and it has worked well for me. I keep Xenia and mushrooms and other LPS and softies at the ends, with my SPS in the middle.

[Ninong]

i have a 125ish gal tank 72x18x20h... this mean no chiller needed. so what do you guys think about them

I think your tank's relatively shallow width and height would make T5's a viable solution, especially if you are trying to avoid purchasing a chiller.

[prow]

that is what i was thinking, because my tank is only 20" high. from what i understandVHOs losr about 50% of their light intensity at about 6' below the water line and PCs lose 50% of the light intensity at about 9" below the water line t-5s lose 50% at 18" and MH lose 50% at 24". the VHOs i am not totaly sure about but the stats on the others here is correct. i do want a good mix but mostly sps with mabe 2 clams(i know still need to look into what clam) but basicly sps with some lps and 2 clams. i only konw of one person using the t-5 set up and he has 2 clams in his tank that he says are doing great but i forgot to ask what kind they were. one thing about the MH i know 250watt is not needed, once again because the deepth of my tank, and i do need three because my tank is 6 feet long and MH only are good for about 2' of area.the only reason i am not jumping on the t-5 ban wagon rightaway is i am not sure about how many bulbs to get and have not heard enough from ppl that have tried them. my tank is acrylic and has a center brace so the metal halides heat might cause my tank to bow or even crack. not to mention the bulbs for the MH are only good for 1 yr or less. which to me means the light intensity drops dramaticly over say a 6mo period thus the light intensity over a full year will vary and average about the same as the t-5s. the t-5s are good for at least 2 years. and as far as growth of the corals what are you guys looking at. the number of say new polyup growth or the mass and the extention of the existing polyups. i am really thinking of going for the t-5s if for nothing else just to experiment and see what all the talk is about. just need some more imput before i go and spend all that money.

[prow]

o one more question regaurding t5 light. for my tank 72x18x20h how many bulbs and what wattage should i get. and any recomedations for the ratio of sun bulbs to blue to atinic. thanks for all imput so far. i will be posting pic of my new tank setup as i go. the full set up is: diy: 35 gal sump with mericle mud and caulurpa (built out of a 40 gal tank. i have a overflow of about 5gal built within the sump in case power failure. add 10gal extra within the refugium itself and i get about 15gal reserve) with a 586gph and a 1200gph, both are sedras ksp type, pumps for the return. 1.5 in of live sand and about 150-200lbs of live rock. just need to figure out the light situation. the sump is still cureing and i just painted my stand. The sump needs to run about 6-8weeks to mature before stocking begins.that gives me some time to fiqure out the whole light thing. i just want to let you guys know that i really really appreciate all the imput. bad and good it is all very useful. thanks again for everything guys.

[Poseidon]

Sounds like you have thought this out pretty well, I think the TOTM last month @ RC used t-5. Was it 8 or ten I am not sure, but I think it was 2 to 1 daylight to blue... I guess I need to consider the heat issue as when I move I will no longer have a whole room open to prevent heating the water. I know I will be building a canopy and stand very soon, so I better start hinking about cooling the tank!

[prow]

yeah i would. i live in so. california so with just 2x36watt pc on my 20 gal. i dont even use a heater and still my water gets 80+ during the summer. in part because of greenhouse effect so i open the lid every now and then but then the evaporation goes way up. and still the water never drops below 78. depending on where you live makes a big difference. in wammer areas if you use MH than heat will be a big issue. its like adding $500+ to your lighting system just for the chiller. if you or i buy MH and you live in a warm area than you can almost count on doubling the price due to heat issues and all the things from fans to chillers you will need to deal with it.

[prow]

prow,

The T-5's look very nice and could be compared to VHO or PC's, but not to metal halides. Whether or not these are a good solution for your tank is totally dependant on what you plan to keep in your tank. The 3-175's would be a better solution than T-5, VHO or PC and 3-250's would be a better solution than the 175's.

what about the the T-5HO light systems how do you think they compare to MH for my tank. these are the lights i am thinking not reg t-5s

[Ninong]

what about the the T-5HO light systems how do you think they compare to MH for my tank. these are the lights i am thinking not reg t-5s

I'm not sure what you mean by that question. All T5's are HO.

The most important factor when it comes to T5 lamps is the quality of the individual reflector. Each tube needs its own separate reflector. The reflector makes all the difference in the world and is the main reason T5's are so much more efficient watt for watt compared to PCs.

[prow]

I'm not sure what you mean by that question. All T5's are HO.

The most important factor when it comes to T5 lamps is the quality of the individual reflector. Each tube needs its own separate reflector. The reflector makes all the difference in the world and is the main reason T5's are so much more efficient watt for watt compared to PCs.

here is a site www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/futures/lf-hannover97/index.asp it shows the new bulbs being introduced into the US market. i know all t5 are ho but they are calling the new bulbs high output and the old ones standard they are more circular than straight tube. anyway they are new in europe but i can get them because my girlfriends friend is coming to visit and can buy them for me over there. you can find them here i was told but i have not seen any yet. the "old" ones are just starting to get attention in the US. i do know that many industrial industries are changing to the t5s in there warehouses so the price should drop and avilability increase as they start useing them. but lets talk about the standard current bulbs. by the way you guys have been very helpful to me and i do value your opinions very much thanks for all the help. if you can read over this and tell me what you think.

for my tank:
from what i understand the PAR levels of the "old" t5s and MH are about same at 17" below the water line and the PAR level is what our corals want.

so tell me if i am wrong here:

--t5 pentetron 41: 54watts 5000 lumens and PAR 69.5uE/s
--metal halide : 250watts 23000 lumens and PAR 310uE/s

so 5 t5s at 54watts and PAR 69.5uE/s
5x54w=270watt and 5x69.5=347uE/s

MH 1x250w=250watt and 1x310=310uE/s

about the same watts and par's
check this for my tank and tell me what you think
my tank is 72x18x20 but i will use 72x24 to keep the numbers round.

ok 72x24= 12sq feet area needed to light up
t5 at 80w vs mh at 250w here we go

t5 80w=6000lumens
so 8 bulbs x6000lumens= 48,000lumens which means 12sq'/48,000l= 4000lumens per sq foot of light

MH 250w=14,000lumens
so 3 bulbs x14,000lumens= 42,00lumens
12sq'/42,000lumens=
3,500lumens per sq foot of light

as far as the efficiency goes:
MH lumens 85/watt
VHO lumens 50/watt
T5 lumens 75/watt

*note most name brand t5 reflectors are very comparable

if you have not guessed i am going to try out the t5s but as far as light goes i think the T5s seem to be just as good as MH (at least at 20" below the water line) although the MH are more efficent still close. but there is not much data below 20" everyone just says will not work because T5 are still flouresent. with the research that i have done i do not see why they wont work for deeper tanks. fyi i did finally find a tank with maxima clams using t5s and was huge doing great. that tank was 24"h with 4" of sand. and as far as the kelvins go i i will mix 6500k 10k maybe some 20k. why? lets not go there with the k.

So what do you think? any input would be great

[Ninong]

here is a site www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/futures/lf-hannover97/index.asp it shows the new bulbs being introduced into the US market. i know all t5 are ho but they are calling the new bulbs high output and the old ones standard they are more circular than straight tube.

Did you notice that you are reading something that discussed events that took place in 1997 and the article was copyrighted in 1998?

The HO T5 lamps that are sold for the aquarium market in the United States were not around in 1998.

Circular lamps are used for reading, not for lighting aquaria.

but lets talk about the standard current bulbs.

Please define what you mean by "the standard current bulbs?" Are you talking about the T5 lamps that are available in the U.S. and Europe and used for lighting aquaria? These are high output lamps. They are neither "old" nor "new," because they are the same ones that were introduced to the hobby just three or four years ago.

for my tank:
from what i understand the PAR levels of the "old" t5s and MH are about same at 17" below the water line and the PAR level is what our corals want.

Again, I'm afraid you've lost me with "old" T5's. It is impossible to use generic PAR numbers for various lamps because the PAR ratings for lamps varies greatly. For example, the 175w Ushio 10,000K SE metal halide lamp produces three times as much PAR as the 175w Venture 5500K SE metal halide lamp. Both are 175 watts but the PAR output is not the same by any means.

so tell me if i am wrong here:

--t5 pentetron 41: 54watts 5000 lumens and PAR 69.5uE/s
--metal halide : 250watts 23000 lumens and PAR 310uE/s

I'm not sure which 250w metal halide lamp you are referring to here???

*note most name brand t5 reflectors are very comparable

I have seen luminaires with T5 lamps bunched up next to each other with a single reflector covering three or four lamps. That's not a good idea at all. T5 lamps require an individual reflector for each lamp.

T5 lamps would be an acceptable lighting solution for your particular tank. Whether they would be a good idea for a tank that is 27.5" tall, like mine is, is open to discussion. They may work but metal halides would probably be better.

[prow]

Did you notice that you are reading something that discussed events that took place in 1997 and the article was copyrighted in 1998?

The HO T5 lamps that are sold for the aquarium market in the United States were not around in 1998.

ok i think we are talking about the same t5ho but if you noticed in that 97' report there are t5 standard and they were introducing the t5ho but never the less in 1997 there were 2 type as ture today. perhaps the standard has never been use for a fish tank but to say that there is only t5ho is false. and the MH was an average of 8-9 i forgot how many different type 250watt bulbs. anyway thanks for the input. and my friend has a 26" deep tank and he is going to try the t5s so i will tell you how it goes.

[Ninong]

perhaps the standard has never been use for a fish tank but to say that there is only t5ho is false.

Sorry for the confusion. I thought you were asking about lighting a reef tank. The only T5 lamps that have ever been marketed for reef aquarium lighting have been HO lamps.