[Hudini]

I have been reading alot about lighting all types infact. I have read many many post by different people saying, that t5 bulbs lose alot of intensity within 6 months and need to be changed.

To me if this is true it can be an expensive type of lighting to have.

If i buy a t5 ho for $24 and a t12 vho for $36, the t5 lasting 6mo and the t12 lasting 12 mo. That would get expensive quick.


Anybody else read this???

[Peterock]

Thats why depending on what you want to keep I will just stick to the old fasion P/C, VHO's, or MH dont worry about a t-? Keep the hobby simple and easy I have a 45 gall with 4-96watt p/c's and I have good color and I also have a 72 bow that will have VHO's t-5 and t-12 will get real expensive quickly depending on how many you have.

[Poseidon]

All bulbs lose intensity over time, PC too! I replace my MH every year, when I had PC they would last maybe 9 months tops. T-5 has its place, and replacing bulbs is just part of the hobby.

[Hudini]

Yeah but price point vho t-12's are more viable.

People are looking at t5's as a cheap replacement for PC.

If a PC last 9 mo. and a t5 6 mo. and the prices are $10 difference. In a 2 years span you would replace t5's 4 times, pc 3 times and t-12 vho 2 times.

Where is that being cheaper??

[Poseidon]

Never said it was cheaper!!! T-5's are more intense then VHO and PC, BUT I like the Actinic in VHO best. VHO certainly gives the best "glow". T-5s are a viable option for those that can't fit Halides, and don't want to keep SPS or Clams primarily. I am firm believer in Halides as the BEST form of reef lighting. However, I am learning with my new tank, the heat issue is a very real problem...

[charlie]

Originally Posted by Hudini

Yeah but price point vho t-12's are more viable.

People are looking at t5's as a cheap replacement for PC.

If a PC last 9 mo. and a t5 6 mo. and the prices are $10 difference. In a 2 years span you would replace t5's 4 times, pc 3 times and t-12 vho 2 times.

Where is that being cheaper??

Welcome to the reefkeeping money pit!!!!! The thing that they don't tell you when they sell you the bulbs is the lifetime of them!! That's where they get all their people.
I agree with Poseidon, VHO will give you the best bang for your buck, if you are gonna stay with florescents. Really, it's all that is pleasing to your eye, that's why lighting is such a difficult subject to discuss!!!

[The R/C Man]

Well I am all up for new products to improve the hobby but you have to really differentiate between a good product and a "FAD" which I believe the T5 bulbs are. Although I haven't done any research between the standard VHO and the T5's they seem to be a replacement and not really a better product. Please correct me if I am way off here. What do you all think?

[Hudini]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

Well I am all up for new products to improve the hobby but you have to really differentiate between a good product and a "FAD" which I believe the T5 bulbs are. Although I haven't done any research between the standard VHO and the T5's they seem to be a replacement and not really a better product. Please correct me if I am way off here. What do you all think?

Oh I agree, The life span and price kill the t5 product imo. Reef keeping is an expensive hobby. The more often you have to buy an expensive item the less likely it is to stick around.

[The R/C Man]

Wow! I figured my comment would have started some controversy. I guess I need to work on that some more.....

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

Although I haven't done any research between the standard VHO and the T5's they seem to be a replacement and not really a better product. Please correct me if I am way off here.

T5's are just PCs without the bend at the end. This makes them more efficient than PCs because a much higher percentage of the available light can be reflected downward where it belongs. They are more efficient that VHO's on a per watt basis because of the smaller diameter tube.

I'm not familiar with the issue of having to replace them any more often than other fluorescents, I just haven't read that yet. I know that some folks replace their PCs and VHOs every six months while others replace them every 12 months. You can even find people who run them 18-24 months before replacement. There are so many factors that affect the useful lifespan of fluorescent lamps, ballasts being one of the more important factors.

Not many tests have been published on the degradation of fluorescent lighting over time but you could at least get an idea of the general decline in intensity with a cheapy luxmeter. Then the question becomes one of whether you want to replace them after a 25% loss in intensity or wait until a 40% loss in intensity. I'm not 100% positive of this but I don't believe you have to worry about the same issues that cause certain metal halide lamps to require early replacement. A good example of this problem would be the 400w Radium 20,000K metal halides. They shift their spectrum much more rapidly than most metal halides and this is the reason they should be replaced every 6 to 9 months. At the opposite extreme would be the Iwasaki 6500K metal halides which can usually be run 15 - 18 months without problems. In fact, some folks run them longer than that.

I had 250w AB-10000 HQI DE lamps in my fixture and I waited too long before replacing them. I was surprised at the very noticeable difference in coloration when I finally replaced them with 250w BLV 10,000 HQI DE lamps. I don't believe there is a noticeable difference between those two brands; I believe I just didn't notice how much "yellow" had crept into my lighting.

[The R/C Man]

Good info... So do you think they are here to stay or will they fade away? Around here you would be hard pressed to find the T5's in a fish store. So lack of availibilty may keep people from purchasing them. I know it is me.... Any thoughts?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

Around here you would be hard pressed to find the T5's in a fish store. So lack of availibilty may keep people from purchasing them. I know it is me.... Any thoughts?

If anything is on the way out, it's T12's in both NO and VHO. T8's have been replacing T12's for years. I really don't know all that much about T5's but I would imagine that they will still be here when you won't be able to find a single T12 anywhere.

Don't base anything on what you can or cannot find at your LFS. In fact, don't even base anything on what the aquarium market might prefer. The aquarium market is not large enough to keep T12's in production if the major manufacturers all switch to T8's for general lighting purposes.

[Poseidon]

Boy I sure hope VHO sticks around, at least the actinic part. PC Actinic is pretty bad compared to VHO, I haven't seen T5 Actinic, but if you are right George, then it will be pretty bad too!

[The R/C Man]

I did some looking around and places such as Hellolights & Marine Depot have a very limited selection of T5 fixtures (like one).... Aquatic Ecosystems and Custom Aquatic did have some but they didn't seem any cheaper than the VHO's. The bulbs are a few bucks cheaper though....



One thing I noticed was the wattage. For 24" bulbs the T5 use 25watts and the VHO's use 75. Which seems to explain the efficiency. I am wondering about the output between the two though. My new 375 gallon tank is 30" tall so the more penetration I get the better. Maybe someone will do some comparisons such as they have done with the MH bulbs. A valid test between the two would give hobbyists a better informed decision on which would work better for their particular needs.....

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

I did some looking around and places such as Hellolights & Marine Depot have a very limited selection of T5 fixtures (like one).... Aquatic Ecosystems and Custom Aquatic did have some but they didn't seem any cheaper than the VHO's. The bulbs are a few bucks cheaper though....

That's funny because I just checked a couple of the larger German online vendors and all they offer in fluorescents lamps are the T8 NO and the T5 HO. They aren't offering any T12 fluorescents at all, whether NO or VHO. T12s are probably on their way out over here, too. Commercial retail lighting started switching from T12 to T8 years ago and more recently they have starting introducing T5 HO for certain applications.

P.S. -- Here's a German online vendor's website: http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bi...t=1&G_menu38=1

Here's another German site: http://www.sewatec.de/Lighting/T5/?o...ec4cdf3a54cdde

One thing I noticed was the wattage. For 24" bulbs the T5 use 25watts and the VHO's use 75.

Those T5 lamps are actually just a tiny bit over 22" long and the wattage is 24 watts. I'm pretty sure the lumen output is greater than the 75w VHO lamps but I haven't bothered to try to find that online yet. The reason the T5 lamps are so popular in Europe is because they put out less heat than VHO, produce more lumens than VHO and use much less energy than VHO. I'll have to find that online to be sure.

Which seems to explain the efficiency. I am wondering about the output between the two though. My new 375 gallon tank is 30" tall so the more penetration I get the better.

I believe you would get better penetration with T5s than T12s (VHO) but that's another parameter that I will have to look for online.

Maybe someone will do some comparisons such as they have done with the MH bulbs. A valid test between the two would give hobbyists a better informed decision on which would work better for their particular needs.....

I wonder if Sanjay Joshi has ever tested fluorescents? I"m sure somebody has. The manfuacturers may have some technical data on their websites. Maybe.

P.S. -- I just checked an index of all of Sanjay's tests and articles on his website and it seems that he has tested a lot of metal halide lamps and ballasts and quite a few reflectors for metal halide lamps but that's about it -- nothing on fluorescents.

[Ninong]

I found something called Aquarium Lighting Guide.com and their information on T5 HO lamps is pretty much what I thought myself: http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/fluorescent Also, according to that website, T5 HO lamps last considerably longer than VHO lamps.

I have no idea who those guys are and whether they are affiliated with any particular manufacturer or not.

[The R/C Man]

Thanks Ninong!

I will read those sites later when I have some time..... If it looks good I might decide to go with the T5 for my actinics in addition to the MH's.....

[Hudini]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I found something called Aquarium Lighting Guide.com and their information on T5 HO lamps is pretty much what I thought myself: http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/fluorescent Also, according to that website, T5 HO lamps last considerably longer than VHO lamps.

I have no idea who those guys are and whether they are affiliated with any particular manufacturer or not.

This contradicts what I read I will find the link and post it

[Ninong]

Sunlight Supply sells both T5 and VHO and this is what they have to say:

T-5 lamps have some very distinct advantages over their predecessor fluorescent lighting sources such as Compact fluorescents, T-12, T12 VHO and T8. These benefits include lamp life, power efficiency, output per watt and small size (which lends itself for easy redirection). http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquari...tcomparo.shtml and http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquari...nt_lamps.shtml

The two major German lighting fixture manufacturers, Giesemann and Aqua-Medic, have both recently switched from T8 and PC fluorescents for actinic supplementation to T5s.

Giesemann switched their top-of-the-line System 260 Moonlight from T8s to T5s for actinic supplementation: http://www.giesemannlicht.com/detail.php?id=260Moon

[The R/C Man]

From what I understand T5 bulbs are standard in everyday light fixtures in Europe which is why the have taken over in the aquarium trade..... Since we use T12 in our building lighting why would companies switch over to manufacturing T5 for the aquarium industry?