[rebrob]

fixture looks great and will send before and after pics, BUT

What should the order in the fixture be?

I chose 4 11k's and 2 actinics, because of the look i like.

Problem is, I am trying to figure out what is the best bulb set-up in the fixture. Is there a difference that benefits tank life (corals, clams ... )?

Thanks for your help.

[Reefland]

Hi rebrob,

I would go with the following front to back:
11k, Act, 11k, 11k, Act, 11k

But really at the point the corals and clams aren't going to note a difference so whatever looks best will work. The above would give a good balance though.

[rebrob]

thanks, will send pics when i get a chance

[charlie]

Scott has the idea!!! Does the fixture have the dawn/dusk feature on it? Can't wait to see your pics.

[rebrob]

it has two switches, if that is what you mean. One switch is for the middle four and the other is for the outer two. That is the reason i moved the act. to the outer two and the suns to the middle four. This morning I did what scott said, so we'll see, unless you have a different suggestion because of the dusk/dawn switch.

[Reefland]

I would still go with my suggestion, using the dual switch for different times would be optional...

[rebrob]

ok, been going for a few days (I even took pics but the files were too big to upload to the gallery, I'll have to take care of that), but since turning them on, they have heating up my water like which killed my ailing clam.

Temp was already an issue which was one of the reasons i went with the t5's.

So here is the scoop. I set it up with the adjustable mounting legs (wife doesn't like them hanging). I initially set it up with the fixture in the middle to low end of the mount (about 5 inches) on the first day - temp went from 80 to 83. I raised it some more this morning but the temp went to 84. Tonight i moved it to the highest point, about 8 inches from the water to the bulbs. I hope this helps.

Is 8 inches going to have a negative affect? I thought the t5's were cooler than MH? I guess not that much cooler.

My house has central air and it is about 73 degrees in the room. Why is the tank sooo hot?

ugh!?!

[charlie]

Try using some fans on your sump. If you have to, run them 24/7. Good luck.

[Reefland]

Also on the heat, what kind of pumps are you running on/in the system?

[saltjunkie]

wow.. i still dont understand this heat thing, i am truely sorry for your loss though,, i just went thorugh one..
but i have my heaters set on 85.. 2 ebo jaggers,
the tank is constant at 84-86
no algae blooms.. all species in it do good.. my Regal tang has NEVER had ich.. etc..

good luck on the light set up.. it sounds nice..i keep thinking of redoing my lights... but i never doo... :slap:

[rebrob]

Latest update:

1) thanks for your replies. It keeps me going

2) UGHHHH!!!! Haven't lost anything more, but still have problem. I put a 6 inch fan over the sump, raised the t5's as high as they can go (8 inches) and put a versa top cover which covers about 70 % of the tank over it (i hadn't had a cover over it). Outcome = morning 80 deg, night time 84 deg.

3) pumps was my next area. i have:
3 - maxi-jets 1200's little less than a year old
1 - pump on the euroreef skimmer (i think the pump is called a venturi)
1 - main water pump in the sump that i can't find the name on it. It came with the system which i bought used. It looks inexpensive, no bells and whistles.

when i touch all of them, they don't feel warm, but they do sit in the water so, i think maybe the water is cooling them to the touch (if there is a problem with one of them). Could the main pump generate that kinda heat? is there a way to test if there is the problem with the main pump?

Help

[saltjunkie]

seriously, that is the same problem i have alway had.. thats why i have 2 heaters, to stop the temp swing.. set one of your heaters to 82 or 83.. and watch it for a day or 2, see if the temp swing stops.. and watch the tank.. see how it reacts..

[Poseidon]

Or how about a chiller? My tank stays between 77-80 all the time!

[rebrob]

thanks for the replies.

saltjunkie: i would like to see if it can be solved. Based on others, it seems the tank should not be overheating. If i can't figure it out, that is a great solution.

Poisidon: The reason i bought the t5's was because they were an inexpensive way of getting good quality upgrade. The other route was MH's with chiller which would run me 1500 total.

could the pumps be causing the initial raised temp?

[rebrob]

main pump:

After some research, it looks like a supreme mag 7 in my sump. do these generate heat?

[saltjunkie]

i wouldnt say the tank is overheating...


i have a 50 gallon tank.
36 inch tank.
i have 2 x55 pc and a 175 mh in the canopy
a mag 7 in the sump, a shop light fixture with one of those swirly type pc type bulbs on 24/7
in the tank i have a rio 500 and a maxi jet 400 and 900
my skimmer has a maxi 1200
i think you are just having normal heat issues, and making too much of it..
85 degree temps isnt bad.. the temp swing is what is bad, if you can control the temp swing and stabilize the systyem temp, your tank will do good..

[rebrob]

Thanks so much for your comments, saltjunkie. They have been extremely helpful.

I just don't get why most fish and corals are posted at 76-79 degreess if they can thrive in 83-4 degrees. I had a friend talk to me about temp, who said the higher the temp, the harder it is for them to "breath". Kinda like when we go into higher altitudes. I have no idea if this is true. I also do not doubt that your tank is great and thriving. I guess i am just trying to get others to comment. Please don't take my comments in the wrong way, i'm just trying to see if there are other explanations or options.

i had two 175 MH pendants sitting 12 inches up (gave me a 78-83 degree swing), which had enough punch but did not stretch the entire width of the tank and was an eye-sore. I was going to buy better MH's, but i was advised that my upgrade was going to have a significant affect on my heat, so i should buy the tek light because they push out much less heat and are a great option for my 72 inch bowfront. Well, here i am with the problem i was told i wouldn't have which is the reason for my frustration.

Are there others who think running the reef at 82-83 degrees as a constant temp is ok?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by rebrob

Are there others who think running the reef at 82-83 degrees as a constant temp is ok?

IMO a constant 82-83 degrees is not only OK, it is ideal.

This is an extremely complicated topic and I don't know if I can do it justice with just a few sentences but here goes.

For starters, your friend is wrong to make a blanket statement that fish have a hard time breathing in warmer water. It that were true, why do we see the largest diversity and the greatest population density of reef fishes nearer the equator than farther from it? He is assuming that just because warmer water contains less oxygen then fish must find it harder to breathe in warmer water. This may hold true for an outdoor stagnant pond with little or no water flow in the middle of August when the water temperature reaches 93 degrees but it doesn't work that way in the ocean or in a well aerated reef aquarium. If you want to see your fish have a hard time breathing in your reef tank, just cut the power for several hours and see how they do with no water circulation regardless of the water temperature.

Getting back to the subject of ideal reef aquarium water temperature, the correct answer, as usual, is IT ALL DEPENDS.

Obviously there can be nothing wrong with duplicating their natural environment and the average water temperature near tropical reefs is around 83-84 degrees Fahrenheit (it's 81 F for ALL reefs in the world, including those in cooler regions). It gets a lot warmer than that in some areas in the summer and somewhat cooler in the winter. The temperature swings are much more pronounced in the subtropical areas than they are in the tropics. There is a much wider seasonal temperature variation in the Florida Keys than there is in the tropics. Fiji water temps range from about 78 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter to about 86 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer. Water temps over reefs in the Red Sea regularly get into the 90's. Indigenous animals (fish, corals, etc.) adapt to their particular environment.

If you are getting all of your fish and corals from one particular environment, such as the Red Sea, you might consider running your tank with very high salinity and higher than normal temperatures. Probably 99% of hobbyists have an assortment of fish and corals from various regions in their aquariums. Therefore it would make sense to avoid extremes in either salinity or temperature. Ideal salinity would be around 35 PSU (practical salinity units, aka ppt -- parts per thousand). That translates to a specific gravity of approximately 1.026 at ideal reef aquarium temps of 81-83 degrees.

There are several Catch 22's that come into play. First, don't try to duplicate natural temps unless you also have reasonable water flow and an effective means to prevent water temperature spikes three or four degrees higher than your set temps. If you can't keep the temperature at 82-83 degrees, perhaps you should keep it at 80-81 degrees instead. That might be more difficult without a chiller but it would be safer.

Fish are more adaptable to temperature swings than most corals. Corals have an ideal water temperature range for growth and water temps that are just two or three degrees Celsius above their ideal range are usually fatal if the conditions persist uninterrupted for several weeks.

The counter argument to maintaining natural reef temps in a home aquarium is that such temps result in natural growth conditions which are not desirable in reef tanks. Fish will grow faster and consume more food at natural water temps than they will at reduced temps. Their metabolism proceeds at a faster pace than it would if the water temperature were kept at say 75-77 degrees. Corals would also grow faster, resulting in crowded conditions sooner. But the number one reason that some people prefer to maintain reef tanks at lower temperatures is because they think it gives them an advantage in controlling harmful pathogens. This, incidentally, is why hospitals are so freezing cold.

I know some reef hobbyists who maintain beautiful reef tanks at a constant temperature of around 81-83 degrees and I know others who keep beautiful reef tanks with water temps around 78-80 degrees. Even the hobby authors who used to recommend 74-76 degrees 10 or 12 years ago are now recommending 78-80 degrees today. Many others are recommending 80-84 degrees. I have experienced considerable temperature problems myself because of an inability to control daily temperature swings and avoid temperature spikes caused by other people's actions when I wasn't around. IME temperatures below 86 degrees caused no problems but temperatures above 86 degrees caused lots of problems. I once came home after being gone all day to find that someone had closed the door to my room and closed the doors to the aquarium stand's cabinet, resulting in a water temperature of 89 degrees. This resulted in the loss of all of my SPS within a few days.

Here is a chart with historical water temps for Fiji: http://www.naia.com.fj/research/water.html As you can see from that chart, the water temperature in Fiji is above 80 degrees 8 months of the year and it is well above 83 degrees during their summer (December to May).

Here is some interesting commentary on water temperature and salinity in reef aquariums: http://www.rshimek.com/reef/tempsal.htm

[rebrob]

That was fantanstic, Ninong. I am going to take Saltjunkie's suggestion and set my heater in such a way that my temp swing will be drecreased and try to keep it at 82-84 dregrees. I hope this solves all the problems and I'll buy a new clam when everything stabilizes.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by rebrob

That was fantanstic, Ninong. I am going to take Saltjunkie's suggestion and set my heater in such a way that my temp swing will be drecreased and try to keep it at 82-84 dregrees. I hope this solves all the problems and I'll buy a new clam when everything stabilizes.

If you do that, just make sure your water temperature never hits 87 degrees.