[64Ivy]

After nearly a decade I am about to undergo a major lighting upgrade, basically going from (4) AB 10K 250W MHs plus (3) 20K 400W Radiums all hood-mounted in Spiderlight reflectors (plus 640W of VHO actinics) to (3) Sfiligoi Twin 400W XR4s pendants. The recommended bulbs are BLVs and I am thinking of going with one 10K and one 20K in each pendant (with no actinics). My goal is skewed more toward color than growth and the tank is a 10 year old 500g (96 X 36 X 36), SPS dominant.

Any thoughts on this? Recommendations? Critiques?

It has been difficult for me to do a PAR comparision because BLVs aren't listed in Sanjays site, although I've heard they're made by Ushio. I don't know if the characteristics are the same however. Also, my current lighting set up is run through magnetic ballasts while the new one would be through Sfiligis electronics.

Anyway, I've still got a little time to decide so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[charlie]

Hmmm, I think I have seen this somewhere else. I was using a combination of 10K reefflux and radiums on my 300, and was experiencing good growth and great colors on the the blues. Don't know if this helps, but at least I tried.

[Poseidon]

Let me make sure I am reading this right....

You are going to replace:

4x250W 10K AB's
3x400W 20K Radiums
and
640W of VHO Actinic

With:

3x400W 10K
and
3x400W 20K
Without any actinic supplementation?

So you are going from 2840W to 2400W total power consumption. I think that is a GREAT move, but if you are going to replace all those metal halides, why replace them with more metal halides?

Is your 36" deep tank to deep for T5's? You say that color is your primary focus, and from what I have seen locally, T5's give awesome color.

Also, why not the new LED fixtures from PFO, I can't imagine those 3 XR4's are going to be very cheap?

I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but your tank is such an inspiration to others, that I am sure you are going to give this an enormous amount of thought....

[Reefland]

I think that would be very cool! I always thought that running 10k and 20k together like that would be nice visually and would provide great growth and coloration. Are you going to use the ACLS too?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by 64Ivy

It has been difficult for me to do a PAR comparision because BLVs aren't listed in Sanjays site, although I've heard they're made by Ushio. I don't know if the characteristics are the same however.

BLV was acquired by Ushio in October 1990. The BLV factory in Bavaria, just outside Munich, is managed by two guys from Tokyo.

The last time I looked at aquarium hobby metal halide lamps in a Ushio catalogue, the Ushio code numbers and the BLV codes numbers were listed on the same line for the same item with the same specifications for those lamps that were branded as both Ushio and BLV. That was about four years ago and at that time all of the aquarium metal halide lamps were being manufactured at the Ushio/BLV factory in Bavaria.

Maybe this is similar to what Siemens does with its various brand names. Maybe they use different brand names for different countries? Anyway, the last time I checked their catalogue (back around 2002), there was no difference between the aquarium metal halide lamps that they sold. Some carried two different product codes (Ushio and BLV) and some carried only one product code.

P.S. -- And back then when I was looking into who makes what for whom, the same BLV factory was making some metal halide lamps under two other brand names for their "competition."

[Mr.Firemouth]

Posiedon is right on this one. I would think it out a little more...
I would wait one more year if you can and see what the PFO LED's will do in price/availability/and performance. They may be the way to go for both performance and energy cost. I myself am using a 5 MH fixture.(3) 250w/(2) 150w. I am upgrading to a 8 lamp T5 72" fixture after the first of the year. I would like the Solaris LED system but it is too much!!!

[64Ivy]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Let me make sure I am reading this right....

You are going to replace:

4x250W 10K AB's
3x400W 20K Radiums
and
640W of VHO Actinic

With:

3x400W 10K
and
3x400W 20K
Without any actinic supplementation?

So you are going from 2840W to 2400W total power consumption. I think that is a GREAT move, but if you are going to replace all those metal halides, why replace them with more metal halides?

Is your 36" deep tank to deep for T5's? You say that color is your primary focus, and from what I have seen locally, T5's give awesome color.

Also, why not the new LED fixtures from PFO, I can't imagine those 3 XR4's are going to be very cheap?

I am sorry to answer your question with more questions, but your tank is such an inspiration to others, that I am sure you are going to give this an enormous amount of thought....

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back; I've been at Toys R Us, Christmas shopping for my daughter and it's taken me this long to get a price check on the Sparkling Ariel.

Just kidding. Travel, the Holidays, and photo shoot work actually.

Anyway, yeah, Poseidon, you read it right. But Sfiligoi DOES offer the option of adding T5 actinic supplimental modules to its XR4 Twin pendants if I truly miss the look though I am being told that with the (right) 20K bulbs, I probably wont. In any event, this would be the first time I've tried a set up without actinics and I DO like the look so going with the T5s is a viable possibility.

Yes, btw, I did plan to go with the ACLS ballasts...In fact, if I understand this correctly, one of the arguments AGAINST the T5's in my case, is that they are not dimmable and therefore would work against the "sunrise/sunset" effect of the ACLS.

As for the LEDs, according to Sanjay at MACNA earlier this year, we're still a bit aways from being able to appropriately light a 36" deep tank with LED's. I'm sure this situation will be rectified about a week after I purchase my new halides but, for now, LEDs don't seem to be an option. Please let me know if you have information I may have missed though. Like I said, it's been a busy month.

Ninong: Thanks for the BLV info. I still haven't been able to find any data on BLV PAR tests to see if they differ from Ushios so I aquirred an Apogee meter and, should I go in this direction, I will test them myself (to the best of my ability ).

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help so far. I AM back home now so if anyone has anymore advice, I'll be able to respond far more quickly.

[Poseidon]

Well, even if you cross off the LED's for now, I still think a total T5 option is worth a look. It is true you can not dim a T5, but I think you can still get the dusk/dawn effect just by turning on/off the bulbs in sequence. Then again, I run halides, and I really like the shimmer effect, that is one thing T5's can't give.

Anyway, I am sure you are going to be very careful with this decision. And for what it is worth, those fixtures you are looking at, look very good to me!

[Ninong]

I don't believe there is any difference at all between Ushio and BLV metal halide lamps marketed to the aquarium hobby. I believe they are identical in every respect and all of them are manufactured at the BLV factory in Germany.

Aqualite™ - 10,000K Metal Halide

USHIO’s Aqualite™ 10,000K metal halide lamps are the original German made 10,000 Kelvin lamp. Used in reef aquarium systems for healthier fish and corals, USHIO lamps have set the benchmark for quality and performance.

The Aqualite™ lamps have a high color temperature from a single point source which simulates the appearance of sun light in ocean depths of approximately 5 meters. The superior spectrum balance of the Aqualite™ lamps make for ideal lighting conditions for reef systems including fish, coral and other marine fauna and flaura.

Available in Double Ended 75W, 150W, 250W; Single Ending 175W, 250W, 400W, 1000W with a color temperature of 10,000K.

The spec sheet tells you that they are made at the Ushio BLV factory in Germany.

You can see Sanjay's test results for the Ushio 400w 10,000K lamps here. Run the search leaving the ballast option blank so that you will get all ballasts he tested. Note that only the top two ballasts listed produced acceptable results with the Ushio 400w 10,000K lamps.

[64Ivy]

Originally Posted by Ninong

I don't believe there is any difference at all between Ushio and BLV metal halide lamps marketed to the aquarium hobby. I believe they are identical in every respect and all of them are manufactured at the BLV factory in Germany....

You can see Sanjay's test results for the Ushio 400w 10,000K lamps here... Note that only the top two ballasts listed produced acceptable results with the Ushio 400w 10,000K lamps.

Well, THAT could be a problem now, couldn't it? I wonder which ballast on Sanjays list comes closest to approximating the performance of the ACLS?

Also, I've been hearing really good things about the Aquaconnect 400W 14K bulb (Big PAR with that one). Anybody have some real world experience with it?

[64Ivy]

Bringing this one back because I've JUST received the order ! In the interim however I've done a bit of research into the AquaConnect 14K (400W) and thought about making life simpler by just going with 6 of them. My concern however is that they wouldn't be blue enough. This would be my first time going without actinic supplimentation, which I DO like the look of, but adding it to this system would become a logistical nightmare. My other option would be going with half 14s and half 20K Radiums, but I'm thinking that combo would be TOO blue. Should I just go with all 14s and relax or what?

[charlie]

I think you already know my answer, but just for grins, I used to run 6 400w 20K radiums over my 300, with actinic supplementation. Loved it!!!
Got really amazing growth for the bulbs too.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by 64Ivy

My other option would be going with half 14s and half 20K Radiums, but I'm thinking that combo would be TOO blue. Should I just go with all 14s and relax or what?

I'm not familiar with all the newer brands and Kelvin rating options available on the market today. However, from reading all the posts and test results over the past seven years for the 20,000K Radiums in both 250w and 400w sizes, I know that the 250w 20,000K Radiums are much bluer in appearance than the 400w 20,000K Radiums and that the appearance of the 400w 20,000K Radiums is influenced by the choice of ballast.

The 400w 20,000K Radiums can have a very nice bluish-white appearance with the right ballast and they can produce a lot of PAR for a 20,000K lamp. However, they need to be replaced quite frequently! Sanjay has speculated that they should probably be replaced every six months but dgasmd (Alberto) recently posted that in his experience (he has a 750-gal tank, 120"x48"x30") they needed to be replaced at least every five months but that every four months would have been better. He loved them but he wasn't pleased with the cost of replacing them so often.

Here is the exact quote from Alberto:

"I agree in that the radiums are almost the perfect light to my eyes. Especially when you add some actinic to them. But take it from someone that has used them for 2 years now. They need to be replaced every 5 months at most. Every 4 would be ideal. That makes that bulb an extremely inefficient bulb in my book. Now, if they were like $30 each, I would be happy to use them forever. Even at dealer's prices they are hard to justify long term."

Based on Alberto's comments and similar comments from other hobbyists who have used 400w 20,000K Radiums, it appears that they need to be replaced twice as often as most other metal halide lamps. Just something to consider.

[charlie]

The ones I ran on an HQI ballast I replaced every 6 months. On the Pulse start every 9 months. HTH

[RJD2REEF]

I went with the Reeflux 12k 400w bulbs mounted in luminarc reflectors and I was so impressed that I am going to keep mt MH system and go all 5 lamps 12k. Here is a pic...

[wozza]

Wow!

[rjs5134]

Yeah, WOW... and my wife think I have a problem. What is she gonna think when I have the time and space for a setup like that?

[Samper]

If you decide to go with all T5's as I've decided to do from now on and you like the shimmer effect you can wire up a strip of white and blue leds between one of the T5 strips and you will get the shimmer effect out of it. I got the idea from a friend who also runs all T5's. We were messing around one day with his caving helmet that has the blue/white mixture of leds in the light on top. We put it over the tank and had the shimmer effect instantly.

[CSeaSee]

Good to know- thank you. I've often thought about switching to T-5s when I get a bigger tank, but I didn't want to give up the shimmer effect. This cements my decision. Won't the wife be thrilled!

[Pv1191]

I looked into the LED option and decided against it at the main lighting option. I am going with an 8 bulb(54 watts each) array with LED supplements for accents. This is for a 90g mixed reef that is 24" deep. I only hope my outlets can handle it! The wiring in my house sucks!