Lighting too long?

[SouthBayPhoto]

Hey all,

I was wondering if I'm lighting my tank too long or maybe not long enough. Here's kind of what has happened...

It's a 46 gallon bow front with a 2 bulb 36" NO (30w/ea) setup. It's just a FOWLR tank at this time (and will stay that way until I move them into my 90).

Anyway, to start the cycle (months ago), I was advised to up the time frame of my lighting to help get rid of the brown algae (diatoms, correct?). I was running two 10k bulbs at 17 hrs (5a-10p). I also had placed in two black velvet damsels to help with the cycling. (all this info was gathered prior to finding this great site, so bear with me. LOL)

After the tank started to cycle, green algae took over the diatoms/brown algae and then EVERYTHING started going WAY green. I heard I might get hair algae, red slime algae (it's a bacteria, so I've heard...not really an algae), etc.. if I let it keep going. I didn't want that to happen, so I backed the lighting down to 12 hrs (10a-10p, again, with only 2 10k bulbs).

Then I was getting the diatoms/brown algae back again. UGGGHHH. After it started to spread like wildfire again, I then put in an actinic-03 bulb (so now there is one actinic-03 and one 10k) and bumped the time up to 15 hours. I put it on two timers, so the actinic is on 15 hrs (7a-10p) and the 10k is on 13 hrs (8a-9p). That's how it is currently. Oh and the moonlight goes from 10p-7a.

Also, about a month ago, I put in 6 astrea (spelling?) snails (even though the LFS told me they were Turbos and he didn't have any astreas left) and 2 hermits (blue legged and I believe the other one is a scarlet, even though the LFS said it was a red legged, but I might be wrong).

It still seems as though I get a lot of diatoms/brown algae still on the glass. I do have some green on the crushed coral (I know...not going with that in the new tank) and dead corals, but still seems like I'm getting more of the brown on the glass. At least I believe it's brown. MAYBE it's a deep red/maroon color.

Gosh, can I ever make a story short?! My point is...am I running my lights too long? or maybe not enough? Should I go back up to the 17 hrs? I know patience is a big part of this hobby, but I also don't want to mess things up while I'm trying to be patient. LOL

[BinaryReefer]

What type of water are you using for salt mixing and top off?

[SouthBayPhoto]

Here comes the beating...

Dechlorinated tap water actually. I do my water changes (along with the filters/carbon) every 4 weeks, just over 10 percent at each change.

[BinaryReefer]

Do you have a phosphate test kit?

[Ninong]

My point is...am I running my lights too long? or maybe not enough? Should I go back up to the 17 hrs?

I would never under any circumstances run lighting more than 14 hrs/day over a reef aquarium. The natural photoperiod at the equator would be 12 hrs of daylight and 12 hrs of darkness.

Personally I like 11 hrs/day of halides and 13 hrs/day of actinic supplementation. In other words, the actinics come on one hour before the halides and go off one hour after the halides.

A total photoperiod between 11-13 hours is fine. A photoperiod of less than 10 hours is inadequate. Any photoperiod longer than 14 hrs doesn't leave adequate time for the respiration phase, which takes place in the absence of light.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Binary - No I don't. Have only tested for Ammonia, Ph, Nitrites and Nitrates thus far.

Ninong - This tank is only a FOWLR tank, but I understand what you mean. That's why, after the green algae started going strong, I cut it back to 12 hrs total because I read it really shouldn't be more than that.

However, since I'm running NO lights, I figured maybe I had to keep them on longer to compensate for people running HO/VHO/Halides because those are so much stronger than my NO lights.

So, I should back it down to 13 hrs max (actinic) and 11 hrs max (10k) on my lighting?

Here's a weird question for ya...do you feed your fish when the daylight lights aren't on? Reason I ask is I usually have to leave by 8 am every day and if I keep my lights on till 10 pm (to at least enjoy some viewing when I'm finally home from work), then I won't be turning the actinc on until 9 am. That means I'd have to feed them while the moonlight is on and they are NO WHERE to be found in the tank. LOL Even if food goes in, they don't come out.

Normally I try and feed them once in the morning (7:45a - 8:00a) and once at night (6:00p - 7:00p). Should I just cut it down to once a day (say 6-7 pm or so)?

[Ninong]

Ninong - This tank is only a FOWLR tank, but I understand what you mean. That's why, after the green algae started going strong, I cut it back to 12 hrs total because I read it really shouldn't be more than that.

If it's a FOWLR tank, then you can pretty much do whatever you want but I don't think I would keep the lights on more than 13 hrs/day anyway.

However, since I'm running NO lights, I figured maybe I had to keep them on longer to compensate for people running HO/VHO/Halides because those are so much stronger than my NO lights.

This only comes into play if you have zooxanthellae in your tank. If you don't have any photosynthetic corals, anemones or clams, etc., then there is no reason to be concerned about the total daily irradiance. The only thing you should be concerned about matching is the photoperiod -- the length of time the lights are on or off.

So, I should back it down to 13 hrs max (actinic) and 11 hrs max (10k) on my lighting?

I made that suggestion based on the assumption you were setting up a reef aquarium but it's still a good idea for a FOWLR tank, too. The difference here is that since it's just a FOWLR tank, you could reduce the total lighting period to ten or eleven hours per day if you feel like it.

Here's a weird question for ya...do you feed your fish when the daylight lights aren't on? Reason I ask is I usually have to leave by 8 am every day and if I keep my lights on till 10 pm (to at least enjoy some viewing when I'm finally home from work), then I won't be turning the actinc on until 9 am. That means I'd have to feed them while the moonlight is on and they are NO WHERE to be found in the tank. LOL Even if food goes in, they don't come out.

Normally I try and feed them once in the morning (7:45a - 8:00a) and once at night (6:00p - 7:00p). Should I just cut it down to once a day (say 6-7 pm or so)?

Most fish are used to eating all day long in their natural environment. Ideally you want to feed your fish at least twice a day but three or four times a day would be even better. In other words, feeding smaller portions more frequently is a more natural way to go than simply feeding them just once a day. It's difficult, if not impossible, to do this if you're working during the day so you have to do what you can. Some people even use an automatic feeder for feeding when they're away from home.

You have to figure out what's best for your particular situation. Since I'm retired, I used to feed my fish at least twice a day but usually three times a day. If you have any herbivores, such as tangs or rabbitfish, then you will want to place some seaweed on a clip in the tank for them to browse on every day.

[SouthBayPhoto]

I appreciate the info. I think I'm going to back it down tomorrow to 13 hrs and go from there. If I have an diatom/brown algae problem at that point, I'll have to check into other avenues on why it's happening.

My best I can probably do on feeding is twice a day...but I'm afraid of the food sitting on the substrate and rotting if I feed them prior to the light being on. I don't know how to resolve that. Unless maybe I set the timer to have the actinics come on only for about 30 min (15 min prior to feeding and 15 min after), then go back off until it's time for it to normally come on. Unless that would mess the fish up.

[Ninong]

If I have an diatom/brown algae problem at that point, I'll have to check into other avenues on why it's happening.

Diatoms are silicate limited. They require silicate to make their cell walls. Once the available silicate is depleted, they will die down to nothing or almost nothing. Sometimes the silicate is coming from the freshwater source. That's a possibility to consider.

My best I can probably do on feeding is twice a day...but I'm afraid of the food sitting on the substrate and rotting if I feed them prior to the light being on. I don't know how to resolve that. Unless maybe I set the timer to have the actinics come on only for about 30 min (15 min prior to feeding and 15 min after), then go back off until it's time for it to normally come on. Unless that would mess the fish up.

Twice a day is fine (unless you have anthias) but I wouldn't feed the fish before they're awake. Maybe the best you can do is just once a day? You can always feed them twice a day on weekends if you're home.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Looks like I need to look into using RO/DI water from now on. I guess going to the LFS once a month to get it won't be that big of a deal. I thought I was doing okay because of dechlorinizing the water. I guess not. LOL I guess I'll just have to get a big jug of it and keep it on hand for the normal evaporation water refill, as well as the monthly water changes.

Chalk it up to another lesson learned.

I guess I'll have to go to once a day feedings and twice on the weekends then. I just hope it doesn't hurt anything. But there really isn't much I can do about it.

Again, I truly appreciate the advice. I best go reset those timers now.

[charlie]

Thanx for the help Ninong, I have been without dial tone or internet since sometime last nite. Some drunk decided he didn't like one of our green boxes about a mile from my house, he mowed it flat!!!!

South Bay, get yourself a RO/DI unit, in the long run, you will be saving yourself a ton of money, and hassle!!!!

As far as your lighting goes, how long has it been since you replaced your existing bulbs, that may also be a cause for the algae. Once you get everyting into your 90, and start treating it like a reef, you will probably be upgrading the lites. You may go thru the same cycle, but with a little diligence, and some good advice, I am gonna bet that your tank will be a model!!!!
As far as the timing goes, when you switch over to the 90, just switch the time the lites are on. Instead of 8 to 8, try 12-12. That way you get to watch the tank, feed more than once, and everybody will be happy, so to speak. There is no rule saying you have to lite just during the day. I am thinking of switching my timing to maybe 4pm to 4 am to deal with heat issues in the summer. I don't get off work until 5 anyways, so what am I going to miss????
If you do test for phosphate, you are likely going to read 0 anyways, because the PO4 is bound in the algae. In my opinion, the phosphate test is a joke anyways, the longer you have your system, and the longer you watch it, you will know when there is a problem, you don't need a test kit to tell you that. JMHO

[BinaryReefer]

I was not telling him to test his tank water for PO4, but the water he USES in his tank.

[charlie]

OOPS, my bad, I misunderstood. Sorry.

[BinaryReefer]

My fault for not being clear

[SouthBayPhoto]

I appreciate the info. I've been thinking about a RO/DI unit now. Just seems like I need all this stuff now and can't afford to get it now.

Yup, I'll be upgrading my lights (been talking about that on another thread) when I go to the 90. I did already change my lights back to 13 hrs total (actinic to actinic, so to speak), so we'll see how that goes.

As for the bulb changes, I changed them out about a month ago, when I went to put the actinic bulb in. So, I figured I'd be good to go there.

For the time being, I'll just go with RO/DI water and see how that goes. I know it won't clear up instantly or anything, but hopefully it'll start helping until the 90 is up and rockin'.

[charlie]

I think you will be amazed at what happens when you switch to RO/DI water. Like you said, it won't happen fast, nothing good ever does, but it will happen.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Looks like I'm goin' RO/DI searching. LOL

[Nikki]

SouthBayPhoto, I am also in search of an RO/DI unit, but have no time at the present. What I have been doing that the guys here intimated was a great step in the right direction, is purchasing gallons of distilled water at the grocery store in the meantime. My pevious diatom blooms are all clear now :-) It is a pain to haul, but the price we pay for the beauty of the tank ....

[SouthBayPhoto]

Yup, doing the same thing, but just recently, so I haven't seen it clear up yet. I'm hoping to get an RO/DI unit next weekend (well, buy it and wait for it to ship, anyway).

Good to hear your algae blooms cleared up. Looks like I have something to look forward to. LOL

[Ramer]

I got my ro/di from BuckEye Field supply. 100gpd It came put to gether and had a tds metter with it. All in all I thought it was the best deal. I later upgraded it to 200gpd with some help from Charlie. I bought a 100 gal verticale storsge tank that is of food grade from a rach and home supply store. $200.0 Found them on line cheaper, but the shipping would have been around 150.00. I figured If I had a emergancy and needed lots of water at once then I would have it on hand.