LED panels?

[icemark]

Has anybody used the new LED panels, that I have seen on a couple Hydroponic shops selling them. Not for moonlight but rather for regular tank lighting:

90% 8000K White plus 10% 466 NM blue

With a claimed color balance to the red/blue (17% BLUE light and 83% RED light) panels:


13 watt usage per 12"x12" panel.

any input?

[charlie]

I think that Zoanuts is using them over his stuff. I heard Sanjay speak last summer, and I believe he says that they are like 175 halides, no matter what wattage you get.
I think the technology will get better, but for right now, they are out of my price league!!!! JMHO

[icemark]

well I am starting a new 90 tall in the living room, and started looking at new lighting options. LED Panels are around $100 each but with the 100,000 hour life expectancy and 13 watt draw, that cost pays for itself within the first 2 years (vs a decent Halide).

175 halides would be a little shy, as I was figuring I really need 250-400 as the top of the S bed to lights is about 28"

The other thing I was looking at is the untangeable shimmer that Halides give. I am suspecting that despite the advertising claims, that the light is simular to a bank of PC or 5's.

[charlie]

well I am starting a new 90 tall in the living room, and started looking at new lighting options. LED Panels are around $100 each but with the 100,000 hour life expectancy and 13 watt draw, that cost pays for itself within the first 2 years (vs a decent Halide).

175 halides would be a little shy, as I was figuring I really need 250-400 as the top of the S bed to lights is about 28"

The other thing I was looking at is the untangeable shimmer that Halides give. I am suspecting that despite the advertising claims, that the light is simular to a bank of PC or 5's.

At that depth, you would probably be better off with at least 250W and possibly 400W. Depending on what type of coral you are going to have, you may be able to get away with T5. If you did a little searching around on here, you will find that alot of folks are using T5 because of the power consumption, and they are having real good success with them!!!

I actually thought that you may be talking about these, by PFO:
Solaris Buy it Now

[icemark]

At that depth, you would probably be better off with at least 250W and possibly 400W. Depending on what type of coral you are going to have, you may be able to get away with T5. If you did a little searching around on here, you will find that alot of folks are using T5 because of the power consumption, and they are having real good success with them!!!

yeah, pretty much what I was thinking.

I actually thought that you may be talking about these, by PFO:
Solaris Buy it Now

Nope, these are gro-tek. But I have seen them at a couple hydro stores now:

http://www.gro-tek.com/lightpanel_off.jpg

[charlie]

I don't know exactly what the comparison would be, but I think you are headed in the right direction. I would think that the technology will finally catch up with the thinking, and maybe the price will come down a bit!!!!
I am going over to Spokane to see Sanjay in July and I will ask him if things are progressing in the LED field, That should be an interesting chat.

[Poseidon]

On a 90 gallon tank, I would say 4-6 T5's would be ideal. OR a pair of 250W halides, but I don't think those particular LED's would be a good choice, they would need T5 actinic or VHO actinic to balance out the color, and then you wouldn't really be saving anything, or much anyway on the wattage.

My tank runs T5, and I have SPS corals.

[icemark]

Yeah, I am mixed on the T5 thing. I know they are very efficient (better than PC or so it is claimed) but fluorescents has always been a mixed bag to me. They don't have much pop and the light degrades pretty fast. But then I have not used the T5s yet.

Over my 60 I am using PC, and have just fine softy growth, and over my 30 I use VHO... but in setting up this new 90 I was leaving my options open and trying to keep the power requirements down.

I think I will get one or two of the panels and see how it works. In automotive apps, the LED light almost always sucks and does not produce even near what anyone aftermarket claims. My worry would be these being the same way.

In worst case it may end being the sump/bio filter/eco filter light, and I go back to the old standby of the two 250 or two 400 Halides and either PC of T5 for the actinic.

[Poseidon]

Don't be mixed! T5 is VERY EFFICIENT with the individual reflectors, and I actually have MORE par then I did with a pair of 250's. I bleached several corals when I switched to T5 last year, I thought that the T5's would be less light then the halides, in actuality it is MORE, much MORE!

[charlie]

Mike, what height do you have your T5 lites at?

icemark, I agree with Mike. If you are going to spend money, only spend it once.

[Poseidon]

About 3" Charlie, works GREAT!

[charlie]

I won't derail this thread, but thanx Mike.

[Ninong]

With a claimed color balance to the red/blue (17% BLUE light and 83% RED light) panels:

Those are for growing terrestrial plants. The color is way off for a reef tank. Besides, it will make the water look very yellowish.

[icemark]

Those are for growing terrestrial plants. The color is way off for a reef tank. Besides, it will make the water look very yellowish.

Yeah, that is for the grow type lights, the white panels with their 90% 8000K White and 10% 466 NM blue, is much more towards reef colors.

The other interesting thing that they are claiming is that the LED panel will provide the Shimmer similar to Halides, despite the 12"x12" size and multiple light source.

[L018]

The other interesting thing that they are claiming is that the LED panel will provide the Shimmer similar to Halides, despite the 12"x12" size and multiple light source.

In their case that is most likely attributed to led spacing and viewing angle.

[Ninong]

In their case that is most likely attributed to led spacing and viewing angle.

And the type of lens used probably makes a difference, too.

What causes the shimmer effect is the diffraction of the point source of light as it hits the waves. The more concentrated the point source, the more the effect. Fluorescents don't produce that effect because the light is diffuse and evenly distributed across the entire length of the tube.

You might not get the rippling effect with LEDs if you use individual lenses that diffuse the light.

[L018]

And the type of lens used probably makes a difference, too.

What causes the shimmer effect is the diffraction of the point source of light as it hits the waves. The more concentrated the point source, the more the effect. Fluorescents don't produce that effect because the light is diffuse and evenly distributed across the entire length of the tube.

You might not get the rippling effect with LEDs if you use individual lenses that diffuse the light.

I agree.

You wouldn't expect the common 180degree viewing angle diffused LEDs to create a shimmer.

Non-diffused with 18 degree or less would be very good at producing shimmer, but not good at lighting corals high up in the tank, without a large number of them, because you would be spotlighting only parts of the coral.

I was able to light a 20G FW Tank with less than 2W of blue "pirahna" leds. You would need more of course at different wavelengths to produce balanced white light at intensities useful to corals. This was still interesting though because it shows what a 5mm 150 degree viewing angle LED was capable of given the surface agitation of only a HOB Penguin 350.

I'm looking at making a prototype LED panel this summer because I 'm not convinced the right people are attempting these LED panels. The problem I am up against, however, is that I am having trouble finding a wavelength breakdown of a respected MH to spend time replicating in LEDs. If a "mainstream" bulb could be recommended I would greatly appreciate it.

It would be much more efficient to pay a premium for an LED panel producing light comparable to a MH and ditch the chiller.

[icemark]

It would be much more efficient to pay a premium for an LED panel producing light comparable to a MH and ditch the chiller.

yep, that is why I was looking at them myself

[Mavvy]

Okay, the site sez:
"Daylight Light panel unit for BIG cabinet type aquariums powered by simple 110 VAC.
225 LED panel is very powerful. Clean white light with a hint of blue flux is generated. This design takes the LED heat density limit for this panel type (Rec. 30 to 40 gal. per panel) This is the item you need for all large area uniform illumination application (7000K White)."

I've emailed them for a quote for two panels. Frankly, if it's not through-the-roof expensive, I wouldn't mind spending...say...$150 plus my time, if this is a viable method of lighting my tank (37G), without the issues of my 250W MH (the heat from the MH bulb, all the space taken in the stand by the pump, chiller, and plumbing...you get the drift). I could sell the chiller and pump and pay for the LED stuff AND my installation time. If it's not what I want, I'll market 'em on eBay and move on.

[Ninong]

Has anybody used the new LED panels, that I have seen on a couple Hydroponic shops selling them. Not for moonlight but rather for regular tank lighting:

90% 8000K White plus 10% 466 NM blue

With a claimed color balance to the red/blue (17% BLUE light and 83% RED light) panels:


13 watt usage per 12"x12" panel.

any input?

Wow! That would be an ideal color balance for orchids, or just about any green plants. Seventeen percent blue and 83% red is just about perfect. However, that's way too much red for reef aquarium lighting.

There are LED panels designed specifically for reef aquarium lighting. The one pictured above is designed for horticulture and it would not be appropriate for an aquarium, except possibly a freshwater planted aquarium.

Okay, the site sez:
"Daylight Light panel unit for BIG cabinet type aquariums powered by simple 110 VAC.
225 LED panel is very powerful. Clean white light with a hint of blue flux is generated. This design takes the LED heat density limit for this panel type (Rec. 30 to 40 gal. per panel) This is the item you need for all large area uniform illumination application (7000K White)."

I've emailed them for a quote for two panels. Frankly, if it's not through-the-roof expensive, I wouldn't mind spending...say...$150 plus my time, if this is a viable method of lighting my tank (37G), without the issues of my 250W MH (the heat from the MH bulb, all the space taken in the stand by the pump, chiller, and plumbing...you get the drift). I could sell the chiller and pump and pay for the LED stuff AND my installation time. If it's not what I want, I'll market 'em on eBay and move on.

Not all LEDs are the same. Just as with other types of lamps, some LEDs are more powerful than others. For effective reef aquarium lighting, you need the most powerful LEDs ("most expensive").

The only thing that really matters is the amount of PAR incident on the corals and other photosynthetic animals in your tank. That can only be measured with a PAR meter (such as Apogee's) but you can use a cheapy submersible luxmeter (about $90) as a reasonable alternative.

Dr. Sanjay Joshi has tested hundreds of different metal halide lamps with a variety of ballasts from an equal distance of 18" with very expensive equipment and posted the results on his website, which is linked in this forum, but I don't believe he has yet tested LED panels designed for reef aquarium use.

Anecdotal reports suggest that the most expensive of these reef aquarium-specific LED panels are adequate for lighting reef aquariums as tall as perhaps 20" but do not yet provide the same intensity as popular 250w metal halide lamps. The LED industry is evolving rapidly and it is quite possible that LED lighting will replace other forms of lighting for reef aquariums that are not too tall but I don't think we are at that point yet.

The advantage of LED lighting is that all of the heat is directed upwards. Another advantage is that the lamps are supposed to last 8-10 years when used 10-12 hrs/day. Individual LED emitters may fail from time to time and have to be replaced. That's why they are arranged in small panels of three to six or so emitters so that small groups can be easily removed and replaced if necessary.

LED panels that are not specifically designed to withstand a saltwater environment will probably go bad in no time at all. You should not use LED panels designed for horticulture for that reason, as well as the fact that their spectral distribution is designed for green plants, not zooxanthellae.

Before purchasing any LED panels for use over a saltwater aquarium, you need to make sure you are getting the appropriate spectral distribution and that the panels themselves can withstand a saltwater environment. Otherwise the wiring will go bad on you and you will lose your investment.

Do your research first before jumping into the LED lighting game. Good luck!