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HQI lighting - differences in K values |
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#1 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 35
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HQI lighting - differences in K values
OK, I know this is a really basic question, but comparing 150watt HQI lighting, aside from spectrum, is there a significant difference in light quality/intensity from one bulb to another?
Chris |
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#2 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Louisiana
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Yes.
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Ninong |
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#3 |
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Moderator
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Location: Louisiana
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
There are differences even between HQI lamps with the same wattage and the same advertised Kelvin rating. Different brands will almost always test differently. Not only that, but you can get drastically different results for the same lamp but with different ballasts.
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Ninong |
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#4 |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
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Ninong |
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#5 |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Dr. Sanjay Joshi also has this handy reference site where you can compare various lamps by brand and Kelvin rating and wattage against other lamps and with various different ballasts. Check it out.
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Ninong |
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#6 | |
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Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
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Kind regards, Gene. |
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#7 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Thanks, Ninong! I looked at the articles and the guide, but, not being very technologically savvy, wasn't able to figure out how to compare the 3 bulbs I currently have (all double-ended - JBJ 14K, Hamilton 20K, and "Ebay generic" 14K) or my particular ballast. It's a magnetic JBJ "Gearbox." Aside from aesthetics, I'd like to know which of my 3 bulbs provides the most beneficial light for my corals.
I also wasn't able to answer the question - which manufacturer makes the best 150W, double-ended bulb, although I understand that this question doesn't have a simple answer. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks! ![]() |
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#8 |
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Moderator
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Location: Louisiana
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any of your lamps or your ballast listed in Sanjay's search base. That means that he hasn't tested them.
I decided to pull up the BLV 150w HQI DE lamp in both 20,000K and 10,000K and I used that with the PFO M81 ballast. I got PPFD numbers of 28 for the 20,000K and 67 for the 10,000K. That means that the 10,000K is 2-1/2 times as powerful (measured in PAR) as the 20,000K. This is as expected. (Those numbers are with a shield. Since a shield is absolutely required for HQI DE lamps, there is no reason to even consider the unshielded numbers.) The reason I did that is because it's quite possible that BLV makes Hamilton's 150w 20,000K lamps. At least that's the way I believe it was several years ago. I have no idea if that's still good info or not. Maybe Hamilton has a different supplier now? The BLV factory outside Munich makes metal halide lamps under at least four or five different brand names. BLV is a wholly owned subsidiary of Ushio of Japan. Anyway, in case you have no earthly idea what I'm talking about, PPFD = photosynthetic photon flux density. It's simply a unit of measurement of PAR (PAR = photosynthetically active radiation). The more PAR the better. Dr. Sanjay Joshi takes his measurements with very expensive equipment from exactly the same distance. I believe each lamp is exactly 18" from the sensor. It's just a way of getting comparative data. Your lamps are all sort of off-brand, if you know what I mean. In general, 14,000K and 20,000K lamps will be bluer than 10,000K lamps but they will also be a lot less intense. Something to think about.
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Ninong |
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#9 | |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
I don't think you can beat BLV/Ushio. They're all made at the same BLV plant just outside Munich but sold under different brand names. There are two or three other brands made there for other "manufacturers." I used both BLV 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps and AB 250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps. I preferred the BLV. P.S. -- There are a lot of newer brands lately that I'm not familiar with. I have a tendency to give a lot of weight to reliability and reputation, too. Some of the newer bulbs from China in the past have been very disappointing.
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Ninong |
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#10 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
What do you think about bulbs from this supplier: 150W 150 watt 14000K HQI DE Metal Halide Aquarium Bulb - eBay (item 260242298584 end time May-26-08 15:02:50 PDT)
Might it be worth risking $26? |
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#11 | |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
How large is your tank? What exactly is your present lighting? ![]()
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Ninong |
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#12 |
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Just Moved In
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Thanks for the advice. My tank is a 24 gallon, top-removed Aquapod. The lighting is a 150W HQI Viper clip-on. The bulb sits about 4" above the water-line. and the tank is 15" deep. I glued a strip of 8 blue LED lights to each side of the upper top, pointing down, but the effect is barely noticeable when the HQI is on.
You mentioned the big PAR difference between 20K and 10K. What about in comparison with 14K? I think a 10K bulb would totally wash out any of the color on my zoos and ricordia (the main inhabitants). Also - do you know anything about XM, Bluelife, and Phoenix brands? ![]() |
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#13 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
Anyway, here are the test results for the 150w XM HQI DE lamps using the same ballast as above for the BLV (M81) and shielded. XM 150w 10,000K HQI DE = 61 PPFD, XM 150w 15,000K HQI DE = 25 PPFD and XM 150w 20,000K HQI DE = 23 PPFD. As you can see, the numbers for the 10,000K and 20,000K XM are slightly lower than the numbers for the comparable BLV lamps. P.S. -- Usually the 14,000K lamps are not nearly as intense as the 10,000K lamps. Usually they're just a tiny bit stronger than 20,000K lamps. And some 14,000K lamps are actually bluer than some 20,000K lamps.
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Ninong |
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#14 | |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
If you want to keep SPS or a clam or two in your tank, switch to the BLV 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp.
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Ninong |
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#15 |
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Just Moved In
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
I've looked for BLV bulbs at Marine Deopt, Foster's & Smiths's, and Hellolights, but don't see them listed.
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#16 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
I'm sorry - looking back at the thread, I realize that BLV = Ushio. They have them at Marine Depot for $65.
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#17 |
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Just Moved In
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Also - could a clam possibly be happy approx 8- 10" below the Ushio 20K?
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#18 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Louisiana
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
Marine Depot, Ushio 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp. Marine Depot, Ushio 150w 14,000K HQI DE lamp Marine Depot, Ushio 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamp Premium Aquatics, Ushio 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp Premium Aquatics, Ushio/BLV 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamp Hellolights, Ushio 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp Hellolights, Ushio 150w 14,000K HQI DE lamp Hellolights, Ushio 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamp Item Code: 20-5000821From that product description on Hellolights' website, it looks like they're telling you that your "Ushio" lamp is going to arrive with a "BLV label." It really makes no difference one way or the other. All of the Ushio and BLV metal halide lamps are identical and all of them are manufactured in BLV's plant just outside Munich. BLV was bought out years ago by Ushio of Tokyo. Both of the managing directors at the plant in Germany are Japanese.
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Ninong |
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#19 | |
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Quote:
Both maxima and crocea should be placed on the live rock structure. Neither of these clams are naturally found on the sandbed. And all clams in nature face directly up. That provides them with the maximum amount of sunlight and it enters deep into their mantle when the sun is directly overhead. Therefore, clams should be placed facing straight up or, if you absolutely must tilt them a little towards the front viewing pane, don't overdo it. If you tilt a maxima or crocea clam, the inhalent siphon should be downslope from the exhalent siphon. If I were you, I would avoid crocea because it's the most light-demanding and the most difficult to care for of the tridacnids. Tridacna maxima is my favorite clam (other than T. gigas, which requires a really big aquarium). I don't know what to tell you about your chances with a maxima under a 150w 20,000K lamp. It might work, maybe. Daniel Knop, in his book "Giant Clams," recommends a minimum of 250w metal halides for all clams but some of them can thrive under other lighting if they are properly placed.
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Ninong |
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#20 |
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Moderator
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Re: HQI lighting - differences in K values
Chris,
Just for kicks I decided to see if Sanjay had tested the Radium 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamp and he has: here. Wow! PPFD = 47 for the Radium 20,000K. That's a lot better than the other 20,000K and 14,000K lamps. That might be something to consider.
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