Current USA SunPod 2x150W 14K HQI-MH w/ 18 Lunar Lights???

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Hello resident lighting experts,

I am trying to determine if this lighting fixture would be sufficient for my tank. I currently have a standard 55 gallon (approx 48 X 13 X 20) with a 36 inch 96 w power compact. Bulbs include 1x10k Actinic and 1x10k White bulb.

I have tried keeping mushrooms, polyps, clams, leathers, etc but even those don't seem to do very well under these lights. While I do my best to keep the water quality up high as possible and keep all chemical balances where they should be, I am very frustrated with my tank since I have lost almost everything as they slowly withered away!!!

i thought it was my chemical measurments but ph, alklainity, calcium, phosphates, salinity are all fine.

So I want to upgrade to Metal Halides but I have a budget. The price of $500 for this 48 inch fixture is pricy enough for me but I see that this is the least expensive.

So will the 150W be enough lighting for the 20 inch depth or do I need to go to 250? If all works out, I would love to eventually house but SPS and LPS corals so would that make a difference for me to go to 250?

Also, I see that this fixture doesn't have full 48 inch bulbs. This one has 2 small bulbs, 6 inches maybe. Then has a bunch of small holes for lunar lighting. Is this brand fixture simply a ripoff or is this sufficient.

Ultimately I want to buy what I need, nothing more, yet still be very happoy with perfomace and price.

PLEASE HELP!!!

[Ninong]

I have no opinion on the brand of fixture you are considering because I'm not familiar with it and I tend to favor the more expensive German fixtures.

However, I do have an opinion on whether you can light a standard 55-gal tank with two 150w HQI DE lamps. The answer is, "Yes, provided you choose wisely for your particular needs."

Rather than repeat all of the details, I would like you to read all of this thread, making sure to read my post #20 for a recommendation on a specific lamp for a bluish appearance.

If you want to keep clams and SPS, I would suggest considering using the 150w Ushio/BLV 10,000K HQI DE lamps (or anything equal in intensity). If you're not going to keep clams and SPS, you can choose the 150w Radium 20,000K HQI DE lamps.

[shark_bait]

Okay. So 20k for SPS and clams, 10K for LPS??? When you say that you suggest a bulb with the same intensity, your talk about 10k vs 15k vs 20K, right?

If I were to keep both SPS and LPS in one tank, what would you suggest?

You mention that you like German brands? What would be the top brands you would suggest considering the affordablility and availability? Since I have limited access locally, I usually just go to Marine Depot.

[Ninong]

Okay. So 20k for SPS and clams, 10K for LPS???

No, no, no!

None of the 20,000K lamps would have enough intensity for SPS and clams. What I said was that you would need something like the Ushio/BLV 10,000K HQI DE lamps for SPS and clams. The Radium 20,000K HQI DE lamp is just the best of the 20,000K 150w lamps and that's what that other guy was looking for, a nice bluish color with more intensity than he was able to find in the typical 14,000K and 20,000K lamps in other brands.

It's NOT the Kelvin rating that we're really talking about here, it's the intensity -- measured in PAR (photosynthetically active radiation). The Ushio/BLV 10,000K HQI DE lamps in the 150w size happen to have a lot of PAR compared to other 150w HQI DE lamps regardless of Kelvin rating.

When you say that you suggest a bulb with the same intensity, your talk about 10k vs 15k vs 20K, right?

No, no, no! What I was talking about was using a Ushio/BLV 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp for SPS and clams and saying "or similar intensity." I'm talking about any other brand of 10,000K HQI DE lamp that matches the intensity (PAR) of the Ushio/BLV brand. This has absolutely nothing to do with Kelvin ratings.

If I were to keep both SPS and LPS in one tank, what would you suggest?

Assuming we're talking about 150w HQI DE lamps and no other options, then I would suggest the Ushio/BLV 10,000K HQI DE lamp (or anything that matches it in intensity, assuming there is anything that matches it). The Radium 20,000K HQI DE lamp is nice and it has a very attractive appearance and it's better than the other "blue" lamps but it's NOT equal to virtually any 10,000K lamps, especially the Ushio/BLV brand.

You mention that you like German brands? What would be the top brands you would suggest considering the affordablility and availability? Since I have limited access locally, I usually just go to Marine Depot.

I'm talking about German fixtures like Aqua-Medic and Giesemann. Forget about those right now because they're really expensive over here.

Go to Marine Depot. That's a very good place to go! This is the 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp that I like.

You can do your own research on lamps here. Compare PAR measurements for various lamps with various ballasts. Another point to remember is that the older, established brand names have a history behind them. Some of the newer stuff from China may not be as reliable -- meaning may not last as long.

When using that search feature for any HQI DE lamps, always select "Shielded" because you can't operate a DE lamp unshielded. Ever!

The 150w Ushio HQI DE lamp measures 52, 59, 62 PPFD (units of measurement of PAR) on the various ballasts tested. The XM brand has comparable PAR measurements, so that's possibly another brand to consider. It's up to you. I like Ushio because I have used them in the 200w 10,000K HQI DE size.

The Radium 150w 20,000K HQI DE lamp measured 36, 39 and 47 PPFD depending on the ballast used. It measured best when used with the standard PFO 150w HQI (M81) ballast.

Anyway, check out Sanjay's search feature to research the various possibilities for yourself.

Here is another option. It's in your price range. I don't believe the T5 tubes are in individual reflectors but at least it has six 54w tubes and the size of the fixture is ideal for your size tank. It's certainly something to consider. I believe this is what you're looking at right now. The "PowerPaq" 150w 14,000K HQI DE lamps were not tested by Sanjay, according to his search engine. It's quite possible that you may not be satisfied with those 14,000K HQI DE lamps. It would cost you another $120 to switch to better lamps. It's also quite possible that the six 54w T5s would be better in your particular situation.

The ideal fixture for your tank would have two 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamps and two 54w HO T5 true actinics for supplementation but that fixture would cost hundreds more than your budget.

Again, you have to figure out what's best for you based on what you intend to keep and what appearance you like. If you get the metal halide fixture, I would suggest switching out the lamps after the first six months or so to something better -- either Ushio/BLV 10,000K or Radium 20,000K depending on what you like and what you intend to keep.



P.S. -- I don't believe Current USA is a real brand name. I think it's just the name of the U.S. distributor. He's bringing in lots and lots of aquarium equipment from many different manufacturers and calling all of it Current USA.

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A million thank you's

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Ok, dumb question. So using a metal halide unit isn't going to produce more light/intensity than a T5? It all about the bulb itself from what I an understanding. Are there limitations to a T5 that a metal halide unit offers?

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Ninong,

Please see the lamp I have currently. Without feeling obligated to getting too technical, can you tell me what crucial elements I am missing using this lamp compared to what I would get if I were to purchased on the list earlier.

You suggested a t5 above with 6 54W bulbs. I have heard some say that 6X54 w bulbs would be 324w of light but other have said that you still have only 54 watts.

Coralife 36 Inch Aqualight With 1-96W Actinic / 1-96W 10,000K Lamp Square Pin Base (with fans)

[Ninong]

Ok, dumb question. So using a metal halide unit isn't going to produce more light/intensity than a T5? It all about the bulb itself from what I an understanding. Are there limitations to a T5 that a metal halide unit offers?

Metal halide lamps are point sources of light. Therefore, you get the nice glitter lines in the tank that mimic natural sunlight. It also means that the intensity of the light will be stronger directly under each lamp than it is at the edges of the field of coverage. With fluorescent lamps, you won't get glitter lines because they are not point sources of light. Their light is distributed along the length of the tube, although it falls off dramatically near the ends of the tube.

With the right reflectors, HO T5 lamps are quite good at what they do. The corals (meaning mainly their symbiotic zooxanthellae) really couldn't care less where the light came from or what produced it as long as it's of adequate intensity and in the appropriate spectral range. The only thing that matters is the light incident on the surface of the coral... or anemone, or clam, or whatever other phytosynthetic animal you're trying to maintain. Besides the intensity of the light (which is always measured in PAR) and the spectral distribution of the light, the photoperiod (meaning duration) is also important.

There are no serious differences between HO T5s and 150w HQI DE metal halides that you need to concerned yourself with at this moment in time for the size of your tank and the stuff you plan to keep. Some people might go overboard and stick two 250w HQI DE lamps plus two 54w HO T5s for actinic supplementation over a 55-gal tank if they are the type that like to go nuts on lighting but I don't think we need to get into that discussion right now.

[Ninong]

You suggested a t5 above with 6 54W bulbs. I have heard some say that 6X54 w bulbs would be 324w of light but other have said that you still have only 54 watts.

6x54=324. Therefore, if you have six 54w lamps, you have a total of 324 watts. If you place each of those lamps in a separate reflector, which greatly improves total light delivered into the tank, and line them up next to each other so that they cover a decent amount of space over the tank, they will produce very good light in the tank. Provided your water column is not more than about 24" tall. I'm not a fan of using just T5s over a tank that is 30" tall. Metal halides with T5 actinics would be much better for that size tank.

The only thing that matters is the PAR that you can measure at given spots under your lamps. If you place an Apogee PAR meter 12" below the water's surface and it measures the same reading with T5s or with metal halides, then it doesn't matter how the light got there. For one thing, because of reflector design, light spread, heat, and other factors, you would have to mount metal halides higher above the water's surface than you would a fixture with just T5s. To get optimal light spread, you might have to place your metal halides 9-10" above the surface but you could place the T5s 4" above the surface.

Coralife 36 Inch Aqualight With 1-96W Actinic / 1-96W 10,000K Lamp Square Pin Base (with fans)

That fixture is sized for a 36" tank, not a 48" tank like you have. It's the wrong size fixture for your tank and it was not a good choice from the beginning for that reason. However, you can still keep softies with that setup. Just don't attempt SPS or clams.

Once again, the ideal setup for your particular size tank -- in my opinion -- would be one with two 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamps and two 54w T5 true actinics. That's assuming price is no object.

After that, a fixture with two 150w HQI DE lamps would be very nice and you could even equip it with 20,000K Radium lamps if you want a bluish appearance. However, this would not be ideal for SPS and clams. For SPS and clams you should switch the lamps to good quality 10,000K HQI DE lamps and place the SPS and clams directly under each lamp, not near the edges of the field of coverage. Actually, since your tank is so small front-to-back, you're covered just about all over. Each HQI DE lamp covers an area of about 20"x22".

Just as good as the two 150w HQI DE lamps over a 55-gal tank would be to stick as many 4-ft long HO T5s in individual reflectors as you can squeeze into that amount of space.

I'm going to look for a response I gave a few days ago that illustrates what you can accomplish with just T5s compared to what you can accomplish with humongous lighting. Read this thread and be sure to follow the links I provided in my post #4 in that thread.

[shark_bait]

I am sold on that Nova fixture you suggested. At first I was afraid to see the maintanance cost for replacing 6 bulbs but they seem to be rather inexpensive (~$20 per bulb).

My only other concern is space. My tank is in-wall so I may not have the full 12 inches to fit the fixture. I'm guessing I have closer to 8-10 inches. I see that 4 and 5 bulb fixtures may be available but then I would be sacrificing overall output right? Is there a way to get less bulbs with more wattage per bulb?

Since I have a ledge above my tank (a stud in the wall) this may get in the way of the fuxture if it has legs. Can I simply place the light directly on the top of the tank without concern of overheating the tank?

So if I am to go with this unit, I can pretty much have any corals I choose, given I eventually replace the bulbs accordingly. In other words, I will have plenty of intensity for the SPS corals to thrive and not just survive?

[Ninong]

Is there a way to get less bulbs with more wattage per bulb?

No, all of the 4-ft long HO T5 lamps are 54 watts.

Since I have a ledge above my tank (a stud in the wall) this may get in the way of the fuxture if it has legs. Can I simply place the light directly on the top of the tank without concern of overheating the tank?

Well, that means the metal halide fixture was never an option in the first place. Most manufacturers recommend a minimum of 30 cm (12") above the water's surface for the bottom of the fixture containing HQI lamps but many hobbyists do run them as close as 8" above the water. Not only that, but the top of that metal halide fixture would have gotten VERY hot. Too hot to touch. You would have needed clearance above the fixture, too.

As long as the T5 fixture has a spash shield beneath the fluorescent lamps, then I guess you could place it as close as 3" above the surface but most people would probably place it a little higher than that. If the fixture comes with legs, then a good height would be simply going with the legs that come with it. Do you have clearance on both ends for ventilation?

I don't know how much heat you will get placing it that close. My only experience is with 250w HQI DE metal halides placed 11" above the water's surface and they did give quite a bit of heat to the tank.

So if I am to go with this unit, I can pretty much have any corals I choose, given I eventually replace the bulbs accordingly. In other words, I will have plenty of intensity for the SPS corals to thrive and not just survive?

I think you would probably be good to go for SPS and clams provided you choose the right tubes. You can't pick all actinics or anything weird like that.

[shark_bait]

Yes - there is clearance on both ends for ventilation.

Well,, the ledge is 6 inches above the tank but it only hangs approx 2 1/2 inches over the tank (it's a stud). I just measured the amount of clearance I have at the very top of the tank and it looks like I have 9 inches total becuase I have a hang-on over flow box and input tubes.

I see that there are 4 lamp T5 fixtures that are approx 7 inches wide. Would this be okay for me to still keep SPS (arcros, montis, etc)

Let's say something like this:

48 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 4x54W T5HO

Or if I were to simply add this to my existing lighting:

48 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x54 watt T5 HO 10K/460nm

If I were to add the Nova 2 lamp fixture, it would give me something like what you see in the attached illustration of my tank (tank.doc). The black is the over flow box and white is open space (~ 12"x3"). It would over hang by 2 inches over the back but the PC light has approx 2 inches border where there is no light so it would be fine. This way I would have lighting covering almost all of my tank, I wouldn't be wasting the PC light and new bulbs I have, and I would be saving money on the T5 and still accomodating the setup that I have. Plus it would give me 108W + 192W = 300W.


Do you see any downfalls to this? And would I be able to go with SPS?

[Ninong]

I see that there are 4 lamp T5 fixtures that are approx 7 inches wide. Would this be okay for me to still keep SPS (arcros, montis, etc)

Let's say something like this:

48 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 4x54W T5HO

Or if I were to simply add this to my existing lighting:

48 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x54 watt T5 HO 10K/460nm

If I were to add the Nova 2 lamp fixture, it would give me something like what you see in the attached illustration of my tank (tank.doc). The black is the over flow box and white is open space (~ 12"x3"). It would over hang by 2 inches over the back but the PC light has approx 2 inches border where there is no light so it would be fine. This way I would have lighting covering almost all of my tank, I wouldn't be wasting the PC light and new bulbs I have, and I would be saving money on the T5 and still accomodating the setup that I have. Plus it would give me 108W + 192W = 300W.


Do you see any downfalls to this? And would I be able to go with SPS?

I don't know why, but I always get an error message telling me the program terminated early every time I try to open a doc in Word. However, to answer your question, I really don't know if you would be able to keep SPS and clams with just four 54w HO T5s (two daylight and two actinic). You would have to experiment to see what thrives. The same would hold true for adding two new HO T5s to your existing lighting.

The reason the six tubes work better is because you would be covering the entire top of the tank. That way the inner areas would have more concentrated lighting but your entire tank surface would be covered. If you were to stick a luxmeter (or PAR meter, which would be better) 12" beneath the surface in the center of your tank with the six-tube fixture overhead, you would get a higher reading than you would with the four-tube fixture overhead. How much the difference would be I really can't say, but there is no doubt that it would be better with the six tubes.

As far as adding two new HO T5s to your present fixture is concerned, that would work but it would be not quite as good as going with just four new HO T5s. For one thing, you would have more drop-off at the ends of the tank since your present fixture is only 36" long.

Here is the bottom line: Having HO T5s in individual reflectors would be best for your situation. The fixtures you are looking at probably do not have individual reflectors (you would have to ask but usually if they have individual reflectors they say so in the ad copy). So the best option is probably off the table. Next best is probably having HO T5s in a fixture that doesn't use individual reflectors, which is what I think you are looking at. Again, you would have to ask the vendor to be sure one way or the other.

Having six new HO T5s would be better than having just four. Having four new HO T5s would be better than having just two added to your current light fixture. All three options would work but obviously having six tubes is better than having four. You would have to experiment by placing SPS and clams (meaning T. maxima) fairly high on the rock structure in an area that receives the best light to begin with to see how things go. Don't start with T. crocea because they require the most light of all. Your tank is too small for any of the other Tridacna clams.

If you choose to go with two new HO T5s added to your current fixture, I would run two daylight T5s and then run your same PCs in the old fixture (one daylight and one actinic). You could always switch to two PC actinics later on but that would slightly reduce your total PAR. A daylight PC tube has approximately 2-1/2 times the PAR of an actinic PC lamp of the same size. I haven't seen measurements of daylight HO T5s compared to actinic HO T5s but I assume that the daylight HO T5s are at least twice as intense (measured in PAR) as the actinic HO T5s.

[shark_bait]

Ok. I understand now. Thank you.

On a side note, what submercible powerheads do you recommend to ensure I have adequate water movement in my tank.

Any idea if this new powerhead is decent? If I were to get 2 of them, one for each end, how much gph would I need?

Hydor Koralia Circulation Pump/Powerhead UL

[Ninong]

Yes, I think two of those would be very nice for your 55-gal tank. I would mount them at each end of the tank sort of towards the back and have them aimed at the center of the front glass. That should give you adequate turbulence. I think the 400-gal/hr size should be sufficient. If you want to go with more flow, you could choose the 600-gal/hr size but I don't think you really need that. It's really a matter of personal preference. There's nothing wrong with going with the 600-gal/hr size except that you might have a lot of movement of your sand bed in some spots, assuming you have a sand bed. It's up to you.

If you do a search on the board using "Hydor Koralia" as your search term, I think you will find comments by other members who have tried these. I remember seeing a few posts about them.



P.S. -- You could always open a new thread in the Tanks/Equipment forum with the title "Need advice on Hydor Koralia."

[shark_bait]

Great.

Okay, this is the last question. I will figure out a way to fit the Nova 6 lamp fixture on my tank. Do I need to upgrade the lamps either right away or after 8 months or so? If so, what would you recommend so that I can have everything in my tank?

[Ninong]

I think you will be in great shape with six 54w HO T5s over a 55-gal tank, even if they aren't in individual reflectors.

I really have no personal experience with the various brands of T5s but I have read good comments about the Giesemann brand. Also, one of our moderators, Poseidon, has switched from metal halides to T5s, so I will ask him what he thinks.

[Poseidon]

Hi Shark_bait!

Is this the fixture you are looking at?



If so, then YES! (To a couple questions.)

Yes, you will be able to keep pretty much any coral or clam that you should choose. (Provided you maintain all the other "stuff".)

Yes, I would invest in new bulbs, sooner then later. The Current brand bulbs are less then ideal. I do use a mix of Geismann bulbs myself, and I am very happy with them. Currently over my 90 gallon tank I have 4 bulbs overdriven on an icecap 660 ballast, they are 2 Geismann Aquablue + (which is a nice crisp WHITE bulb), 1 Pure Actinic, and one Actinic + (which is a blue bulb). I also added a fifth bulb, another pure actinic, that is on a Workhorse 5 ballast all by itself. For some reason I got in the habit of calling the "Pure" actinic bulb a "True" actinic in previous posts, sorry about that.

I am in the process of building a new DIY light fixture, I'll post pictures of that this weekend....

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[quote=Poseidon;185640]

Yes, I would invest in new bulbs, sooner then later. The Current brand bulbs are less then ideal. I do use a mix of Geismann bulbs myself, and I am very happy with them. Currently over my 90 gallon tank I have 4 bulbs overdriven on an icecap 660 ballast, they are 2 Geismann Aquablue + (which is a nice crisp WHITE bulb), 1 Pure Actinic, and one Actinic + (which is a blue bulb). I also added a fifth bulb, another pure actinic, that is on a Workhorse 5 ballast all by itself. For some reason I got in the habit of calling the "Pure" actinic bulb a "True" actinic in previous posts, sorry about that.
quote]

Thanks Poseidon.

My lighting unit is all set up and it makes a world of difference. With that said, I am using the generic lighting which came with it. Above, you recommend getting Geismann bulbs. What combination of bulbs would you recommend for my 6 light unit - 2 Aquablue +, 2 Midday, 1 Pure Actinic, and 1 Actinic +?

Also, I notice that 4 bulbs currently light up on one switch (3 actinic, and 1 white), then the last 2 whites come on with my other switch. Which bulbs should go on first to reflect the sunrise and sunset? 1 Actinic +, 2 Midday, 1 Pure Actinic?

And how long do you recommend I keep each set turned on? I currently have approximately 14 hours for the first switch (3 actinics & 1 white) and 12 hours for the second (2 whites)