Mike and any other experts, a lighting question on what you believe is best to have

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Time has proven that many SPS tanks can be run on T5 HO lamps and the Icecap ballast offers even better PAR and control of the lamps.

It was suggested to me by Mr.Firemouth that If I not as yet have the MH, That I should scrap the idea and go strictly with T5 HO with Icecap ballast.

So please comment any thoughts in this area to have lighting well, or best enough for a SPS system, the tank is 240 gals. So if you not agree with this idea, then please do list what you would suggest?

Thanking you in advance

Buddy

[Poseidon]

What are the dimensions of the 240? Larger tanks are still best lit by MH for the most part.

I run 6 T5's over my 90, on IceCap ballasts. I like the results, but on a 6 ft tank, you would need a LOT of 36" bulbs, either 6 or 8 per side, meaning 12 to 16 bulbs, which gets you either 3 or 4 ballasts.

The initial investment may be a little cheaper with MH, but the monthly cost MAY work out to a few dollars cheaper with T5. It will be pretty close either way I think.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

The 240 is 8x2x2' Also what if I will stay with 4x250 watt MH, what other lighting, VHO or any other type of lighting. being that im now to only have one large SPS tank, I will be extremely picky on the SPS corals, im only hoping that the lfs that I will deal with this, will tell it like it really is.

Buddy

[Poseidon]

I just saw a tank, a 180, lit by Radiums, 2x250 and a 400 in the middle. That tank also had T5 actinics, it looked blue, but the coral color was outstanding. If you did the Radiums, I don't think you would NEED any other bulbs...

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Mike, being that I will be staying with the 240, rather then with the 180, im guessing that I will still have me 4x250 watt MH. So, I really then would be needing to know pacificly the type of T-5 bulbs and ballast, being that their, top of the line. Again, the tank is a 240 8x2x2', I will have a chiller. Thanks
Buddy

[Papa Doug]

Having run both, several times but only halides on a large tank, I can offer my view. I would not run T-5,s on a tank that size. You would need a minimum of 4 or better yet as Mike said, 6 - 4ft. bulbs on each side.

I ran 4 on my 90 but just HO, not overdriven like Icecap. They were fine but my 90 was much better when I switched to a 6 bulb fixture. So if one wished to run 12 4ft. bulbs and several ballasts, plus all the correct high end individual reflectors, then I would say go for it. I would guess it should look very nice, with good growth and colors and mucho flexibility in bulb selection.

If it was my tank, I would run the Radiums Mike suggested, in Lumenarcs reflectors and driven by HQI or a good electronic ballast in the least. With Lumenarcs, one could almost get away with 3 but I suppose in a full blown sps reef, 4 would be better, esp. once its full of growth.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

A conversation that I had with Keith for my lighting question>

Post by argi (Keith):

Hey Buddy,
DE= Double ended and SE=Single ended (or mogul socket)
The DE bulbs will give a higher PAR then their SE counterparts.
This is a SE bulb:

They can be used over open water as the glass casing protects the UV light coming out (you will want to be careful about water splashing on them though, that can cause them to break).

This is a DE bulb:
They don't have the glass tube around them, so what ever pendant or fixture you use them in it should include a glass shield. They also will require an HQI ballast or electronic ballast to fire them. These are the bulbs I personally prefer to use again for the fact that their PAR will be higher then the SE bulbs.

Are the lights being mounted in a canopy or are they going to be hung above the tank?

IMO I would go with 4 pendants (these guys Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite or Lumen Max 3) for the pendants.

For your ballasts I would go with either two of the Sunlight Supply Dual 250 watt Blue Wave Ballasts or two of their Galaxy Dual Electronic Ballasts.
As far as what bulbs to go with that will really depend on what A) are you using supplemental lighting (actinics) and B) how white or blue you like the tank.

When I had my 220 I started out with just metal halide and ended up supplementing with actinics. I added on four T5 bulbs and found it helped out quite a bit for not only giving the corals some more color, but also for better coverage of light over the tank (but my tank was 30" front to back).

If you don't want to use supplemental lighting and you like a more blue tank, go with bulbs that are 20K (there are many to choose from). If you like the tank a little more white, go with a bulb between 10-15K. The higher you go in K rating, the more blue the bulb will be. BUT not all bulbs will look the same that are rated the same K. For example the Phoenix 14K bulb (one of my favorites) is fairly blue (almost 20K looking) where the Ushio 14K bulb is a lot more white (even a hint of yellow IME).

If you are going to use actinic supplementation, I would suggest going with a bulb around 10K.

Hopefully that helps out some...if not let me know.
________________________________________________
Keith



Post by old man of the sea:

Thanks Keith, before the lights to be on order, I will email James the full solution you completed for me and that his too email me exactly what he will put in and after its agreed what his listed to your own discriptions, he will then be told that its a go, that he can now order the equipment to finish the lighting system for my 240. His now away with his wife and kid, will return Monday. He also needs to come to my house for the young man he sent to see what needs to be down, I told him that I have to feel that his man isn't at the top of his game when it comes too a SPS tank. Most of what he suggested, I told him that it will not meet with my needs to what im looking to do here, he even suggested to keep the 175 MH for the tank, for he said that he has 175`s running on his tank for SPS corals. I told him that if his tank is 18" deep, it could work well for him, but not in my 24" deep tank.
Thanks
Buddy
PS: I will show it as well to Rich (Mr.Firemouth)




Post by argi (Keith):
Sounds good. Keep us posted on the final outcome. Like I mentioned there are many people running T5's that are very happy with them while others have switch to T5's and ended up going back to MH. My personal opinion is to use MH.
Keith



Post by old man of the sea:

Of the two suggestions of with four different items to select from, I like better these two of the four, the Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite and the Sunlight Supply Dual 250 watt Blue Wave Ballasts. But on the T5 solution, your tank 6" more then my 240 is, what can you better suggest? I'm thinking that if you had four on that tank, that maybe I would require only three, if not two. Can you be more specific? Your being a great help too me in this lighting subject, and one other item needed is the best idea ballast for the T5. Thanks
Buddy




Post by argi (Keith):
My tank was 72 x 30 x 24 high. A single metal halide pendant will generally cover a 2' x 2' area. I ran three pendants across my tank and got good coverage left to right, it was front to back that I had issues. That is when I added the T5 bulbs for additional coverage.
For an 8 foot tank, you will need four pendants to cover left to right. They should also cover front to back, but if you wanted to add supplemental lighting you should easily have enough room.
I am not exactly sure how you will be setting up the supplemental lighting (4 four foot bulbs, two in the front and two in the back running end to end maybe, or all four in the front or back???). Either way I would suggest looking at the IceCap ballasts. I have been very happy when I used them. If you ever have a problem with the ballast, send it into IceCap and they will fix it (no charge for the first 3 years).
Keith
==================================================
Mike,Doug and others:
I use extension cords that are from Lowes, 14 to 16 gages and im figuring to change these every other year or so. Also, the surge protectors that im to use here are from Tripp-Lite, isobar, premium surge suppressor. I gotten these a few years after I moved here into my new home.

SO what it is needed here is, what strenght T5 lighting should I add with the MH, and how many and the ideal ballast for them?

Thanking who might be able to assist me here
Thanks
Buddy

One question that I notice that I not answered is that the lights will be mounted to a canopy, sorry

SO Doug, being your suggesting not to mix both, the MH with T5`s, then im guessing that im back to my first thought in this project that I will have MH with VHO.

Buddy Thanks again, I hope that the above post isn`t so confusing

[Papa Doug]

I have to read all this somemore first but as to mixing halides and T-5,s I dont think I said thats a no-no. Halides and T-5,s used together make a great combo for lights.

One thing we did mention, is that with bulbs like Radiums, they are not really ness. but good actinics may be needed with lower color temp bulbs. For the evening look, any actinics could be used, including t-5, normals or vho, {which I still thnk are the best for actinic only}.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

I called Tripp-Lite, and they said that 2350 Joules is for the only the power surge that comes into your line, and not how much it can handle in what is plug into it. It total watts is 1440 (12amps) So at most, I will be having three of these Tripp-Lites on the 240. I also spoken to the lady who was on the phone, and im looking to later get me a electric backup battery for the tanks. I know that it will be more then $1,300, this im sure. What I need to do first is how the T5 specs on the lighting I will have and chiller so that im asking for something that will handle a great deal of electrical power. I might even be able to get this backup while the system is being rebuild, and its begins it aging. So now, I gotten us the info on what my surge protectors could and can handle. Now lets get a full description or specs on the T5 lighting.

What im thinking here is that I get two complete type of specs. One for only T5 lights, and the other is 4x250 watt MH with T5. Sometime next week James is looking to come by to review the 240 gal tank and the work it requires and new equipment.

But just for an opinion, what type of return pump would you have? The some that is in place, will be replaced as well, its a 60 gal tank and I told James that I would like to have as large a sump that will fit in. Also, yes, Lowes confirmed that the lower Gauge heavy duty extension cords are to handle more plug ins.

I found another hobbyist from RC who is selling frags on line, and at a better price as well, then any on line or LFS. I will email him later to ask if his still selling frags, and that in a matter of months, I could be a new buyer with him.

Buddy Thanks ;)

[Old Man Of The Sea]

After careful thought and consideration, I decided to forget about the idea of battery back ups, their only good for short term periods, like an hour or so. Im looking for something much better in that, and only a home generator can provide it. Only, im not sure if im to go with a gas generator or propane use. Still, if im to buy a better gas generator, it would provide me with far better protection then a battery back up. At this moment, im not so sure as yet to what size, all im sure about at this time is that I will need 15,000 watts or better.

I actually gotten myself a headache these past few days in tying to view the many different generators out there. The logic from going from battery back up idea to even a gas generator if a better idea, for im sure to get around 5 hours if not longer with a generator. To which the battery back up will last an hour I figure at most. The company said its good for two hours, I feel that its being over rated.

Also, I learn a few days ago of the chiller that Jeff placed on the 240, is a 1/4 HP to where it would need a 1/2 HP chiller. So now im in need to get a $700 chiller for the 240. Maybe the chiller on the tank now, will work better on the two tank system.

The company tripp lite, not said anything about prices, only the first time when I spoken to a woman did she said around $1,300, but then she was looking I think as a lesser cost battery back up.

I still need to look back in the forums where I listed my stocking list for the 180, a bit upgrade will be needing and im no wish to go through the whole selection pick again.

Also, on the idea project to have a pair of Ribbon eels, in a soft coral reef tank. The majority of the live diet it seems, will only be a number of different damsels, with the attempts of non-live feedings of octopus and squid, clams and anything else I can try and feed them. But of course, all the food will be bought fresh as possible, and frozen myself in air tight sealing wraps.

Later, I will have to figure on if the damsels will be in the same QT as the major reef fish and corals, or I will setup another but smaller tank.

Buddy

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Im still looking for a complete specifications suggestion on the MH& T5 or T5 lighting for my 240>

So far, I have nothing deferently to which type of lighting I will have. My original idea is 4x250 watt MH and whatever T5 lighting I should add to it. Then it was suggested to me to drop the MH idea and go strickly with T5 lighting, but still im no suggestion in that idea could be suggested at this time. I solve the problem on the generator problem in order to protect my investment. And either this coming week or the next, we will see what plans need to be made for the rebuilding of the 240, for everything is wrong on this tank, including the chiller, for when James comes by the see the tank, I will give him $600 towards a 1/2 HP chiller, there is a 1/4 HP on this tank at the moment.

So what it is that im looking for, is some better idea in the lighting I should look for. Bulbs, ballasts and if there better sockets to use, I rather have it and reflectors. I need a complete specification listed on these, as well im looking for that at the end before the lights are completely off, that I have cool blue. Thus far, im no solution to this question.

The tank again is a 240, measuring 8x2x2' and im much looking to have SPS corals, as well as clams, Ricordea and Acans. The lights will be done sometime after the filtration system is check and completed as the sump needs to be replace as well. Keith at MD has made some suggestion on lights bulbs and refectors, Im not sure if I could post the full name here, if there be certern restrictions or not.

I know that MH will give me brighter lighting over the T5. Still, T5 are better over VHO. It all depends I guess on what the person mostly is looking for. Im planning, sense I will be dropping the 180 SPS tank idea, will be stocking I think a bit slower, looking for the possibly best brighter colored corals.

Buddy

[charlie]

Why don't you do a little searching around on here to see what other folks have as far as lighting goes. I have an 8 foot tank, and I have 6 MH over it. As far as I know, I am one of the few on here with a tank that large. Read over what I have. It was suggested to you that the T5 option would require a BUNCH of T5 bulbs and individual reflectors. I am not quite sure what you are looking for as far as Specs ???????
Sanjay's site will give you all the specs you need as far as what MH bulb is good.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Thanks, here is my pick>

4x250w MH.
Two Reefoptic 3 on Icecaps with 14K Phoenix.
Two Aquamedic pendants with 14k Phoenix.
8x54w T5 on Icecaps
4 total Blueplus
2 Aquable specials
2 6500

It went 2 Bluepluses in the front
Then the MHs
1x blue plus
1x6500
1x blue plus
1xAquablue

It draws about 1200 watts at the MH ballasts
And 800 or so watts for the T5s
So around 2000 watts total for 1600 watts of light.

Next problem ;)
Buddy