150w HQI MH vs standard 250w MH advice

[julesjt]

Wowsers, that's pretty expensive fixture.



If I had 24" wide and 24" deep tank I would probably go with the Tek fixture



Here's the specs for it, 8 bulbs should cover 2 feet tank pretty nicely and if you raise it a tad it should cover 72" nicely as well. Some drop off at the ends but that's presents some possibilities for less light needy corals.
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...unlight_Supply

PS. The price is almost half including bulbs. I would forgo the bulbs, though, and probably get my own from either Gieseman or the ATI. It's not as pretty as the ATI fixture, that's given, but the price is rather nice.

Well 760 bucks isnt bad, the 250w MH HQI fixture I was looking at is 1200. I may look into this, especially it has bulbs with it. Crap I was almost set to go MH and now I am back to T5 because I can use the money saved on life in the tank.

[julesjt]

That is a good fixture Gene, and it only would leave 6" inches on each end of the tank, and as you said raised up a bit, I think it would be ideal, and the price is comparable to the Nova extreme pro 72 considering you are getting more light out of the tek for about 130 - 150 bucks more, I saved the link to my equipment folder for my build


Thanks Gene

Me too, with bulbs and individual reflectors. This may just work I hope physically it looks ok over my 72" tank.

You think you would go with this over the nova?

[julesjt]

free shipping too!!! I may buy tomorrow, I think I may go with this. This way in 2 years when LED lights come down in price and are proven I upgrade and 768 investment is better than the MH 1200 dollar inventment.

I really hope 60" is not a problem. I wonder if the sides of the tank will show shadow or darker because the fixture is shorter.

I did get an email back from the grim reefer and he did say 60" would be fine with a 72" 180.

[Ninong]

I really hope 60" is not a problem. I wonder if the sides of the tank will show shadow or darker because the fixture is shorter.

Where are the overflows in this 72" long tank? Do you have dual overflows, one in each rear corner? If so, that part of the tank doesn't need any light at all. And it's not a good idea to place anything too close to the glass. You need a minimum of 4" on both sides and in the front if you expect to be able to clean the glass... 6" would be even better.

Of course, if your tank is being custom built, you could always have it designed with just one overflow across one end of the tank. This works out well for people who are planning an in-wall installation because they can simply not have the overflow area showing. That way all of the viewable area is completely unobstructed... no visible overflows at all.

I haven't seen a 6' tank with a 5' fixture in person but I have seen a couple of 7' tanks with 6' fixtures and they looked just fine. They were standard Oceanic 210-gal tanks (84"L x 24"W x 24"H) with dual corner overflows. In the interest of full disclosure, I guess I should add that the fixtures over both of those tanks were metal halides with VHO actinic supplementation. However, as long as you don't try to position your T5 fixture too close to the water, I think you will be fine.

[Parrothead]

It has dual overflows on the back set in about 6 iches from each end of the tank, you can see the actual tank in Jules New 180 build in the reef forums.

[Ninong]

Wowsers, that's pretty expensive fixture.

Yes, it's definitely rather pricey but that's their top-of-the-line version in their largest fixture (10 tubes). They do offer a less expensive version and they offer fixtures with fewer than 10 tubes. I just posted their largest, most expensive fixture. That fixture is considered the gold-standard, but I'm sure you can get very good results with something less expensive.

If I had 24" wide and 24" deep tank I would probably go with the Tek fixture



Here's the specs for it, 8 bulbs should cover 2 feet tank pretty nicely and if you raise it a tad it should cover 72" nicely as well. Some drop off at the ends but that's presents some possibilities for less light needy corals.
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...unlight_Supply

PS. The price is almost half including bulbs. I would forgo the bulbs, though, and probably get my own from either Gieseman or the ATI. It's not as pretty as the ATI fixture, that's given, but the price is rather nice.

Yes, that's a decent fixture at a very good price: $786.95 w/lamps & free shpg.

That same vendor offers the 8-tube ATI powermodule for $1239.00 w/lamps & free shpg. ($452.05 more than the Sunlight Supply fixture) ATI makes a less expensive model called the SunPower and it's $729.00 w/lamps for the 6-tube fixture. I don't think they make the SunPower in the 8- or 10-tube versions.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw the 10-tube ATI powermodule out there as the top-of-the-line in T5 fixtures. Giesemann makes a 5' T5 model called Matrix that comes with up to 12 80w tubes. I don't know how it compares to ATI but I'm sure the price isn't cheap.

[julesjt]

Yes, it's definitely rather pricey but that's their top-of-the-line version in their largest fixture (10 tubes). They do offer a less expensive version and they offer fixtures with fewer than 10 tubes. I just posted their largest, most expensive fixture. That fixture is considered the gold-standard, but I'm sure you can get very good results with something less expensive.





Yes, that's a decent fixture at a very good price: $786.95 w/lamps & free shpg.

That same vendor offers the 8-tube ATI powermodule for $1239.00 w/lamps & free shpg. ($452.05 more than the Sunlight Supply fixture) ATI makes a less expensive model called the SunPower and it's $729.00 w/lamps for the 6-tube fixture. I don't think they make the SunPower in the 8- or 10-tube versions.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw the 10-tube ATI powermodule out there as the top-of-the-line in T5 fixtures. Giesemann makes a 5' T5 model called Matrix that comes with up to 12 80w tubes. I don't know how it compares to ATI but I'm sure the price isn't cheap.

After much thought I think I will go with the 60" and go with this Tek one with bulbs.

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...unlight_Supply

My tank has glass tops and I want to be sure to have room to open the lid for feeding. How high above the tank is good for a fixture like this? 6 to 8 inches?

[Ninong]

Yes, I think something in the range of 6-8" would be about right considering the size of your tank. If you position the fixture too close to the water, you won't get adequate light spread. On the other hand, the higher you positon it, the more light spill you get. Light spill refers to the light that ends up outside the tank. Check out these pictures of a 59" ATI powermodule mounted over a 63"L x 31"W x 24"H tank. As you can see, the fixture is mounted a considerable distance above the tank and yet this guy has gorgeous SPS corals all the way down to the bottom of the tank.

Have you operated a reef tank with glass tops before? That could be a problem when it comes to heat. It may also make a calcium reactor a necessity because you won't have enough evaporation to make limewater (Kalkwasser) a viable alternative. Also, the glass tops will reduce the light intensity (and PAR) by approximately 15% compared to running without glass tops. To confirm this, just borrow a luxmeter and position it a couple of inches below the glass top and check the reading. Then remove the glass top and check the reading again. Obviously an Apogee PAR meter would be even better but a cheapy $97 luxmeter will do just fine for this comparison. My estimate of 15% reduction is based on the reduction in PAR when using a 3/16" tempered plain glass shield under a light fixture as opposed to running the same fixture without a glass shield. If the glass tops over your tank are thicker than 3/16", then they might reduce the light intensity more than 15%.

If you plan on running with glass tops, you should try to reduce the amount of pump motors exposed to water as much as possible. Obviously you don't have much choice when it comes to a return pump and a pump to operate your skimmer but I would avoid submersible pumps. And you might want to consider using the newer types of propellor-style powerheads that have their motors outside the tank.

[Parrothead]

Ninong,

Already linked him to that tank article, I caught up with Jules in his other thread about the glass tops, you covered a few things that slipped my mind, and I caught a few that slipped yours, oxygen exchange, saltcreep, cal. build up on the tops, additional maint. for cleaning regularly to not lose any light. Thanks for catching the heat issue for me

[zhenya]

After much thought I think I will go with the 60" and go with this Tek one with bulbs.

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...unlight_Supply

My tank has glass tops and I want to be sure to have room to open the lid for feeding. How high above the tank is good for a fixture like this? 6 to 8 inches?

I think you can hang it about 8" above the tank to start with, see how things are progressing and go from there. I agree with Ninong that having intense light right next to the glass is not a good idea. I'm sure once you have corals in there you'll be able to determine how high you want the fixture to be. Those suspension cables are adjustable, so you can simply raise the fixture when you need to feed/clean or reach inside the tank for whatever reasons.
As far as those glass tops are concern, you'll find down the road that those are counter productive. You would want open top tank for better gas exchange to help with the ph and heat exchange. Closed lids never helped with keeping tank cooler, in my honest opinion. I had them in the very beginning on my 110g tank but got rid of them after a month, after tiring of trying to keep them clean(they grow algae under the bulbs like crazy ).
A little drop off in the intensity on the sides of the tank presents some unique possibilities with keeping variety of corals that otherwise are doomed in the very bright (intensely lit) aquariums. Like some LPS corals (Acanthastreas and such) would show much better coloration and polyp extension. It might look a little darker on last 6" of both sides of the tank but I got over it with my fixture. It was originally equipped with two 150w MH, double ended, and two PC's that were 130w but 48" long, I believe. Spacing of the MH bulbs is redicilous and shorter fluorescents made ends of the fixture completely useless. So I had a bit of the "evening shade" on the sides...

[Ninong]

Yes, there are a lot of reasons why glass tops over reef aquariums usually don't work out. I have seen them over freshwater tanks but very, very few reefkeepers run reef tanks with glass tops. I'm sure you could do it with a good chiller and a really good protein skimmer to provide air exchange.

However, just about everybody I have ever seen who starts out with glass tops over a reef tank eventually removes them.

[Ninong]

Just to throw something new into the mix: your tank is really designed for three metal halides in a 6' long fixture. That's because of the two cross braces. All I'm saying is that the ideal fixture for a tank with two cross braces is one with three metal halides and fluorescent actinic supplementation.

That's not taking any of the money factors into consideration. You might discover that the 5' T5 fixture is cheaper and cheaper to operate. It's just that T5 fixtures work best over thanks without cross braces. As you can see in the pictures of Szymon's 63"L x 31"W x 24"H tank, it has no cross braces at all. His tank has a single corner overflow.

[julesjt]

My 90 had tops and had 150w mogul MH bulbs. My sump is completely open and I was thinking of a fan blowing across the top of the water in the sump. My 90 never had heat issues and its sump was open.

now I am not opposed to removing the tops, but the wall the tank is next to can get pretty messy with salt. Maybe I remove the plastic part of the top and move the glass top to the back by the wall and have the front half open.

I will experiment a bit.

[Ninong]

An open-top sump with a fan blowing across the surface will definitely improve evaporation. You will need either an open-back stand or ventilation fans in the stand.

If you ran your 90 with glass tops in place under 150w halides, then you were able to get away with that because you weren't running 250 watters or 400 watters. However, you really cut into the intensity of your 150w lamps with the glass tops in place. It can be done but there are a lot of issues that you have to deal with when running glass tops on a reef aquarium.

[julesjt]

An open-top sump with a fan blowing across the surface will definitely improve evaporation. You will need either an open-back stand or ventilation fans in the stand.

If you ran your 90 with glass tops in place under 150w halides, then you were able to get away with that because you weren't running 250 watters or 400 watters. However, you really cut into the intensity of your 150w lamps with the glass tops in place. It can be done but there are a lot of issues that you have to deal with when running glass tops on a reef aquarium.

I hear you and I will look into it for sure. As for the stand it is open back stand.

If I do a piece of plexy or something towards the back of the tank that will help it from get a salty wall. Maybe I just do 2 or 3 inch cover in the back.

So the Tek 8 bulb 60" fixture the way to go?

After the lights I am still stuck on my sump. I want a 5 section 40 gallon long sump for skimmer in one section and refugium in the other section. The other 3 sections are the overflow, bubble trap and return.

[Parrothead]

Check this guy out for diy sumps, he's the master in that area

Melevsreef.com - Welcome!

[zhenya]

An open-top sump with a fan blowing across the surface will definitely improve evaporation. You will need either an open-back stand or ventilation fans in the stand.

If you ran your 90 with glass tops in place under 150w halides, then you were able to get away with that because you weren't running 250 watters or 400 watters. However, you really cut into the intensity of your 150w lamps with the glass tops in place. It can be done but there are a lot of issues that you have to deal with when running glass tops on a reef aquarium.

Difference between 150w bulbs and 250w bulbs is huge in terms of heat.
When I had my 75g tank running with two SE 250w bulbs, plus two 140w VHO's I couldn't operate it without using a chiller. Temperature would reach 90 degrees in about 5-6 hours if chiller would shut down. My corals grew like mad but the heat issue was getting to me and I am glad that is over.
My 110g tank needs heater plugged in to help keep temperature at 80 degrees, otherwise it wouldn't reach 79 by the end of the day. There are lots of way to deal with temperature issues, one being that room where tank is needs to be large enough and have a central AC for summer month. Larger the tank the larger room needs to be to help with heat issues. My 75g tank was in the 12x12 office room with central air and one window. I felt that if I had a larger room, 14x14 or larger, I could have dealt with the heat differently (fans, evaporation and hot air removal to outside). Something to consider when making plans for the reef aquarium.

[julesjt]

Check this guy out for diy sumps, he's the master in that area

Melevsreef.com - Welcome!

I know this guy but isnt it all DIY, I would like to just buy what I need.

[julesjt]

Difference between 150w bulbs and 250w bulbs is huge in terms of heat.
When I had my 75g tank running with two SE 250w bulbs, plus two 140w VHO's I couldn't operate it without using a chiller. Temperature would reach 90 degrees in about 5-6 hours if chiller would shut down. My corals grew like mad but the heat issue was getting to me and I am glad that is over.
My 110g tank needs heater plugged in to help keep temperature at 80 degrees, otherwise it wouldn't reach 79 by the end of the day. There are lots of way to deal with temperature issues, one being that room where tank is needs to be large enough and have a central AC for summer month. Larger the tank the larger room needs to be to help with heat issues. My 75g tank was in the 12x12 office room with central air and one window. I felt that if I had a larger room, 14x14 or larger, I could have dealt with the heat differently (fans, evaporation and hot air removal to outside). Something to consider when making plans for the reef aquarium.

This is going in my gameroom which is in the basement. I have central air and this is the coolest room in the summer and winter.

No windows for reach the tank and I will have complete light control.

I will keep the DT open for the most part and I will be going with the T5 system which is less heat than the 250w MH I was going to go with. I do not want a chiller and will not get a chiller that would suck.

[zhenya]

I know this guy but isnt it all DIY, I would like to just buy what I need.

I bought my sump from Marc before, why do you think it is all DIY? Did he stop selling them?