150w HQI MH vs standard 250w MH advice

[julesjt]

I am building my new 180 gallon reef system and was going to get the coralife system which has 3 x 150w HQI MH bulbs, Actinic and lunar lights.

I want to make sure the 150w HQI are sufficient.

I dont care about doing SPS at the bottom of the tank and it will be mostly LPS coral. Also I didnt want to get the standard 250w MH because of the electric bill.

What are some opinions on the HQI systems?

And are the 150w HQI bulbs equal to the standard mogual socket 250w Bulbs?

I refuse to use a chiller and this fixtures runs pretty cool from what I seen at my LFS.

[julesjt]

Oh one more question, I was looking at the coralife which looked really nice but does anyone know if there is a different brand I should go with?

[charlie]

Before we get to far into this, what are the dimensions of the 180?

My first thought is you are going to want the 250W halides, the 150w will not give you the depth you will need. JMHO

[zhenya]

I agree with Charlie.
My 110g tank is 24" tall and my 150w bulbs are not making it...
It is OK if you want to keep only corals that require less light but acroporas and such are out of the question. I have couple of acros on the very top of the reef but that is it.
250w double ended bulbs would be perfect for your 180 if it is at least 24" tall tank.
As far as Coralife goes, if they don't make fixtures with 250w bulbs in them go for another manufacturer.
I bought Current Electric fixture (outer orbit, I think) and it really sucked until friend at Ice Cap rewired the whole thing with their ballasts and install T5 bulbs for actinics. So I would recommend anything else but them. They are cheapest but you get what you paid for...

PS. Before you make up your mind about what wattage bulbs are better, and if you want to use metal halides are not, check out this fixture. It is only 60" long but it is the idea of not using MH that I am talking about. (Since you are in the planning stage ;) )

[julesjt]

I agree with Charlie.
My 110g tank is 24" tall and my 150w bulbs are not making it...
It is OK if you want to keep only corals that require less light but acroporas and such are out of the question. I have couple of acros on the very top of the reef but that is it.
250w double ended bulbs would be perfect for your 180 if it is at least 24" tall tank.
As far as Coralife goes, if they don't make fixtures with 250w bulbs in them go for another manufacturer.
I bought Current Electric fixture (outer orbit, I think) and it really sucked until friend at Ice Cap rewired the whole thing with their ballasts and install T5 bulbs for actinics. So I would recommend anything else but them. They are cheapest but you get what you paid for...

PS. Before you make up your mind about what wattage bulbs are better, and if you want to use metal halides are not, check out this fixture. It is only 60" long but it is the idea of not using MH that I am talking about. (Since you are in the planning stage ;) )

I am doing the 6 x 2 x 2 size tank, and with the 24 inch depth I want the 250w HQI.

I found an aqualife 72" fixture with nice actinics and lunars too. And the fixture ran pretty cool. So that is where I am at right now unless there is a good MH replacement that will save on my electric bill.

[Ninong]

I am building my new 180 gallon reef system and was going to get the coralife system which has 3 x 150w HQI MH bulbs, Actinic and lunar lights.

I want to make sure the 150w HQI are sufficient.

I would probably choose 250w HQI lamps for a standard 180-gal tank (72x24x24) but the 150 watters would be adequate for your stated purpose: "I dont care about doing SPS at the bottom of the tank and it will be mostly LPS coral."

My preference would be for a fixture with three 250w HQI metal halides plus T5 actinics. However, I have seen a lot of European tanks that are 24" tall that run with just 150w HQI lamps.

Also I didnt want to get the standard 250w MH because of the electric bill.

Okay, this is where it gets tricky because the power usage of metal halide lamps depends on the particular ballast used. Another thing you have to remember is that you should really be comparing PAR output of lamp 'A' against PAR output of lamp 'B'. What does that mean? What it means is that a typical 14,000K or 20,000K 250w HQI DE lamp may produce less PAR than a good 10,000K 150w HQI DE lamp, yet the 150w lamp uses 40% less electricity.

Iwasaki makes a 150w 6500K medium base lamp that produces more PAR than the 14,000K and 20,000K 250w HQI DE lamps but the color requires you to use actinic supplementation for sure. At least it would for me.

What I'm trying to say is that if you're thinking of getting either 150w or 250w HQI DE metal halides, you have to compare 10,000K vs. 10,000K or 20,000K vs. 20,000K. And you really have to check Sanjay's website for each lamp first before choosing one over the other because the PAR output can vary tremendously depending on the brand... and the ballast.

Another possibility would be to go with nothing but HO T5 fluorescent lamps. The only problem here is that your tank is 72" long and the longest fixtures for these lamps are 60" long (80w lamps), unless you go with a fixture that uses two 3' lamps in each row.

You could get by with six 80w HO T5s but I would go for eight 80w HO T5s. Both ends of the tank would not receive as much light as the rest of the tank. It all depends on where you want to place your priorities. I would definitely consider 80w HO T5s over a 5' long tank that is no more than 24" tall but I'm not sure I would do it over a 6' long tank.

The T5 setup would be cheaper on electricity than using three metal halides plus actinics for supplementation.

Here are some rough numbers for you: each 250w metal halide lamp running 10 hrs/day is going to cost you about $7.50/mo based on 10 cents/KWH. Each 150w metal halide lamp would cost about $4.50/mo. Each 80w (5') HO T5 would cost about $2.50/mo running 12 hrs/day. You always run your actinics long than your metal halides if you're running a setup with both metal halides and actinics. If you're running just HO T5s, you usually run them 12 hrs/day.

Remember, you can get just as much PAR for $4.50/lamp/mo from a 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp as your can for $7.50/lamp/mo from a 250w 14,000K or 20,000K HQI DE lamp.

You have a lot of options when it comes to fixtures. The best metal halide fixtures, IMO, are the German fixtures: Giesemann or Aqua-Medic. However, they can be pricey, especially Giesemann.

Examples:

Here is a 173-gal tank (51" x 28" x28") that is lit with ONLY two 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamps (BLV brand) plus two little 24w actinic compacts. That's an Aqua-Medic fixture that is located a good 10" above the water's surface. And that's a 28" tall tank with SPS corals all the way down to the bottom of the tank.

Amazing 206-gal tank lit with only 80w HO T5 lamps. That tank is really spectacular and it has SPS all the way down to the bottom.

P.S. -- My personal preference would be for 250w HQI halides with T5 actinics but I'm just trying to show you that you really can get by with less.

[julesjt]

I would probably choose 250w HQI lamps for a standard 180-gal tank (72x24x24) but the 150 watters would be adequate for your stated purpose: "I dont care about doing SPS at the bottom of the tank and it will be mostly LPS coral."

My preference would be for a fixture with three 250w HQI metal halides plus T5 actinics. However, I have seen a lot of European tanks that are 24" tall that run with just 150w HQI lamps.


Okay, this is where it gets tricky because the power usage of metal halide lamps depends on the particular ballast used. Another thing you have to remember is that you should really be comparing PAR output of lamp 'A' against PAR output of lamp 'B'. What does that mean? What it means is that a typical 14,000K or 20,000K 250w HQI DE lamp may produce less PAR than a good 10,000K 150w HQI DE lamp, yet the 150w lamp uses 40% less electricity.

Iwasaki makes a 150w 6500K medium base lamp that produces more PAR than the 14,000K and 20,000K 250w HQI DE lamps but the color requires you to use actinic supplementation for sure. At least it would for me.

What I'm trying to say is that if you're thinking of getting either 150w or 250w HQI DE metal halides, you have to compare 10,000K vs. 10,000K or 20,000K vs. 20,000K. And you really have to check Sanjay's website for each lamp first before choosing one over the other because the PAR output can vary tremendously depending on the brand... and the ballast.

Another possibility would be to go with nothing but HO T5 fluorescent lamps. The only problem here is that your tank is 72" long and the longest fixtures for these lamps are 60" long (80w lamps), unless you go with a fixture that uses two 3' lamps in each row.

You could get by with six 80w HO T5s but I would go for eight 80w HO T5s. Both ends of the tank would not receive as much light as the rest of the tank. It all depends on where you want to place your priorities. I would definitely consider 80w HO T5s over a 5' long tank that is no more than 24" tall but I'm not sure I would do it over a 6' long tank.

The T5 setup would be cheaper on electricity than using three metal halides plus actinics for supplementation.

Here are some rough numbers for you: each 250w metal halide lamp running 10 hrs/day is going to cost you about $7.50/mo based on 10 cents/KWH. Each 150w metal halide lamp would cost about $4.50/mo. Each 80w (5') HO T5 would cost about $2.50/mo running 12 hrs/day. You always run your actinics long than your metal halides if you're running a setup with both metal halides and actinics. If you're running just HO T5s, you usually run them 12 hrs/day.

Remember, you can get just as much PAR for $4.50/lamp/mo from a 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamp as your can for $7.50/lamp/mo from a 250w 14,000K or 20,000K HQI DE lamp.

You have a lot of options when it comes to fixtures. The best metal halide fixtures, IMO, are the German fixtures: Giesemann or Aqua-Medic. However, they can be pricey, especially Giesemann.

Example:

Here is a 173-gal tank (51" x 28" x28") that is lit with ONLY two 150w 10,000K HQI DE lamps (BLV brand) plus two little 24w actinic compacts. That's an Aqua-Medic fixture that is located a good 10" above the water's surface. And that's a 28" tall tank with SPS corals all the way down to the bottom of the tank.

You are a bad dude my friend!!!!

Ok well I have been thinking of going with an all T5 fixture now. I didnt know about the 72" thing being a problem but I am will to do two 36" fixtures if needed over going with 1 60" fixutre which will look weird.

So can you give me a layout of the bulbs? I will need 4 bulbs of someting and 2 bulbs and 2 bulbs of two different colors. I still can't get a hold of that info.

And do you know of good fixtures in the T5 area? 2 x 36 or 1 x 72" fixtures whatever I can get. It will be cheaper than the 250w HQI fixture I was looking at.

And maybe in 1.5 or 2 years I will see where the LEDs are and upgrade.

[Ninong]

Yes, LEDs are probably a good way to go but the decent LED fixtures are very expensive and some of the manufacturers keep going out of business after they sell the fixtures. Most of the LED fixtures on the market just aren't quite as good as decent HO T5s or metal halides. Not yet anyway. Plasma arc lighting is the probably the real wave of the future but they're probably at least three or four years down the road.

You can definitely get by with a 5' long fixture with 80w T5s over a 6' long tank if you want to. It just means that four or five inches on either end of the tank won't have full-strength light but you really won't be able to notice it and you shouldn't be putting stuff too close to the glass anyway.

The problem with 6' T5 fixtures is that they have to use two 3' long T5s in each row, if you know what I mean. So instead of six lamps you would have 12 and instead of 8 lamps you would have 16. You would have to search around to see if there are any 6' long T5 fixtures on the market. I'm not really sure.

I know there are a lot of really nice 6' long fixtures that combine metal halides with T5 actinics (either 150w halides or 250w halides). Aqua-Medic's fixture are moderately priced and Giesemann's fixtures cost a little more.

[Ninong]

Here's a nice fixture for a 6' long tank. That's $799.99 and it's three 250w HQI DE lamps plus four 39w T5s for actinic supplementation. That's the sort of fixture I would probably go for but you might not want that much.

Oops! I just noticed they say it's temporarily not available.

[Ninong]

To answer your question about 72" fixtures that use T5s, they use two 39w T5 lamps in each row. The 61" T5 fixtures (which are hard to find over here) use one 80w T5 lamp in each row.

I'm not all that up-to-date on what's out there, you'll have to check around with the various online vendors to see what's on the market now.

[Ninong]

Here's another clue: all of the cheaper fixtures are coming from China. You wouldn't know that from the name because they're being imported by American-sounding companies. I have no idea how the most recent ones are doing. All I know is that there have been problems with these fixtures in the past.

[julesjt]

Here's a nice fixture for a 6' long tank. That's $799.99 and it's three 250w HQI DE lamps plus four 39w T5s for actinic supplementation. That's the sort of fixture I would probably go for but you might not want that much.

Oops! I just noticed they say it's temporarily not available.

Well I am willing to go $1,200 bucks on a fixture I just want the right one. I am more on the T5s now because of heat and power usage. I dont want to have to deal with a chiller and crap.

I will look at T5 technology but if I go 8 bulbs how many should be actinic and etc?

And what kelvin do I need for each bulb?

[zhenya]

Well I am willing to go $1,200 bucks on a fixture I just want the right one. I am more on the T5s now because of heat and power usage. I dont want to have to deal with a chiller and crap.

I will look at T5 technology but if I go 8 bulbs how many should be actinic and etc?

And what kelvin do I need for each bulb?

Check out this website, I think this guy has pretty much every possible layout covered. And I believe he even got some of the fixtures covered as well.
As far as fixtures go, if you would like to buy something made in US, I would go with Aquatinics. I met the owner few years ago when they were just starting out with fixtures and ballasts that stayed cool. Not sure if he still the owner of the company or not, but you can email them to see if they still make fixtures. They did couple of years ago and their T5 fixtures was really nice looking.

PS. I totally agree with Ninong that a T5 fixtures are totally capable of lighting any tank that is 24" tall.
And I also agree on the Chinese made fixtures.., I hate mine.
I wish I could trade it for a nice 60" T5 fixture but at this time I'm not willing to shell out $1200 bux for it.

[julesjt]

Aquactinics Constellation has a 72"

now I am back to think about MH HQI due to the price of this fixture without bulbs.

[zhenya]

Aquactinics Constellation has a 72"

now I am back to think about MH HQI due to the price of this fixture without bulbs.

Yeah, 14 bulbs would be quite costly to replace all the time.
I wonder why no one is making 72" fixture to accomodate 105w 72" bulb?

[Ninong]

I wonder why no one is making 72" fixture to accomodate 105w 72" bulb?

Is this something new? I didn't know they even made them that size.

[zhenya]

Is this something new? I didn't know they even made them that size.

I'm not sure as I haven't seen them in person, I took the size from the grim reefer's site that I posted earlier. I'll check with Steven Pro to see if they make a 72" bulb or not, although I doubt IceCap would do it if all they build is 48" fixtures. I know they have 60" bulbs but I never seen larger than that at the stores here.

[Ninong]

ATI builds fixtures long enough to accomodate the 80w HO T5 tubes. They're very nice, but rather pricey. That's the ideal size for a 5' tank.

Here's what that fixture looks like in action: Amazing 206-gal tank lit with only 80w HO T5 lamps. That tank is really spectacular and it has SPS all the way down to the bottom. That's over a tank that is 63"L x 31"W x 24"H.

[zhenya]

Wowsers, that's pretty expensive fixture.



If I had 24" wide and 24" deep tank I would probably go with the Tek fixture



Here's the specs for it, 8 bulbs should cover 2 feet tank pretty nicely and if you raise it a tad it should cover 72" nicely as well. Some drop off at the ends but that's presents some possibilities for less light needy corals.
http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...unlight_Supply

PS. The price is almost half including bulbs. I would forgo the bulbs, though, and probably get my own from either Gieseman or the ATI. It's not as pretty as the ATI fixture, that's given, but the price is rather nice.

[Parrothead]

That is a good fixture Gene, and it only would leave 6" inches on each end of the tank, and as you said raised up a bit, I think it would be ideal, and the price is comparable to the Nova extreme pro 72 considering you are getting more light out of the tek for about 130 - 150 bucks more, I saved the link to my equipment folder for my build


Thanks Gene