I finally gotten the quote I been waiting for

[Old Man Of The Sea]

OK, I finally gotten myself the quote I been waiting for, this is why I not said anything of this because i had nothing that I could say to what everything would be, but also, due to the cost at this time for both the 240 and a all new 40 gal breeder tank, the total cost for both tanks at this time is $14,062.55. $2,311 is the total for the 40 gal breeder tank and $11,751.55 is the total to rebuild the 240 SPS tank. Last something others knew was that I had a heating unit problem, that has been fixed, that and the lost of one of my cats cost me the $3,000 I saved from Jan thru March, I will not have to raise $6,540.00 for a new AC & heating Unit. Im figuring to have for this project before this year ends, $6,000 and also, the stand & canopy for $2,400 is already paid for.
　
So now on the lighting, you can see if the T5 lights will hold up the end of not having only three 250 w MH on a eight foot long 240 gal tank, how you feel it would hold up? I am also however at this time, accepting donations for a old mans dream, I am really however young at heart. So here it is, now I only need to wait a year or more and the dream will become a reality and by that time, I would had waited from the first thought in planning this, more then 10 years.
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Buddy`s 240 Gallon and 40 Gallon Breeder quote

Ok Buddy, for the 240 gallon reef/eel/fish tank you are looking at:
New stand and canopy ( around 40" inside)--------------------------- = $2400.00
New sump( 125 gallon aquarium converted) -------------------------------------- =$375.00
Pump to skimmer ( provided by Buddy) ------------------------- =$0.00
Pump to chiller( external mag drive md40 960 gph) ---------- =$119.00
Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph)---- =$460.00
400 lbs. of live rock( cured $6.99 per lbs.) ---------------------- =$2796.00
MH ballasts ( 3- 250 wt. ballasts by Galaxy)----------------------- =$215.00 each
Reef Optix 1 pendant and tempered lens (250wt.-3 times)----=$219.00 each
Metal Halide 250 wt. 14000k (3 bulbs)----------------------------=$114.00 each
IceCap T5 4’ strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) --------- =$528.90
Cooling fans (6 - 4" fans)------------------------------------------- =$332.00
Live sand ( 100 lbs. soft Fiji live sand)--------------------------- =$125.00
3" pvc inserts for eels ----------------------------------------------- =$65.00
Glass inserts( for top of 240) -------------------------------------- =$85.00
Filter media(for 125 sump) ---------------------------------------- =$92.65
Bulkheads and fittings( for 125 gallon sump) -------------------------- =$68.00
R.O. booster pump( aquafx adds 50 psi) ----------------------- =$156.00
Pvc pipe work( for return lines and to new pumps) ---------- =$45.00
Hang on refugium( AquaFuge Hang-on Refugium) ---------- =$335.00
Labor for all work --------------------------------------------------- =$2125.00

We also have as new technology on the market from IceCap a new light unit that incorporates LED lighting. With this new style of light if you get the entire light set( MH, LED’s, and T5’s --- 2 - 4’ units) cost around $2000.00, but the LED strips (4’) cost around $95.00 each. Also, in the past couple of months a new style of ballast has hit the market that enables us to use one ballast instead of three. They are priced a little more than the Galaxy unit, but you save in the long run.
　

For the 40 gallon breeder you are looking at:
40 gallon aquarium( doesn’t come with overflows)--------------- =$110.00
Hang-on overflow ------------------------------------------------------- =$90.00
Stand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- =$195.00
Canopy (has to be custom made) ------------------------------------ =$585.00
Glass top ------------------------------------------------------------------ =$38.00
T5 light strip( 4 light unit by AquaticLife with LED‘s) ---------- =$335.00
Sump ( use one of Buddy’s) -------------------------------------------- =$0.00
Return pump( Mag 9.5 around 900gph) ----------------------------- =$120.00
Heater (300 wt. unit) ---------------------------------------------------- =$40.00
Drain and return lines----------------------------------------------------- =$38.00
Skimmer( use one of Buddy’s) ----------------------------------------- =$0.00
UV Sterilizer(lifeguard ultraviolet 40 wt.) ------------------------- =$225.00
Labor for 40 gallon retrofit --------------------------------------------- =$535.00


I hope this helps you in calculating your costs. The prices that I gave you also don’t include any structural work we might need to do to shore up the floors, that would be extra. Also, the labor rate quoted above is only for the work mentioned above.
James Mirgoli
President
HydroConcepts, Inc.

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Any thoughts would be taking serious, after all, were talking some serious money here, LOL
Buddy

[7digits]

I'd talk to someone else. That's an awful lot of cash. Someone on rasoc.org (reef aquarium society of charlotte) is selling live rock from the teardown of Mussin Muhommad's tank at 2 to 3 dollars a pound. Check the forum there. That would knock about $2000 off the total.

[charlie]

Buddy, I am gonna throw my opinion in here, like it or not. You are being fed a line of crap!!!! You know enuf to do this thing by yourself, I do not understand why you are depending on some guy who is only interested in making a ton of money off you. A few examples:
400 lbs of live rock in a 240???????

Filter media for sump???????

Hang on refugium?????

$2000 for labor?????????????

This guy is laughing his way to the bank, can we get a little realistic here. I am sorry if my opinion doesn't match yours but this is BS.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

7digits, yes it is a lot of cash to do the very same tank one other I paid even more then that and that guy giving me nothing but cr*p. It was discussed however and the idea came about that I would look for lesser cost on line and buy the same equipment if I could fine it for so much less. I listed already these three items so far that i will order them myself and I think just with those three items with two of them are to get three of the same that the savings there will be around $1,000.

You know enuf to do this thing by yourself

Yes charlie, I do know much myself in what I want to do and all, but you must be forgetting just one small detail here. Its not so much my age for I feel young at heart and its all mostly due too my grandchildren. But however, I am very much with a disability and I couldn't even carry a pail of water because of it and im with great difficulties to try going on my knees, I need something to support me to help myself get up, i can not do it all on my own. Now perhaps in telling you this, you have a much understanding why I couldn't do the tank setup myself.

these so far is the first items I was giving links to spend far less and the prices listed after each item are what the cost will be:

Galaxy ballasts here for $129.99 ea
Reef Optix 1 pendant for $109.99 ea
Aquafuge Hang on Refuge, the large one is only $164.99

Buddy

[charlie]

Buddy, I did not honestly know about your disability, I am very sorry if I offended you. I will read back and post another thought later tonite or tomorrow, again, I hope you accept my sincere apology

[7digits]

You really should check out rasoc.org. In the livestock for sale forum there is alot of live rock for over half the price you are being charged.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

charlie, you didnt know, even that any numnber of forums some do know, but it would then had been great if I was able to do this myself, i wouldn`t had waited as long as I did keeping the same passion for what I wanted to do here within my 240 gal tank. So an apology was not nessersary here and it would take some other then telling my im well enough knowledge in the marine hobby and only because I am as I am today and had been in this hobby for more then 60 years, im not about to call it quits just because I need somebody else to do certain things for me, but my water changes and stuff, i manage it myself.

I gone and sign up, but im no idea if I done it correctly but I am however a member. but im confused however if there be the same connection, rasoc.org I think i will have to call when im able to, might not be until Monday for after signing up again at paypal, I became confused and no idea if it was done correctly.

Buddy

PS. do you know if the membership card helps when buying on line? Corals, fish as well as aquarium equipment.

[7digits]

I think the club sponsors offer a 20% discount. They all have their own section in the forums and usually whenever they get a shipment they post their inventory in their forum before it goes up for sale that way club members get the first shot at them. I'm sure they would ship. Some members sell coral also and some will ship. Other members and sponsors are good with tank builds. I'd put up a post in the reefer's lounge similar to what you have posted here. I'm sure everyone would be willing to advice and or assistance. The sponsors are members and are mostly small local shops that are ran because they love the hobby and just try to break even. Judging from some of their tanks I'd say they are in it to be able to cherry pick their corals. But put a post up there and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction.

[Parrothead]

Buddy, I am gonna throw my opinion in here, like it or not. You are being fed a line of crap!!!! You know enuf to do this thing by yourself, I do not understand why you are depending on some guy who is only interested in making a ton of money off you. A few examples:
400 lbs of live rock in a 240???????

Filter media for sump???????

Hang on refugium?????

$2000 for labor?????????????

This guy is laughing his way to the bank, can we get a little realistic here. I am sorry if my opinion doesn't match yours but this is BS.

Just to add a little more on to what Charlie mentioned above and your post about buying the fuge on line, with the 125 gallon sump, there would be more than enough room for the fuge in the sump, nice size one too, and have you thought about a different lighting set-up, possibly T-5 HO, I know that depends on the overall height of the tank but it might be worth looking into, currently you have got $1800 in lights, not counting bulbs, If a T-5 fixture would be adequate, you would probably be able to shave a min. of 500.00 to 800.00 off the cost of the lights, jmho.

[Parrothead]

Buddy,

One other thing, actually there are several, but this one jumps out at me, please verify very carefully where and what kind of live rock you are being quoted on. The only reason I could see needing 400 lbs of live rock in a 240 is, if it is very, very, very dense rock, i.e. gulf aquacultured rock, their are several farmers that are selling these pieces of cement for 1.99 -2.99 per pound, sounds good:eek3::eek3::eek3:, buyer beware, I'm speaking from experience here, it's garbage. So double check on the where and what kind of rock

[Old Man Of The Sea]

The other items I already know about their true cost and amoung them his charging me more then $888.00 and that is from just four of the quotes giving to me, four!
　
　
Items I need some help on>
IceCap T5 4’ strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) --------- =$528.90
Live sand ( 100 lbs. soft Fiji live sand)--------------------------- =$125.00
3" pvc inserts for eels ----------------------------------------------- =$65.00
Glass inserts( for top of 240) -------------------------------------- =$85.00
Filter media(for 125 sump) ---------------------------------------- =$92.65
Bulkheads and fittings( for 125 gallon sump) ---------------------- =$68.00
R.O. booster pump( aquafx adds 50 psi) ----------------------- =$156.00
Pvc pipe work( for return lines and to new pumps) ---------- =$45.00 Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph)---- =$460.00
400 lbs. of live rock( cured $6.99 per lbs.) ---------------------- =$2796.00 New sump( 125 gallon aquarium converted) ---------------------- =$375.00
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Cooling fans (6 - 4" fans)------------------------------------------- =$332.00
I need to see what kind of cooling fans that will be mounted into the canopy that are worth that much for i know of, or heard of cooling fans that do cost around $60 or so, and their not from radio shack
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What is more strange here, his quote not include a chiller, calcium or phosphate reactors and skimmer and yet he is way up high in cost, but yes, he wants to make a killing, i already touch base with a new lfs, and the owner happens to remember me when he was working for Jeff at fish world, he remembers how wrong Jeff done me. Only one kicker to this, he not work with SPS tanks, and I told him that I only need you to help me put the tanks together and he said his solid booked through the next number of months, I told him that this will take a bit longer for me to get most of the equipment I will need, I only not know how much it will cost right not, but it should be far less costly then James price quote.

That is also the reason why I would like to get exact data on the remaining items and once completed, i will print it out and give James a surprise visit. I also have another new lfs to check up about building this tank later on, but it would prove to be far better to buy the equipment myself with the assistance of a very few in just three different forum links, what one can not think of, the others will.
　
This was quoted to me: SO yes his cost is higher and you can save a lot by purchasing stuff on your own, but some places will not assist you in the set up if you don't buy the supplies from them. This is going to be up to you to either find a place that is willing to work with you on the prices, find a place that will set up everything for you once you have accumulated all the pieces or just go with the place that has the higher prices and let them set everything up for you.

I will call this one other lfs i know and ask them if they will do this later on, and if its because I will buy the equipment myself, i will then speak to the owners and tell them what im looking to have here and how I not wish to have cheap equipment and as well, equipment out of date or has or will become discontinued. It would be worth the shot to try.

Buddy

[Parrothead]

Buddy,

I just did a quick google search for aquarium maint. and setup in or near Hillsbourgh NC, you have 6 of them, you might want to call them and see what they would charge for setting up the aquarium, this way you are not dealing with a lfs but someone who sets up and maintains aquariums, you might get lucky, order all you can on-line, save that money and have one of these guys set it up for you

[Old Man Of The Sea]

That is what James does, James not have a LFS but is someone who does aquarium maintenance and installationas well. im starting to run a search as well and se what comes up, if you not mind, would it be OK if I can call you?

[7digits]

I'm just wondering why you would need cooling fans for a T5 light, let alone 6 $55 fans. Also, what kind of filter media?

[7digits]

Sorry, just looked up in the post and saw the halides. I wish I knew more about the plumbing. If I did i'd drive the 2 hours to help you out.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

On the lighting, I had the thought all the way through up till James decides to change it from 4x250 w MH to only three and a number of times he changes on his own from what I totally decided on. Like when it was the skimmer, we both agreed on one skimmer type and in a email his suggesting another and I didn't like that, so I bought a used MR4 32" tall and the guys calcium reactor and chiller.

Again, James is making another change as well he changed what my MH reflectors will be for i told him the larger lumesbright and as well, I wanted the external pump Iwaki and he selected with not asking me about it first with a sweetwater pump and I not like that as well, for the most part of this pump, its over seas, and I never known anyone here in the states with this type of pump.

There are pother things wrong here as well, like the live sand he selected or priced, for he quoted ( 100 lbs. soft Fiji live sand) for $125.00 I found a link for 45LB White Fiji Aquacultured Live Sand with Copepods for $25.00 (for the same $125 I can get 225 lbs of live sand even if it cost a little more to ship it be far worth it and i get more.

Also his quote for the 40 breeder T5 lights, he is really quoting one that normally cost $289.99 and that be a cheaper set then what I would want to have. I was always thinking of one better then $400 or more and as for this media he speaks of, im no idea for I could see only once in a while here and there to run carbon and the carbon im planning on cost $800 from the burky site, sorry im not able at this time to locate that link, and the carbon as well is to run two carbon and phosphate HOB sump reactors, so whatever he is talking about to this media, its not needed.

Also, his quote on a UV, first would i need it on a QT or the main tank? Second, his quote again is higher then I found it for $179.88. the heater to i could get for $ 22.89. And as well his quote for the 40 return pump( Mag 9.5 around 900gph) $120.00, its really 950 gph and cost only $85.49. And as for the next quote on the 40, Hang-on overflow quoted for $90.00 and I find it for only $ 59.99 and besides all that, I been dead set on a overflow box and drill the tank, again he makes a change without checking with me.

This is why if not by this Friday if i can have everything ready, I will show up at his home next week, but i need all the quotes giving if not most of them to show much is wrong or changed with what I normally been telling him i wanted to do here.

Buddy

[Old Man Of The Sea]

right now it not pays for anyone to drive two hours here to help, nothing is ready for the tank, as is I can never understand after i told James a long time a go that I wanted all the best in the equipment selected here and im not seeing this, im seeing equipment from what his quoting me on, equipment that i will only have to upgrade at some earlier date. His lighting quote for the 240 has to be far more then what anyone will find it for, after all his quote is way sky rocketed that it blows my pants off.
I know after I talked to him on his first idea for my two return pumps, he selected two pumps I couldn't trust for when the electric power is off for a matter of seconds if they would start right back up, for in the warmer months, I get many/often power flecks and some times it last for 5 seconds or more, which was why I selected and told him in a email that i wanted the external iwaki pumps.

I have no wish to do this bit cheap and not get what i would most desire to have, the total best in the SPS tanks equipment. When i first looked over his quote, i thought that he had to selected the best possible equipment, but i find now that he found me average equipment and giving my quotes for what would be for something far better.

Once i completed my research on his price quote, i will print everything and confront him personally, he took offensive when i told him his thoughts for his first return pumps idea was crap, to me he not behaves in the manner as if he was a true professional marine person, but like a kid who feelings were hurt because you called him a name or something, or stupid, for this is how he must really be taking it when i reject his ideas.

I could buy better and still it wouldn't cost as much as his quote does and he don`t even have a chiller, carbon, phosphate and calcium reactors and skimmer, and yet his quote is way higher then most.

I was calling around yesterday, and learn that he was maintenance a doctor office marine tank, the tank i was told is about 120 gal and he was charging the doctor $450 a month and this other store owner took over for far less. It seems that James always charges far more then anyone I could come across, but it also shows me that I to will need to be on my defensive even when i do look for a new person to do this, it seems i can never giving some one my total trust, its horrible.

Buddy

[7digits]

I think you could do without the uv water filter.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

7digits, I was hoping that you would saved me time on typing, im sorry you didn`t, but here are some figures and ideas on james quote and his thoughts to what equipment he quoted on. Without counting the LR or LS into the figures and a few other items as well. His quote has a over charge figure around $1,017.58 or more and if I was to count the LR & LS, the figure would top more then another $1,500 for here are some figures of my own.


The LR first, his quote is at $$6.99 per lb with his total of $2796.00, I can order from a company in Fla. LR that if ordering 200 lbs or more, they offer a huge discount at $2.99 a lb. amd if you total that with 400 lbs of LR, the cost would be $1,196.00 which has a over charge of $1,600 on the LR and the LS, his cost is 100 lbs for $125 and I can get for the same $125 225 lbs of LS and being the size of my tank, i would order an additional $50 for this company charges for a 45 lb box of LS, $25 and for $175 I could get over 300 lbs of LS. Crazy, isn`t it?


Also, the equipment he selected if you research each item are standard average equipment that I not want and his idea of a overflow HOB for the 40 gal QT, I certainly would never agree with that and that to his over charging what its worth and the total to what i can find, his over charging by $2,617.58 and the total to the lighting setup would be some addidtion over charges. For I have the MH bulbs his over charging me $132.03 and on the three ballast $279.00.


The Reef Optix 1 pendant and tempered lens (250wt.-3 times) his over charging me $327.03
The Hang on refugium( AquaFuge Hang-on Refugium) a over charge of $170.01. besides, the size this HOB is, it would do nothing for my 240


The Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph) he change what i wanted, i told him i want a Iwaki pump, the pump he selected is an oversea pump, it can be found only at a very few locations
Metal Halide 250 wt. 14000k (3 bulbs) his an extra charge of $132.03 then what the bulbs are worth
Filter media(for 125 sump) This he not know it himself, but its not going to happen.


Eevn the Hang-on overflow he pick for the 40 QT that i wanted a drilled tank and not any HOB equipment, his overcharging me $30.00 on this item

And we both know his over charging for his labor, i figure his over charging me by more then $3,000 if not $4,000 for a good number of items he quoted me on, is difficult to get some type of exact cost for them, but im sure his charging over board on them as well.

Do excuse if any misspelling

Buddy

[Parrothead]

Buddy,

Here is some pearls of wisdom and experience, stay away from florida rock, it is limestone that has sat in a rock farm for any unspecified amount of time, it is very heavy, very dense, not really what you want for a reef tank, also you are gonna get all sorts of hitchhikers in this rock, some you may want, others can be harmful, very harmful. Also this limestone is mined in quarries that are located in the same area's that they mine phosphate, phosphate and reeftanks equal disaster.

Also, the current emergency in the gulf(massive oil spill) where most of these farms are located, may have a direct effect on what is gonna come out of the gulf, you are saying this project is still several months down the road, I'm not sure I'd want rock that may have been polluted by this mess.

I dumped 80 lbs of the stuff last fall, the price is good, thats what got me, but it is not all it is cracked up to be. JMHO