PAR38's, 55 gallon tank.

[TuReal]

I have read many articles and forums on LED lighting and comparisons to more traditional lighting options. In my search for t5 lighting around 200 to 300 dollars lol, I came accross the PAR 38 option. It caught my eye as it is "longer lasting, runs cooler, and more cost effective over traditional lighting". So now im asking for your help, I'd like to avoid wastefull spending and dont mind DIY.

Ive read on other forums the ability to run Par38's over the top of 55 gallon tanks, around 24" deep. Some people have mention 4 to 6 of these lights will work, others have refused to consider this option. My tank will start out as FOWLR, but i know that eventually I am going to atleast want to keep softies.

So I am hoping you guys can offer some insight on PAR 38s. Is it actually possible and will it not only work but be the best option in my price range. all feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Original Fin]

I don't see why not, and I've considered it for my 55 too.
Here are the things to consider though:

-All par 38 bulbs are not equal. a lot of them are on the weak side. The good ones running crees go for upwards of $100 ea.
-you sort of get what you get in terms of blue/white color balance
-$400 to $600 to light that tank on Par 38's
-most of these lamps include a mixture of blues and whites per head, which means you can't run them independently to simulate dusk/dawn. This is where a traditional LED fixture has an advantage.

I do think that these work particularly well over small cubes though.

[TuReal]

Thanks Fin

Its tough picking out your first set of lights, ive been trying to find something versatile for a while now. I need to find lighting that will grow with me and my tank. . I was looking at the nova extreme pro, but not sure thats any better than what I have seen on ebay for a lower price (170645498080).

I like the idea of being able to have Par's to move around the tank if i have to and energy savings seems to be a major plus. Im just not sure what the best lighting for my tank is. My tech side is telling me get the par's but my conservative side is saying t5. uhhhg what to do.

[reefMe1]

I am running 2 Orphek Par38 LEDs over my corner bowfront I love them. Don't have to clean the glass on the front becuase they don't grow much algae and the light output is nice. Color is good and the growth has been good as long as I keep my params in check.

I took them our local clubs meeting when we did lighting comparisons for power usage and par. I am running just as much par as a 250w MH on the sandbed at a fraction of the power consumption. My two lights cost 1.26 a month to run at 11cent per Kwhr........

Buy good ones and you won't regret it. Stay away from the hardware store ones. They are all made with non-dimmable ballasts and aren't designed for high humidity environments.

[TuReal]

I am running 2 Orphek Par38 LEDs over my corner bowfront I love them. Don't have to clean the glass on the front becuase they don't grow much algae and the light output is nice. Color is good and the growth has been good as long as I keep my params in check.

I took them our local clubs meeting when we did lighting comparisons for power usage and par. I am running just as much par as a 250w MH on the sandbed at a fraction of the power consumption. My two lights cost 1.26 a month to run at 11cent per Kwhr........

Buy good ones and you won't regret it. Stay away from the hardware store ones. They are all made with non-dimmable ballasts and aren't designed for high humidity environments.

Thanks for the response. I was also curious and maybe some one could tell me. there is a guy on youtube running about 20 3watt leds that he says he paid about 7 dollars each on ebay and has running them for sometime with success. My plan was to buy 4 to 6 LED Par 38s. But it seems like alot of people pay more for items that just say they are for an aquarium, when they can buy the same product with out the aquarium label.

What is the difference between an aquarium LED and a regular LED? Why cant you just buy regular LEDs, design a hood that offers even lighting throughout the tank? Ive been searching all over online and havent found a straight answer.

[Original Fin]

I think these would be the pertinent factors, on order of importance:

1. Intensity. Higher wattage bulbs, like the three watters can penetrate deeper, but if your goal is only to light a shallow frag tank, then that might be overkill, and an array of one watters might do the job. Just like with halides and fluorescents, it's not just the rated power that dictates intensity. Optics, heat dissipation and stability of the drivers havea lot to do with it too.
PAR performance is the best metric for our application but unfortunately you won't see that in the sales literature. Many reef clubs have started doing this sort of comparison research for themselves. All that's required is the shared purchase of a (waterproof) PAR meter, and some fixtures with which to compare. If you want to get some good comparison data, contact some of the bigger reef clubs that are doing this, like DFWMAS.

2. Optics. All LED's have sweet spots, or hot spots if you will in terms of PAR intensity vs distance and angle. These sweet spots can be manipulated to some degree by the use of optics. Narrower optics are better suited to deeper penetration, but it's not something I advise guessing at. Most reputable reef lighting manufacturers should be able to tell you which optics work best with their products for a given depth.

3. Color. A white LED is a more or less a white LED in terms of the color it gives off, but the blues are not all created equal. Some are deeper and more intense, while others tend to wash out. As with fluorescents, the mixing of white and blue bulbs is mainly done to subjectively please the individuals eye. But actinics are not only about the color...they contribute to PAR too. Some much more than others.

[reefMe1]

I think these would be the pertinent factors, on order of importance:

1. Intensity. Higher wattage bulbs, like the three watters can penetrate deeper, but if your goal is only to light a shallow frag tank, then that might be overkill, and an array of one watters might do the job. Just like with halides and fluorescents, it's not just the rated power that dictates intensity. Optics, heat dissipation and stability of the drivers havea lot to do with it too.
PAR performance is the best metric for our application but unfortunately you won't see that in the sales literature. Many reef clubs have started doing this sort of comparison research for themselves. All that's required is the shared purchase of a (waterproof) PAR meter, and some fixtures with which to compare. If you want to get some good comparison data, contact some of the bigger reef clubs that are doing this, like DFWMAS.

Getting good coverage and the proper amount of PAR/PUR is what it's all about for corals. All of the factors that you listed above can affect the output of any given diode. My club just had a meeting last weekend that was about power consumption and at the same time we tested the PAR output of multiple lights. I don't know that PAR is the "best" when it comes to LEDs but that combined with knowledge of what the LED is actually putting out is probably the best we can do as private individuals. As for what the lights put out it is important to know the actual spectrograph of the fixture that you are using. This is difficult because very few companies offer this info up. CREE has the spectrographs for their diodes but again....once placed in a fixture with various components...things can change.

2. Optics. All LED's have sweet spots, or hot spots if you will in terms of PAR intensity vs distance and angle. These sweet spots can be manipulated to some degree by the use of optics. Narrower optics are better suited to deeper penetration, but it's not something I advise guessing at. Most reputable reef lighting manufacturers should be able to tell you which optics work best with their products for a given depth.

Very true.

3. Color. A white LED is a more or less a white LED in terms of the color it gives off, but the blues are not all created equal. Some are deeper and more intense, while others tend to wash out. As with fluorescents, the mixing of white and blue bulbs is mainly done to subjectively please the individuals eye. But actinics are not only about the color...they contribute to PAR too. Some much more than others.

I must respectfully disagree on this one. All White LEDs are not the same just as all blue LEDs are not the same. Again, look for the spectrographs. Think about a 6500k CFL (squiggly) bulb and a 9500k CFL. They are different colors....right? But they are both white. I can put one above my sump and grow Chaeto but not very well with the other one. You have got to know what the lights are putting into your tank. Most of the companies out there are using 6500k white and a lot of blue to make it look better. 15000k LEDs are more expensive to get and use. ALL light sources contribute PAR at some level...even moon lights. My Moon lights gave off 100 at the water level and 25 at the sand bed. I know...not much but it's still PAR.

[TuReal]

WOW!! LOVE THE FEEDBACK!!

Lots to digest! at the beginning of last week i was hoping to look at specs listed on a PAR38 see the lumens, watts and degrees then get creative and mount them above my tank. But the more i learn the more it looks like it may be much more indepth than my noob skills can handle at this time. I might just have to go with a standard t5 4 bulb, but i would much rather go LED.

On a side note i picked up one of the Par38's from ledwholesalers on ebay for about 50 bucks. I know they are not the best, but i figured worst case scenerio it will work for my fuge. and if it turns out to be junk ill add it to the collection, lol.

[Original Fin]

Reefme1, I've enjoyed our dialogue. I suppose you are right about the white lights too, at least in terms of growth potential. I was on a bit of a tangent about how it "looks", but growth potential trumps aesthetics. Sorry that I was critical of your loyalty to Orphek before...I had mistaken you for a shiller. Your contributions here are valued. Keep em coming. Tureal, when you get that Par 38, maybe try it out in the sump like you say. If you can, put a frag or two down there and see how they do. You never know.I

[reefMe1]

Reefme1, I've enjoyed our dialogue. I suppose you are right about the white lights too, at least in terms of growth potential. I was on a bit of a tangent about how it "looks", but growth potential trumps aesthetics. Sorry that I was critical of your loyalty to Orphek before...I had mistaken you for a shiller. Your contributions here are valued. Keep em coming. Tureal, when you get that Par 38, maybe try it out in the sump like you say. If you can, put a frag or two down there and see how they do. You never know.I

It's cool.....

As for the frag in the sump. I have a friend that grows zoas in his sump under a CFL. I have NOT been able to duplicate this.

Tureal, when you get that bulb....it's going to look dimmer that you expect and you will be discouraged.....don't be. That bulb is putting out more than you realize. you may have to go with a couple of them to get it up to what you would like but that's ok. I'm using a couple of the PR25s over my tank so it is what it is.

Send us a link so that we can see what you bought....

[reefMe1]

Here are the notes from my clubs meeting in which we tested Power consumption and PAR.

We had all the fixture 29 inches off the bottom, 12 inches above the water line. The tank used was an 18 inch by
18 inch by 18 inch JBJ AIO.

Power consumption was figured at 10hrs per day, 30 days, @ 11 cents per killowatt/hr

The first set of LED's DIY I beleive: Blues WL: 300, bottom: 130. Blues and whites WL: 500, bottom:200. I was
super impressed by these the energy consumption was minimal and they gave good coverage throught the tank.

The next set of Aquatic Life- T5's werent working correctly the notes I have are WWhites only WL:200, bottom:100
we did not record the power consumption because one of the ballasts was failing to fire and it threw off the
measurement.

Tek Light elite, 5 blue plus, 2 aquablue specials and 1 fiji purple, cost $13.20 per month to run. 4 Blues WL:
245, bottom:115. All 8 bulbs WL: 550-570, bottom: 220.

Elos Mini LEDs WL: 175, bottom 45

175 wt MH 15 k bulb I have it at $5.78 per month to run but nothing else. I think this one failed to restart or
something.

250 watt DE Pheonix WL: 240-250, bottom: 93. Cost $8.31 per month

Orphek PAR 38 LED 6 white/6 blue WL: 300, bottom: 80-90, .63 cents a month to run

Orphek PAR 38 LED 6 blue, 4 white and 2 UV WL: 370, bottom: 87 .63 cents a month to run

both Orphek bulbs (this is how the owner uses them over his tank) WL:700 Bottom:170 $1.26 to run

Orphek ML7 Moonlight 4 blue, 3 UV WL 100, bottom 25 This bulb cost less that 6 cents to run at 10 hrs per day
which you wouldn't.....
These ran on a standard 110 light bulb socket. No ballast or anything external.

[TuReal]

Dimmable PAR38 W+B LED Aquarium Reef Corals Grow Light | eBay


This is the Bulb i had purchased, I havent really settled on using it yet. Just ordered to see if it is worth buying 4 or 5. I still may settle on more conventional lighting.

[reefMe1]

Dimmable PAR38 W+B LED Aquarium Reef Corals Grow Light | eBay


This is the Bulb i had purchased, I havent really settled on using it yet. Just ordered to see if it is worth buying 4 or 5. I still may settle on more conventional lighting.

Two things I would be thinking about

30degree optics. Very very tight, it will be a spotlight.

It says 6- 16000k whites. I am suspect of that as most companies aren't able to offer that level of diode. Maybe though. It will be interesting to see what you think when it arrives. Keep us posted.

[TuReal]

Two things I would be thinking about

30degree optics. Very very tight, it will be a spotlight.

It says 6- 16000k whites. I am suspect of that as most companies aren't able to offer that level of diode. Maybe though. It will be interesting to see what you think when it arrives. Keep us posted.

I was suspect when i bought it, i thought the 30 degree was kind of tight and the 1watt leds. Ive been looking at the 3 watt par30 as well. I know in the future im going to keep anenome and from reading they are quite light demanding, so this light most likely wont work.

I will def. keep you posted!

[TuReal]

Two things I would be thinking about

30degree optics. Very very tight, it will be a spotlight.

It says 6- 16000k whites. I am suspect of that as most companies aren't able to offer that level of diode. Maybe though. It will be interesting to see what you think when it arrives. Keep us posted.

Ok, finnaly made it to the post office to p/u my light. I was shocked to see how well they packaged the bulb, it was in its own box with a foam holder and that box was in a much larger box with air packets. Ill givem an A+ for shipping.

I screwed it into a standard lamp, the remote and lights work as they should. Whites only, blues only, whites and blues together and dimming from remote. The light spread seems very tight and I figure I will have to get creative when mounting it over my refugium, since thats all i will be using it for. I Just purchased a set of T5s for the display tank as it just seems to make sense for me right now.

When my fuge is up and running, I will have a bunch of mineral mud with a cap of live sand. not sure what esle will be in there yet, but im sure ill need the light.