[RobG]

Well, my hood is 90% complete after this weekend -- just need to seal it, so I'm about to order my lighting and was curious if anyone has any last-minute ideas, advice or changes to this.

After considering looks, heat, costs and 100s of posts and debates about it, I'm planning on going with the following setup for my 90:

Dual 250W PFO (standard) ballast
Two Spiderlight reflectors
German 10K bulbs

4*55w PC actinics (Currently have JBJ setup only, going to remove the ballast etc... out of the JBJ hood to retro into the one I built).

Sound good?

[scubadude]

Sounds like a great setup....but if you really want growth why not do the DIY Iwasakis with the graybar ballast? you can save a few bux and you will have a bit more par for the corals....the only downside is that you wont have as blue of a tint to the tank....but I think if you made all those 4 pc's 03's then you would have a pleasing color to the tank....just my .02 Sorry if i threw ya off on the last minute

[RobG]

I was debating between the Iwasakis and the 10ks as my finalists.

I made the decision purely on looks and flexibility. I don't want to buy the Iwasaki MV ballast, decide it's too yellow, and then have to buy a new ballast to switch to a 10K bulb, so I figured the standard PFO gives me the most bulb flexibily.

I'm looking to get thrown off at the last minute

[scubadude]

Y not the 250w HQI's ? much more par then then regular mogul base

[RobG]

Straight answer: Money. HQI is more expensive, and requires the added complexity of a UV lense when trying to retro into a canopy.

[Ltspd]

All you need for the UV glass is regular tempared glass. I gave 40 for the 22 x 60 pc I need for mine. I am also in process of a complete DIY HQI setup.

Cost as follows
each LN elec ballast (250w mh) 139.00
Each HQI bracket and holder 19.99
Each HQI bulb 10kk 250w 85.00
Each reflector 29.00

So for a dual 250w HQI setup cost is 545.98

Now you would need some actinic effect for dusk/ dawn which can be accomplished with NO bulbs IMO, say (2) 40w's
Each 40w bulb 16.95
Each holder 9.75 (spacer may be extra)
ballast about 15.00 at HD (powers a 48" shop light)

So cost of this is 34.50 for (2) 48" 40w NO actinic bulbs.

Total light cost this DIY route is 580.48 plus the cost of the temepared glass.

All prices came from www.lampsnow.com

[golfish]

The standard PFO ballast will drive the Iwasaki bulbs brighter and whiter then the MV (EYE) ballast so you might want to try one of them later on down the road. The Iwasaki will give you MUCH MORE par then the 10K. Also, if you have your heart set on 10K's you should still go with the HQI ballast and use it to drive the mogul base bulbs, it will drive it better and brighter then the standard ballast.....

Mark

[Ltspd]

Originally posted by golfish
The Iwasaki will give you MUCH MORE par then the 10K.
Mark

That is true for standard Mogul socket 10kk's but untrue according to test on the HQI 10kk's. The HQI's will provide MORE par than the Iwasaki's in the 250w range.

Now, I currently use the Iwasaki's but will soon be switching over to the HQI's. I will not be using the "store bought" HQI's. I will be using them in a DIY hood that will provide good light coverage I hope. The single PFO HQI's are noted for poor light spread.

The reason is so I can provide my tank with strong light and still be appealing to me. I can do this currently with the Iwasaki's with strong actinic's to suit my taste. The 10kk's will give me the same look at less elec consumption overall. I shouldnt have have to run any or very little actinic's with the HQI 10kk's thus saving me the electricity that it took to run them.

Either way you go, the Iwasaki's or the HQI's you wont go wrong.

[golfish]

That is true for standard Mogul socket 10kk's but untrue according to test on the HQI 10kk's. The HQI's will provide MORE par than the Iwasaki's in the 250w range.

Paul,
Remember that the tests were done with out the UV shield. Its not as good as you think with the shield in place. I think they (guys at RC) pretty much figured it was a tie or close to it when you throw in the UV.


As far as I know ALL double ended HQI's are noted to have poor spread. Its also thought that the reason the HQI's have such good par is that the ligth is concentrated in a smaller area (Makes sense) I could raise my mini pendants up and get a wider spread but that would take away from the corals.



Your right about the color, The 10K's are a little better looking then the 6.5K's. I wish they made 250 watt double ended 20K bulb.


Mark

[Ironreef]

fwiw if you look at http://www.atlantisaquatic.com/lightingtest.html he's testing 400w hqi and 400w 6.5= same growth ect... The advantage of 6.5 was cheaper and faster growth but you give up color. But now if you aren't getting any better growth then you are only saving a few $$$ depending on how often you change bulbs. But most may change 12-14 mo anyway. What I'm getting at there maybe more than most par. I use Iwaski but I may try ushio to see for myself. But the nice thing of having a regular mh is I can use 6.5 and 10k. hqi doesn't give much more = magnetic 99.11 pfo hqi=105.7par. And it's been said hqi you may lose live of the bulb from burning higher so the par may lesson over time making it closer in par valuve. But that hasn't been tested as far as I know only said. So imo you can't go wrong with a regular pfo ballast.

[golfish]

Just to add to Ironreefs reply and throw in something good about double ended HQI's.....They say (I don't know who they are) that the double ended bulbs last longer then the mogul base bulbs.....You see Paul, I do have something good to say about them I like my HQI's, There just not what I had hoped for. Maybe its cause I'm used to em.......

[Ltspd]

Mark, You are the only person that I have ran into so far that has said anything bad about them???

I am one of the guys at RC thats been hashing the UV issue and the bulbs. Not a real secrect on the UV, its regular tempared glass. Its a long post but its worth the read.
http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/sho...threadid=32376
The UV issue is brought up around pages 4 or 5 I think. I spoke with several engineers about the whole thing (USHIO and Schott glass company)

The nice thing about my ballast is that I can power both types of bulbs, HQI and Mogul so I can swap from one style to the other rather easy. Yes, its easy for me to swap sockets As far as the spread ask me in a week or so. I am hoping with my design of th hood that mine will spread better than the single pendant. I know the people (Susan) who have the long hood are very pleased. She has a dual 250w, with the bulbs over the brace in a tank exactly like mine and the spread is execellent acorrding to her. Time will tell.

Like I said you wont go wrong with either the Iwasaki's or the HQI's IMO.

[scubadude]

Originally posted by Ltspd
Mark, You are the only person that I have ran into so far that has said anything bad about them???

I agree w/ Paul here Mark!

No offense to you bro, I have researched as much info as possible on these lights and the Iwasakis, and you seem to knock them every chance you get. I Love the lights im burning two of them on my new 220g and will have a third soon.....Everytime I see you talk about them you say the spread sux....well me and paul are talking strictly DIY....and its all a matter of figuring it out....Yes you may loose a tad bit of par by putting a UV shield, however these lights have great color (so you save $$ actinic)....Im not gonna even use actinic supplement.....I Have seen the Iwasakis in action and I have seen the HQI's in action buck for buck when effeciency comes down to it, I really dont see how you can beat them.....They are NEW especially to the US so they have some quirks to work out....and no companys sell all the parts as a retrofit kit (lampsnow.com sells it all cept the UV shield) Spread is all just a matter of designing your own reflector to meet your specific needs. Iwasakis are quick easy and good lights.....HQI can be hard only because there isnt as much info on it as there is with Iwasakis expensive or DIY, and IMO Better lighting

[RobG]

Woah! Didn't mean to bring up a monster debate... And I thought I had everything figured out.

One thing I'm very curious about:

The standard PFO ballast will drive the Iwasaki bulbs brighter and whiter then the MV (EYE) ballast so you might want to try one of them later on down the road.

If that's the case, why does everyone recommend the EYE ballasts for the Iwasakis? PFO makes a ballast specifically for them that doesn't work as well?

Very confused,

Rob

[Ltspd]

Rob, welcome to the reef world, We debate lights all the time.

Let me ask you 1 question. Are you handy? If so, and the Iwasaki route is what you want you can DIY very easy. Trust me (said the spider to the fly), If you are I can walk you thru the whole thing and save you money to boot. Lighting is THE most expensive part of the hobby, both at the start and monthly. Depending on your kwh charge you are looking at around 10/month to run a single 250w bulb. The same ballast that you buy inside the PFO can be gotten for about 25.00 each. You wont have a fancy case or switch, but thats easy to do. Let me know.

[golfish]

No offense to you bro

Your entitled to your opinon just like I am. I only said the light spread wasn't all that great. If that's bad then oh well. As far as the UV shield goes,that's not an option with these lights.

When it comes to color, that to is just an opinion. After using these lights for 8 months I would not say the color is great. Better then my 400 watt Iwasaki by far but not great.

If you guys are setting these lights up to spread out more then it only make sense that the par is not going to be as good as it would be in a mini pendant like I use, Right?

Paul,
I'm not the only one. I'm pretty sure John (JG) just switch to mogul base bulbs. MountainDewMan (I think that's how its spelled) just switch over to mogul base bulbs.


Other then saying the spread wasn't good I don't recall saying anything bad about my lights. I don't have anything great to say about them but I don't recall anything bad.....You guys want to refresh my memory

[Ltspd]

Originally posted by golfish

If you guys are setting these lights up to spread out more then it only make sense that the par is not going to be as good as it would be in a mini pendant like I use, Right?

Dont see your logic hear Mark. If I set my bulbs the same place as my current Iwasaki's its the same. Your poor light spread is due to the pendant IMO, and that is agreed upon by David G at RC (see my original link to that thread) The light is funnled by the housing itself, and I would imagine a mogual based bulb was set at the same distance it would produce similar results.

The only diffrence bewteen the 2 is the outer casing. I will be using a tempared glass bottom to my hood, but I am using that tempared glass bottom now with my Iwasaki's. Same diffrence, actually I am further reducing the 6500's by adding the "additional" glass. I did this after I reaschered the UV issue over at RC. Have you read that thread? The real issue IMO is splash from the tank water and Not the UV. Eric Borneman also chimmed in on the debate in his forum.
http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/sho...threadid=37990

Mark you entitled to your opinion just as the rest of us. You dont like them, others do

[SCETT316]

Hi Guys:
I spent weeks researching lighting options for my tank (and driving ppl crazy) and after taking everything into considertion I went w/ the Aquastarlight HQI fixture. All I can say IMO, I am very pleased with them, despite the position of the braces in my tank, the light spread is excellent. In fact I had to build an open top canopy in order to concentrate more of the light in the tank, cause the whole room was brightly lit, and it is a big room where I have my tank in.
The growth and health of my animals is very good also.
BTW I was over by Brian's from AtlanticAquatics a few weeks ago, and did see the tanks where he is conducting the different lighting test, the 10k is very pleasing to the eye, the 6500 are very yellow, therefore you would have to supplement with quite a bit of actinics to balance the color out making it more expensive to run.
JMHO.

[thezookeeper]

After reading all this it brings back fond memories of my search for lighting. When talking about the 400 watt Iwasaki's, yes they are yellow and need more actinic. I run the 250's on a DIY MV ballast and they are white light without actinics. I run normal output actinics because I like actinic. I researched the Iwasaki's and came to them as my choice. I did not research HQI's. I would say that dollar for dollar, the Iwasaki's are still my choice. I believe that if I upgrade to a bigger tank, I would still go with the Iwasaki's. For the cost effectiveness and for someone on a budget, I'd go with Iwasaki's. If cost is of no concern and you do the research, then the choice is yours. I don't really like the idea of the HQI's and UV issue. Even with the UV shield (regular glass), it still doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm sure they are fine lights. I've seen SCETT316's lights and it is a nice system. The Iwasaki's have been around a little longer and more info is available about them I believe. In any case, good luck with your decision.


Joanne

[Ltspd]

Joanne, I will agree that the 6500k's are the best and cheapest up front lighting for tanks. I am looking at the cost month to month and the savings over the long run. Without high powered actinic's to balance out to MY taste. The 10kk's will provide me with that pleasing to me color and still give me good kick. I wont have to run the actinic's while the mh's are on ( I hope ). Thus allowing me to add a 3rd mh bulb without increasing the power bill any more. Tank adds 70/month already and I am always looking to reduce without sacrificing quality.

I just wired up a freinds (Mentor in this hobby to me) light hood. He is using (3) 400w 6500k's and (6) 110w VHO actinic's. All over his 380g tank (total system is 650g) I was impressed on how good the 400w looked by themselves, UNTIL we hit them with (3) of the VHO's. I was then amazed at how yellow they were. He said it will be even better when he gets all 6 VHO's running. (IC ballast problem). This guy (mentor) has commented on how well he likes the HQI 10kk's, but is unable to produce that same color without HEAVY actinic supplementation. He said if he could have went to 400w HQI 10kk's he would, but they are not availbe according to him.

I am doing this DIY to prove that it can be done, at a resonalbe cost. But I enjoy challenges