few MH ?'s

wastedincome420 · 12-07-2001, 08:24 PM

Well I hope that I'm not asking too many "dumb" ?'s

I have some more questions about Metal halide lighting

A: Do you "have to" have some type of glass between the bulb and the water?? I heard something about UV rays coming from the bulb?

B: I hav a Oceanic tank 5ft long and 24" deep, (I plan to have atleast 4"DSB) How many MH do I need?? How many watts 250 or 400??

C: I was thinking about using PFO ballasts, any good?? Then for bulb choice I think 10k, who make the "whitest" bulb??

OK tis info might help: also will be using IceCap VHO light with MH, atleast 3 URI super atinic's on one ballast and maybe 2 URI daylights on another Ice. I really only want to run the MH for 1/3 of the lighting period.
When I was thinkin bout 250w or 400w I thouhgt about heat

I wonder how bad it would get if I try to use 400wX2(or 3)................
I dont want to build a new hood. I have a Oceanic hood (it has 4 removable top panels) that I figure I can slightly modify to add
MH

**Ninong** · 12-09-2001, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by wastedincome420

A: Do you "have to" have some type of glass between the bulb and the water?? I heard something about UV rays coming from the bulb?

The mogul base metal halide lamps have a borosilicate outer glass envelope that helps to shield excessive UV rays. Many hobbyists consider this adequate shielding. Some of the hobby authors (e.g., Dana Riddle, Robert Fenner, Julian Sprung) recommend additional shielding of tempered glass or some sort of plastic between the lamp and the tank's surface. The additional shielding would also prevent water splashing on the hot lamp, possibly causing it to explode--a real problem with double-ended HQI lamps because they burn at such a high temperature. There seems to be no consensus of opinion on this topic.

B: I have an Oceanic tank 5ft long and 24" deep, (I plan to have atleast 4"DSB) How many MH do I need?? How many watts 250 or 400??

You will need at least two metal halide lamps, but you could squeeze in three if you wanted to. Your choice of lamps depends on your personal choices. If you are planning on using a lot of VHO actinic supplementation, then consider 250w or 400w 6500K Iwasaki metal halides to provide the most PAR possible for intense SPS and Tridacnid clams. Some people might prefer the appearance of 400w 10,000K metal halides, or even two 400w 10,000K metal halides with one 400w 20,000K metal halide in the middle.

C: I was thinking about using PFO ballasts, any good?? Then for bulb choice I think 10k, who make the "whitest" bulb??

As far as 10,000K mogul base lamps are concerned, most folks choose either AB-10000 (AB-Aqualine) or Ushio/BLV 10,000K. The AB-10000 lamp is actually 13,000 Kelvin and the Ushio-BLV 10,000K has been measured as approximately 12,000K. Both are a crisp white color with only the slightest hint of blue. Please do NOT confuse either of these high quality lamps with the ALS 12,000K metal halide lamp which is weak, very bluish and suffers from a high rate of infant mortality. Many people are pleased with PFO ballasts.

OK this info might help: also will be using IceCap VHO light with MH, at least 3 URI super atinic's on one ballast and maybe 2 URI daylights on another Ice. I really only want to run the MH for 1/3 of the lighting period.

I would recommend that you run the metal halides for 3/4 of the lighting period instead of only 1/3. Light intensities in the tropics are pretty intense within an hour of dawn. You might consider using fewer VHOs, expecially if you are going with 10,000K metal halides instead of 6500K.

When I was thinkin bout 250w or 400w I thouhgt about heat
I wonder how bad it would get if I try to use 400wX2(or 3)................

Three 400w metal halides would put out a LOT of heat. This is the part where you start making compromises to fit the reality of your situation. Are you going to have enough height in your hood, etc. You may have to rethink this whole thing to fit your situation. You might even want to consider 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps, but these are tricky to DIY.

Good luck,

Ninong

wastedincome420 · 12-11-2001, 07:55 PM

Hey thanks for the tips

The way my hood is now (the way I bought it) it's settup to take 4 48" bulbs staggered. They are mounted bout 2 inches from water level.
Well here is what I have for a hood, Oceanic that is 61"x18 1/2" and the top is 7" from water level. It has 4 removable top panels, so I guess I could build a "add on" inorder to house the MH lights.
So whatever lighting I go with needs to in/on/under this hood.
I want to redo the lighting in order to add MH and still keep some of the VHO.
I also want to keep using the two Ice Cap 660's that I have

And plan to use PFO MH ballast's........Thats my only guidelines, Now I would like to see what type of settup I YOU think would be best (One more guide line, I like to have a blueish/purpleish tint NOT YELLOW)
So would like to hear your comments on
A: How much VHO and how far should the bulbs be from the water??

B: How many/which type VHO bulbs (atinic/daylight)

C: Should I use 250w or 400w MH???

D: 65K lwasaki or 10KUshio or Aqualine or 20k ???

E: How far from the water should the MH bulbs be??

Well that should do for now feel free to add anything

**Ninong** · 12-11-2001, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by wastedincome420

The way my hood is now (the way I bought it) it's settup to take 4 48" bulbs staggered. They are mounted bout 2 inches from water level.

Probably takes up a lot of space, front-to-back.

Well here is what I have for a hood, Oceanic that is 61"x18 1/2" and the top is 7" from water level. It has 4 removable top panels, so I guess I could build a "add on" inorder to house the MH lights.

Standard useless Oceanic cap. Not very easy to add metal halides to these as they are not really tall enough. It will be difficult to say the least.

I also want to keep using the two Ice Cap 660's that I have

You have more Ice Cap 660's than you really need. A single 660 will run four 110w VHOs.

And plan to use PFO MH ballast's........Thats my only guidelines, Now I would like to see what type of settup I YOU think would be best (One more guide line, I like to have a blueish/purpleish tint NOT YELLOW)

Avoid the 6500K Iwasaki metal halide lamps so that you will not be disappointed in the color.

So would like to hear your comments on
A: How much VHO and how far should the bulbs be from the water??

If you are determined to squeeze in metal halide lamps in this setup, you do not need more than four VHOs, at the most (2" to 4" from the water).

B: How many/which type VHO bulbs (actinic/daylight)

URI Super Actinic and Actinic White (1/2 of each, or all Super Actinic).

C: Should I use 250w or 400w MH???

I don't think you can fit 400w MH lamps in there. You may have a difficult time fitting 250w MH lamps unless you go with HQI double-ended lamps, and that's a tricky DIY setup. Maybe you can actually mount something on top of the hood, so to speak, rather than inside it. I'm not sure what your access would be, however.

D: 65K lwasaki or 10KUshio or Aqualine or 20k ???

Stay away from the Iwasaki 6500K lamps if you are concerned about color. Ushio/BLV and AB-Aqualine are both good choices. The 400w 20,000K Radium lamps are expensive and need to be replaced every 6 - 9 months. There are 150w 20,000K HQI double-ended lamps available that are nice and small. This would only be a consideration if you are planning on two 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps and wanted to add a single 150w 20,000K HQI double-ended lamp in the middle because you had extra money left over.

E: How far from the water should the MH bulbs be??

Far enough not to get splashed, far enough not to add too much heat to the water, etc. So it all depends. Naturally you would need more distance for 400w lamps than for 250w lamps. You probably can't do 400w lamps for this reason. A problem you will have with 250w HQI double-ended lamps is that you really need to mount these about 9" above the water to get proper light spread. Looks like you will probably end up having to go with 250w 10,000K MH lamps, if you can fit them in there.

Well that should do for now feel free to add anything

Pray that someone else who has the exact same canopy as you do (factory Oceanic) sees this thread and tells you what they were, or were NOT, able to do with it.

Good luck,

Ninong

wastedincome420 · 12-12-2001, 05:04 PM

Thanks again Ninong

Well i think your right about trying to add MH's under te stock hood

But, Iwas thinking about ading on to the stock one like you had mentioned. What I was thinking was, to build another section to house the MH. Kinda build another hood then mount some hinges on the back of both so that i cn "flip up" the top section in order to feed,add Lr, etc. What do ya think??? I figure this way the MH bulbs will be atleast 7-8" from the water level, I could make the 2nd hood taller inorder to have the MH 10"+ From the water
Also thanks for telling me bout the lwaski's

I'd hate to waste $$ by buying a bulb w/ a color thet I'd hate. Ya I think that I can get away with using only one 660. Maybe I'll sell one inorder to buy the MH I want

Keep the tips rolling

Mark

**Ninong** · 12-12-2001, 06:50 PM

Check out these pics from Playfair's site for ideas. In fact, check out his entire site, it is excellent!

http://mistressreef.homestead.com/

Ninong

12-07-2001, 08:24 PM	#1
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	few MH ?'s Well I hope that I'm not asking too many "dumb" ?'s I have some more questions about Metal halide lighting A: Do you "have to" have some type of glass between the bulb and the water?? I heard something about UV rays coming from the bulb? B: I hav a Oceanic tank 5ft long and 24" deep, (I plan to have atleast 4"DSB) How many MH do I need?? How many watts 250 or 400?? C: I was thinking about using PFO ballasts, any good?? Then for bulb choice I think 10k, who make the "whitest" bulb?? OK tis info might help: also will be using IceCap VHO light with MH, atleast 3 URI super atinic's on one ballast and maybe 2 URI daylights on another Ice. I really only want to run the MH for 1/3 of the lighting period. When I was thinkin bout 250w or 400w I thouhgt about heat I wonder how bad it would get if I try to use 400wX2(or 3)................ I dont want to build a new hood. I have a Oceanic hood (it has 4 removable top panels) that I figure I can slightly modify to add MH

12-09-2001, 11:20 AM	#2
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,330	Re: few MH ?'s Originally posted by wastedincome420 A: Do you "have to" have some type of glass between the bulb and the water?? I heard something about UV rays coming from the bulb? The mogul base metal halide lamps have a borosilicate outer glass envelope that helps to shield excessive UV rays. Many hobbyists consider this adequate shielding. Some of the hobby authors (e.g., Dana Riddle, Robert Fenner, Julian Sprung) recommend additional shielding of tempered glass or some sort of plastic between the lamp and the tank's surface. The additional shielding would also prevent water splashing on the hot lamp, possibly causing it to explode--a real problem with double-ended HQI lamps because they burn at such a high temperature. There seems to be no consensus of opinion on this topic. B: I have an Oceanic tank 5ft long and 24" deep, (I plan to have atleast 4"DSB) How many MH do I need?? How many watts 250 or 400?? You will need at least two metal halide lamps, but you could squeeze in three if you wanted to. Your choice of lamps depends on your personal choices. If you are planning on using a lot of VHO actinic supplementation, then consider 250w or 400w 6500K Iwasaki metal halides to provide the most PAR possible for intense SPS and Tridacnid clams. Some people might prefer the appearance of 400w 10,000K metal halides, or even two 400w 10,000K metal halides with one 400w 20,000K metal halide in the middle. C: I was thinking about using PFO ballasts, any good?? Then for bulb choice I think 10k, who make the "whitest" bulb?? As far as 10,000K mogul base lamps are concerned, most folks choose either AB-10000 (AB-Aqualine) or Ushio/BLV 10,000K. The AB-10000 lamp is actually 13,000 Kelvin and the Ushio-BLV 10,000K has been measured as approximately 12,000K. Both are a crisp white color with only the slightest hint of blue. Please do NOT confuse either of these high quality lamps with the ALS 12,000K metal halide lamp which is weak, very bluish and suffers from a high rate of infant mortality. Many people are pleased with PFO ballasts. OK this info might help: also will be using IceCap VHO light with MH, at least 3 URI super atinic's on one ballast and maybe 2 URI daylights on another Ice. I really only want to run the MH for 1/3 of the lighting period. I would recommend that you run the metal halides for 3/4 of the lighting period instead of only 1/3. Light intensities in the tropics are pretty intense within an hour of dawn. You might consider using fewer VHOs, expecially if you are going with 10,000K metal halides instead of 6500K. When I was thinkin bout 250w or 400w I thouhgt about heat I wonder how bad it would get if I try to use 400wX2(or 3)................ Three 400w metal halides would put out a LOT of heat. This is the part where you start making compromises to fit the reality of your situation. Are you going to have enough height in your hood, etc. You may have to rethink this whole thing to fit your situation. You might even want to consider 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps, but these are tricky to DIY. Good luck, Ninong

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12-11-2001, 07:55 PM	#3
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Hey thanks for the tips The way my hood is now (the way I bought it) it's settup to take 4 48" bulbs staggered. They are mounted bout 2 inches from water level. Well here is what I have for a hood, Oceanic that is 61"x18 1/2" and the top is 7" from water level. It has 4 removable top panels, so I guess I could build a "add on" inorder to house the MH lights. So whatever lighting I go with needs to in/on/under this hood. I want to redo the lighting in order to add MH and still keep some of the VHO. I also want to keep using the two Ice Cap 660's that I have And plan to use PFO MH ballast's........Thats my only guidelines, Now I would like to see what type of settup I YOU think would be best (One more guide line, I like to have a blueish/purpleish tint NOT YELLOW) So would like to hear your comments on A: How much VHO and how far should the bulbs be from the water?? B: How many/which type VHO bulbs (atinic/daylight) C: Should I use 250w or 400w MH??? D: 65K lwasaki or 10KUshio or Aqualine or 20k ??? E: How far from the water should the MH bulbs be?? Well that should do for now feel free to add anything

12-11-2001, 08:47 PM	#4
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,330	Originally posted by wastedincome420 The way my hood is now (the way I bought it) it's settup to take 4 48" bulbs staggered. They are mounted bout 2 inches from water level. Probably takes up a lot of space, front-to-back. Well here is what I have for a hood, Oceanic that is 61"x18 1/2" and the top is 7" from water level. It has 4 removable top panels, so I guess I could build a "add on" inorder to house the MH lights. Standard useless Oceanic cap. Not very easy to add metal halides to these as they are not really tall enough. It will be difficult to say the least. I also want to keep using the two Ice Cap 660's that I have You have more Ice Cap 660's than you really need. A single 660 will run four 110w VHOs. And plan to use PFO MH ballast's........Thats my only guidelines, Now I would like to see what type of settup I YOU think would be best (One more guide line, I like to have a blueish/purpleish tint NOT YELLOW) Avoid the 6500K Iwasaki metal halide lamps so that you will not be disappointed in the color. So would like to hear your comments on A: How much VHO and how far should the bulbs be from the water?? If you are determined to squeeze in metal halide lamps in this setup, you do not need more than four VHOs, at the most (2" to 4" from the water). B: How many/which type VHO bulbs (actinic/daylight) URI Super Actinic and Actinic White (1/2 of each, or all Super Actinic). C: Should I use 250w or 400w MH??? I don't think you can fit 400w MH lamps in there. You may have a difficult time fitting 250w MH lamps unless you go with HQI double-ended lamps, and that's a tricky DIY setup. Maybe you can actually mount something on top of the hood, so to speak, rather than inside it. I'm not sure what your access would be, however. D: 65K lwasaki or 10KUshio or Aqualine or 20k ??? Stay away from the Iwasaki 6500K lamps if you are concerned about color. Ushio/BLV and AB-Aqualine are both good choices. The 400w 20,000K Radium lamps are expensive and need to be replaced every 6 - 9 months. There are 150w 20,000K HQI double-ended lamps available that are nice and small. This would only be a consideration if you are planning on two 250w 10,000K HQI double-ended lamps and wanted to add a single 150w 20,000K HQI double-ended lamp in the middle because you had extra money left over. E: How far from the water should the MH bulbs be?? Far enough not to get splashed, far enough not to add too much heat to the water, etc. So it all depends. Naturally you would need more distance for 400w lamps than for 250w lamps. You probably can't do 400w lamps for this reason. A problem you will have with 250w HQI double-ended lamps is that you really need to mount these about 9" above the water to get proper light spread. Looks like you will probably end up having to go with 250w 10,000K MH lamps, if you can fit them in there. Well that should do for now feel free to add anything Pray that someone else who has the exact same canopy as you do (factory Oceanic) sees this thread and tells you what they were, or were NOT, able to do with it. Good luck, Ninong

12-12-2001, 05:04 PM	#5
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Thanks again Ninong Well i think your right about trying to add MH's under te stock hood But, Iwas thinking about ading on to the stock one like you had mentioned. What I was thinking was, to build another section to house the MH. Kinda build another hood then mount some hinges on the back of both so that i cn "flip up" the top section in order to feed,add Lr, etc. What do ya think??? I figure this way the MH bulbs will be atleast 7-8" from the water level, I could make the 2nd hood taller inorder to have the MH 10"+ From the water Also thanks for telling me bout the lwaski's I'd hate to waste $$ by buying a bulb w/ a color thet I'd hate. Ya I think that I can get away with using only one 660. Maybe I'll sell one inorder to buy the MH I want Keep the tips rolling Mark

12-12-2001, 06:50 PM	#6
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,330	Check out these pics from Playfair's site for ideas. In fact, check out his entire site, it is excellent! http://mistressreef.homestead.com/ Ninong

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