Help

ReeFGeeK · 02-08-2002, 06:50 PM

Hi i need to upgrade my lighting badly i have now 4x55 watt PC's definently not enough but hey i was a poor beginer listening to my LFS so i was thinking maybe an HQI set up not sure what would work best. Ill give you the specs and you can recomend

My tank is a oceanic 150 gallon tank, i have all soft and LPs corals now and will probably stick with them for now but would like the ability to keep SPS/clams in the tank if i wanted so what is you recomendation for lighting my tank?

- ReeFGeeK-

**golfish** · 02-08-2002, 07:10 PM

I would go with 2x250 watt Iwasakis mounted in 24" PFO reflectors.

This way you can mount 2 of your PC's (actinics) in each reflector.

**Ninong** · 02-08-2002, 08:15 PM

Golfish,

An Oceanic 150g tank is 72"L x 18"W x 28"H, unlike your 150g tank.

Ninong

**Ninong** · 02-08-2002, 08:28 PM

ReeFGeeK,

I would only recommend going with HQI if you plan on getting a ready-made fixture, such as the AB-Aqualine Aquaspacelight 6-ft long fixture with 3*250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps plus 4*24w PC actinics. If you already have an Oceanic cap on your tank, this would require you to open up the top somehow so that the fixture could be suspended above the exposed top of the canopy. This fixture would be more than adequate for your tank. However there are a couple of adventurous types on the board who have gone the DIY route with HQI DE lamps. Here is a DIY HQI DE lamp setup: HQI Light comparision

Any other option will require you to pretty much completely rebuild your canopy if it is a standard Oceanic canopy or start over with a new custom built canopy. The Oceanic canopies are not tall enough for metal halide lighting.

Other possibilities would be to consider three 250w or 400w 6500K Iwasaki metal halide lamps with either your present 4*55w PC's for actinic supplementation or VHO actinic supplementation or 400w 10,000K metal halides with actinic supplementation. You would need at least two ventilation fans built into the canopy.

Ninong

Rin · 02-08-2002, 08:45 PM

The Iwasakis are a really good choice. But I don't know if mounting them in an Oceanic hood is a good idea. If you're prepared to spend the money or if you're handy with wood, you may want to also consider a different hood design along with your lighting choice.

JMO,

ReeFGeeK · 02-08-2002, 10:21 PM

Hi i looked at the AB setups and there alittle out of my range i plan on using my oceanic cap but i plano to rebuild it alittle and hang the actuall canopy from the ceiling i will put fans on each end if i need if this opens more possibilited let me know.

ReeFGeeK

**golfish** · 02-08-2002, 11:46 PM

You can't go wrong with Iwasaki's.......I use HQI's, IMO, there over rated......

ReeFGeeK · 02-09-2002, 12:20 AM

ok with a retro kit why are 400watters only 1dollar more then 250watters? I guess since thy are only one dollar more i should go with them? Or would 250's be enough?

ReeFGeeK

Ltspd · 02-09-2002, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by golfish
You can't go wrong with Iwasaki's.......I use HQI's, IMO, there over rated......

So are the Euroreef skimmers

Sorry Mark, couldnt resist.

I think either one of the bulbs will be fine provided you are willing to heavily actinic the Iwaski's. I am concerned about the Oceanic hood and the heat issue.

IME, the HQI's are not as hot as the Iwaski's

**golfish** · 02-09-2002, 10:46 AM

There's a BIG diff in heat when you step up to 400's. My tank has no problem with the (over rated) HQI's on. When the 400 watt Iwasaki fires up, so does the heat.

Quote:

So are the Euroreef skimmers

Sorry Mark, couldnt resist.

Now Paul, You still upset about making the mistake and NOT getting a ER m

or, are you going to tell us that old story that's been told a million times for hundreds of years

I can make the claim HQI's are over rated because I use em

ReeFGeeK · 02-09-2002, 11:22 AM

I dont see why there will be a heat issue with the hood cause im going to hang the hood like one would hang a fixture so the hood wont be on the tank now heat and electricity consumption is my next problem i cant afford a chiller and dont want to be paying a high electric bill so what are the recomendations?

ReeFGeeK

Ltspd · 02-09-2002, 11:24 AM

I have also used both the Iwasaki 250w and the HQi and I can tell you the HQI blows them out of the water in both color and performance!!! See Sanjay's report in the 2002 annual

No, I made the right move on skimmers

**golfish** · 02-09-2002, 11:28 AM

What are you saying

You got to have lots of light so you can heat up the tank, so you can cool it down with a chiller

Your funny Paul

ReeFGeeK · 02-09-2002, 11:54 AM

Ive been looking what if i went with the 400 watt eballast with the 20K radium bulbs would this be a good set up for my tank im only going to do two for now and then later add another. Im going to use the spider light reflectors tell me what you think

Rin · 02-09-2002, 02:50 PM

Reefgeek,

You should be fine with either the 250 or 400 if you suspend them over the tank in such a way that allows good air-flow between the bulb and the water.

Radiant heat is still going to heat up that water. The trick is to get good evaporation to keep the water below 80.

Iwasaki bulbs are hot mothers.

ReeFGeeK · 02-09-2002, 02:58 PM

After everything everyone has said it seems as if HQI is the best way to go to deal with heat. Umm is the any type of retro for HQi?

ReeFGeeK

Ltspd · 02-09-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by golfish
What are you saying You got to have lots of light so you can heat up the tank, so you can cool it down with a chiller

Your funny Paul

Mark, you lost me here bud. I dont run a chiller, and no longer have to run fans with my HQI's and I have more halides now! Best move I have made in this hobby so far

Of corse I am getting ready to instal 2 of the 3 seaswirls soon.

**Ninong** · 02-09-2002, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReeFGeeK
After everything everyone has said it seems as if HQI is the best way to go to deal with heat. Umm is the any type of retro for HQi?

ReeFGeeK

I haven't seen any HQI retro kits. Some people have purchased individual mini-pendants (PFO) and then mounted them inside their canopy but this can be more expensive than purchasing a single ready-made fixture. Talk to Ltspd about where he purchased his HQI stuff because his setup is DIY.

You can get an all-in-one Aquaspacelight fixture with 3*250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps plus 4*24w Osram PC actinics on a separate power cord for $1099. Don't forget that that price includes all of those lamps, which is a value of about $400, plus the enclosed ballasts. If you were to build the same thing yourself, by the time you get through buying the lamps and ballasts, you wouldn't save very much.

I wouldn't bother with those little mini-pendants if I were you. They cost too much when you add up the total price and some people are not exactly thrilled with theirs.

Maybe they would be happier if they had a really nice HQI fixture.

Ninong

**golfish** · 02-09-2002, 07:19 PM

Boy Paul, you sure are on the defense lately......Is Ninong starting to getting to ya

Quote:

What are you saying You got to have lots of light so you can heat up the tank, so you can cool it down with a chiller

I was joking with Geek about how some of us (not you, not me) heat the water up with our lights and then spend the same amount of energy cooling it down ,Relax

I don't care much for the way a suspended canopy looks so I don't use one. I agree their a much better choice if heat is an issue...

Ironreef · 02-09-2002, 07:55 PM

fwiw Sanjays test was 150hqi with a reflector. And compares them with 400w without a reflector. Stating also a reflector can increase par 75%. other test show Iwaski having more par than hqi 250 double end= sanjays test .iwaski 130 and 250 hqi was what i forget 120par. So all those test imo aren't definates as he evens says there accuracy can be 20% off. i doubt a 150 hqi double can keep up with a 400w hqi. mogul ...IMo no comparasion. But if you look at the spectral output of 150,250,and 400w hqi they are pretty close in the 400-450 range but all the dedicated sps tanks in pictures in person always looked best with 400w. My point is reguardless of what lighting you use I've seen nice tanks with all kinds it mostly preferance but there is a diff in bulbs. i would only get german or iwaski(japanese) imo. 400w may use alot of power. And you may not need them if you only are going to keep softies and lps. You still can have sps/clams with 250w. You can use 250hqi and use mogul bulbs and diy it will be cheaper and IMO is still as good as double end. FWIW as Mountain dew man he uses one of each in his 75g sps tank. He stared with double end and added a mogul. reason why? Dunno maybe he didn't see a diff? Cost of bulb maybe a factor also Iwaski is alot cheaper. if your not sure wanna save $$ you can get a 250w not hqi and you can run all bulbs but the 10k will run @10% less. its gonna be a hard choice but I would get 250w unless you are having a dedicated sps tank then I would go for 400w JMO

02-08-2002, 06:50 PM	#1
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	Help Hi i need to upgrade my lighting badly i have now 4x55 watt PC's definently not enough but hey i was a poor beginer listening to my LFS so i was thinking maybe an HQI set up not sure what would work best. Ill give you the specs and you can recomend My tank is a oceanic 150 gallon tank, i have all soft and LPs corals now and will probably stick with them for now but would like the ability to keep SPS/clams in the tank if i wanted so what is you recomendation for lighting my tank? - ReeFGeeK-

02-08-2002, 08:45 PM	#5
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	The Iwasakis are a really good choice. But I don't know if mounting them in an Oceanic hood is a good idea. If you're prepared to spend the money or if you're handy with wood, you may want to also consider a different hood design along with your lighting choice. JMO, __________________ -Todd

02-09-2002, 11:24 AM	#12
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	I have also used both the Iwasaki 250w and the HQi and I can tell you the HQI blows them out of the water in both color and performance!!! See Sanjay's report in the 2002 annual No, I made the right move on skimmers __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-09-2002, 11:54 AM	#14
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	eballast+20Kradium Ive been looking what if i went with the 400 watt eballast with the 20K radium bulbs would this be a good set up for my tank im only going to do two for now and then later add another. Im going to use the spider light reflectors tell me what you think

02-09-2002, 02:50 PM	#15
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	Reefgeek, You should be fine with either the 250 or 400 if you suspend them over the tank in such a way that allows good air-flow between the bulb and the water. Radiant heat is still going to heat up that water. The trick is to get good evaporation to keep the water below 80. Iwasaki bulbs are hot mothers. __________________ -Todd

02-08-2002, 07:10 PM	#2
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	I would go with 2x250 watt Iwasakis mounted in 24" PFO reflectors. This way you can mount 2 of your PC's (actinics) in each reflector.

02-08-2002, 08:15 PM	#3
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	Golfish, An Oceanic 150g tank is 72"L x 18"W x 28"H, unlike your 150g tank. Ninong

02-08-2002, 08:28 PM	#4
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 20,691	ReeFGeeK, I would only recommend going with HQI if you plan on getting a ready-made fixture, such as the AB-Aqualine Aquaspacelight 6-ft long fixture with 3250w 10,000K HQI DE lamps plus 424w PC actinics. If you already have an Oceanic cap on your tank, this would require you to open up the top somehow so that the fixture could be suspended above the exposed top of the canopy. This fixture would be more than adequate for your tank. However there are a couple of adventurous types on the board who have gone the DIY route with HQI DE lamps. Here is a DIY HQI DE lamp setup: HQI Light comparision Any other option will require you to pretty much completely rebuild your canopy if it is a standard Oceanic canopy or start over with a new custom built canopy. The Oceanic canopies are not tall enough for metal halide lighting. Other possibilities would be to consider three 250w or 400w 6500K Iwasaki metal halide lamps with either your present 4*55w PC's for actinic supplementation or VHO actinic supplementation or 400w 10,000K metal halides with actinic supplementation. You would need at least two ventilation fans built into the canopy. Ninong

02-08-2002, 10:21 PM	#6
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	Hi i looked at the AB setups and there alittle out of my range i plan on using my oceanic cap but i plano to rebuild it alittle and hang the actuall canopy from the ceiling i will put fans on each end if i need if this opens more possibilited let me know. ReeFGeeK

02-08-2002, 11:46 PM	#7
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	You can't go wrong with Iwasaki's.......I use HQI's, IMO, there over rated......

02-09-2002, 12:20 AM	#8
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	ok with a retro kit why are 400watters only 1dollar more then 250watters? I guess since thy are only one dollar more i should go with them? Or would 250's be enough? ReeFGeeK

02-09-2002, 11:22 AM	#11
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	I dont see why there will be a heat issue with the hood cause im going to hang the hood like one would hang a fixture so the hood wont be on the tank now heat and electricity consumption is my next problem i cant afford a chiller and dont want to be paying a high electric bill so what are the recomendations? ReeFGeeK

02-09-2002, 11:28 AM	#13
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,943	What are you saying You got to have lots of light so you can heat up the tank, so you can cool it down with a chiller Your funny Paul

02-09-2002, 02:58 PM	#16
ReeFGeeK Just Moved In Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 23	After everything everyone has said it seems as if HQI is the best way to go to deal with heat. Umm is the any type of retro for HQi? ReeFGeeK

02-09-2002, 07:55 PM	#20
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	fwiw Sanjays test was 150hqi with a reflector. And compares them with 400w without a reflector. Stating also a reflector can increase par 75%. other test show Iwaski having more par than hqi 250 double end= sanjays test .iwaski 130 and 250 hqi was what i forget 120par. So all those test imo aren't definates as he evens says there accuracy can be 20% off. i doubt a 150 hqi double can keep up with a 400w hqi. mogul ...IMo no comparasion. But if you look at the spectral output of 150,250,and 400w hqi they are pretty close in the 400-450 range but all the dedicated sps tanks in pictures in person always looked best with 400w. My point is reguardless of what lighting you use I've seen nice tanks with all kinds it mostly preferance but there is a diff in bulbs. i would only get german or iwaski(japanese) imo. 400w may use alot of power. And you may not need them if you only are going to keep softies and lps. You still can have sps/clams with 250w. You can use 250hqi and use mogul bulbs and diy it will be cheaper and IMO is still as good as double end. FWIW as Mountain dew man he uses one of each in his 75g sps tank. He stared with double end and added a mogul. reason why? Dunno maybe he didn't see a diff? Cost of bulb maybe a factor also Iwaski is alot cheaper. if your not sure wanna save $$ you can get a 250w not hqi and you can run all bulbs but the 10k will run @10% less. its gonna be a hard choice but I would get 250w unless you are having a dedicated sps tank then I would go for 400w JMO

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